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Ovation of the Seas Pax Possibly Injured in Volcanic Eruption

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On 12/10/2019 at 1:17 AM, Trevor Fountain said:

There seems to be conflicting reports on how many people are missing. The BBC state 47 people were on the Island, but in the same report they provide a link provided by the Red Cross, which indicates many more.

https://familylinks.icrc.org/new-zealand/en/Pages/search-persons.aspx

The boat the tour company used to bring people to the island can only hold 49 people max., but they had 47 on this day. They possibly they break this up into two groups of approx. 24-25 I have heard.  Of these 47, 8 have died, and 8 more are missing and presumed dead and still on the island. 28 are still in the hospital and of these, 23 are in critical condition, with burns likely over 80% of their bodies, which sadly isn't hopeful. That means only 3 are not in a hospital, and only another 5 are not in critical condition in the hospital. Its not a great situation.

 

I have heard, but can't verify, of the 47 on the island, 38 were from the cruise ship. The ones that weren't were guides or those that booked outside of the cruise ship.

 

There were also 4 that took a helicopter to the island, plus a pilot. They escaped by boat, but its unclear if they were part of the 47. They weren't from the cruise ship.

 

 

Edited by ano
additions

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I wonder how the captain and his crew are doing? I hope royal is supporting them as much as possible. It must be a very trying time for each and everyone of them.

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1 hour ago, mugtech said:

Wonder if any excursions will be cancelled at Naples.

There was an incident a few years ago at Vesuvius when tourists got too close to the crater. I believe they now have restrictions in place

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2 hours ago, mugtech said:

Wonder if any excursions will be cancelled at Naples.

What about Santorini. The ships birth within the caldera!

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9 hours ago, BND said:

So, now Royal is cancelling excursions that have anything to do with volcanoes or apparently even near them.  St Lucia and St Kitts both have volcanoes.   I mean islands are usually formed by volcanic activity so there are several in the Caribbean and Hawaii.

 

In the wake of this natural disaster one concept that is emerging is how some people have the expectation that a cruise line is responsible for their safety from the moment they board on day one to the moment they debark on the last day.  That bubble of safety it seems is believed to follow them on land.  Right, wrong or the actual legal stance are one thing, expectations are another matter.  

 

Recently a vehicle accident claimed lives on Belize.   The fact they booked their tour privately was an important fact that changed how that story was followed on social media and how it evolved in the news media.

 

It's likely that all cruise lines are watching as this evolves and they all may stop offering excursions with anything other than a low risk present on them.  In that case you'll have to book some tours directly with local tour operators as many people do already.  

 

324665260_RCIShoreExVolcanoCx.thumb.jpeg.7a95b5b30fbf33c95b47fa523d562131.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

In the wake of this natural disaster one concept that is emerging is how some people have the expectation that a cruise line is responsible for their safety from the moment they board on day one to the moment they debark on the last day.  That bubble of safety it seems is believed to follow them on land.  Right, wrong or the actual legal stance are one thing, expectations are another matter.  

 

Recently a vehicle accident claimed lives on Belize.   The fact they booked their tour privately was an important fact that changed how that story was followed on social media and how it evolved in the news media.

 

It's likely that all cruise lines are watching as this evolves and they all may stop offering excursions with anything other than a low risk present on them.  In that case you'll have to book some tours directly with local tour operators as many people do already.  

 

324665260_RCIShoreExVolcanoCx.thumb.jpeg.7a95b5b30fbf33c95b47fa523d562131.jpeg

Interesting it says all "active" volcanoes since even inactive volcanoes can erupt again at any time.  

Edited by BND

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8 hours ago, DfDinLA said:

I received an e-mail from Royal today saying my excursion to Mt Teide on Tenerife has been canceled.  I'm looking into taking a private tour.

 

We drove to El Tiede when we were there 13 years ago.  Looked a lot like the surface of Mars.  Good way to spend a day.  Of course, we were on the island for about 2 weeks, so we had lots of time. 

 

jc

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Sorry if I’m repeating info but am at sea w limited internet time. Just read that two boys from Chicago area died and parents are still missing...so very sad. But we all are responsible for our actions and choose to take excursions!  It’s a failure of today’s world that lawsuits are the common answer to every event. All IMHO

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6 hours ago, Esprit said:

What about Santorini. The ships birth within the caldera!

 

I've read that both Santorini and Naples are expected to have active volcano activities in the near future. We are traveling there next summer; I have to say I am not taking the White Island news well.

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11 minutes ago, jennyumaa said:

 

I've read that both Santorini and Naples are expected to have active volcano activities in the near future. We are traveling there next summer; I have to say I am not taking the White Island news well.

 

Yours odds of being in a disaster zone in the right (or, wrong) year, right month, right day, and right hour are...minuscule. Truly, ridiculously minuscule. 

Edited by Zach1213

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19 hours ago, greykitty said:

I keep thinking of the hospital staff.  Getting that number of severe burn injuries would be tough, I think, for even the largest trauma centers, civilian or maybe even military, but for a smaller facility, it's a credit to their training and dedication that they coped.  Again, my8 thoughts are with all the victims, their families, the responders and healthcare professionals, and all the other governmental and corporate teams faced with dealing with such a tragedy.  They're all people too.

My cousin was a nurse on duty on 9/11 at the hospital that received so many victims. 

She saw a therapist for several years but says that day and those after it still haunt her. 

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12 hours ago, DfDinLA said:

I received an e-mail from Royal today saying my excursion to Mt Teide on Tenerife has been canceled.  I'm looking into taking a private tour.

 

We rented a car and visited Tiede last year from Jewel of the Seas. If you don't mind a bit of hairy driving, I thought it was a great way to visit. The car rental location is in the port area only a 5 minute walk from the ship. We got to Tiede early, which i highly recommend doing as parking is limited, took the cable car up and hiked to the peak. Keep in mind that hiking the peak requires a special permit you have to file before you get there. There are only 30 slots or so per hour so get that done ASAP to ensure a time that works for you. Then we had a great lunch at a local place in Aguamansa. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. 

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On 12/10/2019 at 12:04 AM, nalrudaini said:

 

Would this be the responsibility of RCI or the local tour operator?

I continue to think about the people who lost their lives and those who are critically burned.  Prayers offered, prayers asked for.  I cannot begin to imagine the grief, the anguish, the pain, the sorrow, and that all of these will be ongoing for years and years.  Amidst a world of sad news, this story has really struck me. 

 

I've been discussing this story with my husband who thinks it is so sad he doesn't even want to read the stories.  He is a lawyer, but not a personal injury lawyer.  He reminded me what he knows about liability law.  He maintains that now IS the time to begin a discussion of the liability issues (and that will evolve as we know more)  as it is this kind of law that protects all of us--and it is constantly evolving to better protect us.  So please, understand that those who talk about liability are grieving for the victims and see some issues that need to be addressed.  

 

All that being said, there are aspects of liability law that some do not know or understand--duty, breach of duty, etc.  So please--be kind to those who mention legal issues.  The mention of the issues is not ambulance chasing,  Instead, it is a avenue of concern and care--for all of us.  

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On 12/11/2019 at 11:14 AM, xpcdoojk said:

I want to congratulate CC management for reopening this thread.  

 

Good job.

 

I am saddened by this tragedy, and this is a good resource for information about it.

 

jc

 

I agree with you.  I came here to read up on it and was rather surprised to find it closed.  

 

22 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

This tragedy has me wondering if other active volcanoes such as the one in St. Lucia and Hawaii should cancel their excursions.

The tourists and their families are in my thoughts and prayers.    I am a past burn victim and know how painful it is.   The survivors will have a long road of recovery.

 

I too thought the same thing about other islands.  Thank you for sharing your personal experience.  I can't even begin to fathom what these individuals and families are going through.  

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13 hours ago, ano said:

There were also 4 that took a helicopter to the island, plus a pilot. They escaped by boat, but its unclear if they were part of the 47. They weren't from the cruise ship.

From what I have read, the passengers were four Germans. When the explosion happened, the pilot (Brian De Pauw) told his passengers to jump into the sea. Two did, and they, along with the pilot, escaped with minor injuries. The two passengers who remained on the island are either missing or in the hospital.

Edited by marci22

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1 hour ago, SLSD said:

I've been discussing this story with my husband who thinks it is so sad he doesn't even want to read the stories.  He is a lawyer, but not a personal injury lawyer.  He reminded me what he knows about liability law.  He maintains that now IS the time to begin a discussion of the liability issues (and that will evolve as we know more)  as it is this kind of law that protects all of us--and it is constantly evolving to better protect us.  So please, understand that those who talk about liability are grieving for the victims and see some issues that need to be addressed.

This is obviously a sensitive and difficult topic to discuss, and different people will deal with it in different ways. Often the legal discussion provokes a visceral reaction, but I agree that we shouldn’t assume the worst. One purpose of liability law is to help (to the extent possible) supplement personal insurance that doesn’t cover all of the medical expenses and loss of income in unexpected events like this. Another purpose is to help us rethink legislation or policies that may prevent further tragedies like this. In 1911 a fire in the garment district of New York caused 146 deaths and spurred changes in the law to improve safety. Ever since we have been continuously learning from our collective experiences and trying to avoid repeating the riskiest activities.

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11 hours ago, Esprit said:

What about Santorini. The ships birth within the caldera!

We will be visiting Santorini next year, twice, and on an overnight excursion. Not concerned. If there are any signs then these will now be monitored. 
 

At this very time we have heard that there is currently a rescue attempt to retrieve the 8 bodies still left on the Island posing considerable risk to the rescue personnel. They know where 6 are located but will need to find the other two. The risks are significant even if the volcano doesn’t get active at this time as there are poisonous gases. Very brave souls. They have just landed on the island. 

Edited by Pushka

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6 hours ago, seahags said:

Sorry if I’m repeating info but am at sea w limited internet time. Just read that two boys from Chicago area died and parents are still missing...so very sad. But we all are responsible for our actions and choose to take excursions!  It’s a failure of today’s world that lawsuits are the common answer to every event. All IMHO

 

The australian media reported that the American family had moved to Australia 6 years ago. They had two teenagers whom excelled in everything they did. 

 

Just like many others they were taking a family holiday to enjoy time together before Christmas. Tragic that this young family has now passed.

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19 minutes ago, Pratique said:

This is obviously a sensitive and difficult topic to discuss, and different people will deal with it in different ways. Often the legal discussion provokes a visceral reaction, but I agree that we shouldn’t assume the worst. One purpose of liability law is to help (to the extent possible) supplement personal insurance that doesn’t cover all of the medical expenses and loss of income in unexpected events like this. Another purpose is to help us rethink legislation or policies that may prevent further tragedies like this. In 1911 a fire in the garment district of New York caused 146 deaths and spurred changes in the law to improve safety. Ever since we have been continuously learning from our collective experiences and trying to avoid repeating the riskiest activities.

Don't forget that cruise ships are governed by Maritime law. Maritime law states that cruise ships offering excursions must fully vet the tour operators. That is their limit on responsibility.

 

I'm not sure if you remember back to 2013. Some people were injured on a Flow Rider, but Royal Caribbean stated that every rider that rode signed a waver that stated the Cruise ship wasn't responsible for any accidents.  As it turned out, Maritime law, for ships traveling between the U.S. and foreign ports or vice versa, are not allowed to have a waver dissolving responsibility.  The waver was deemed not enforceable.  Royal lost.

 

The moral, Maritime law plays a BIG part here, so what anyone thinks the laws are where they live IS NOT THE SAME as laws covering Cruise Ships in the Ocean.  I'm not a lawyer, but no doubt many are looking at this case now.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, ano said:

I'm not sure if you remember back to 2013. Some people were injured on a Flow Rider, but Royal Caribbean stated that every rider that rode signed a waver that stated the Cruise ship wasn't responsible for any accidents.  As it turned out, Maritime law, for ships traveling between the U.S. and foreign ports or vice versa, are not allowed to have a waver dissolving responsibility.  The waver was deemed not enforceable.  Royal lost.

I once signed a RCI waiver that disclaimed all liability from the beginning of time until the end of the universe. Clearly this was over-broad, but I knew it wasn’t completely enforceable.

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37 minutes ago, Pushka said:

We will be visiting Santorini next year, twice, and on an overnight excursion. Not concerned. If there are any signs then these will now be monitored. 
 

At this very time we have heard that there is currently a rescue attempt to retrieve the 8 bodies still left on the Island posing considerable risk to the rescue personnel. They know where 6 are located but will need to find the other two. The risks are significant even if the volcano doesn’t get active at this time as there are poisonous gases. Very brave souls. They have just landed on the island. 

thank you for the update...please continue to share these...not easy to get info here in US.

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From:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/dec/12/new-zealand-volcano-eruption-white-island-nz-police-victim-recovery-retrieval-operation-whakaari-live-news-latest-updates

 

6m ago16:45

NZ Police deputy commissioner John Tims says six bodies have been prepared for airlifting off Whakaari / White Island and the process to transport them to HMNZS Wellington by helicopter has begun.

Tims said: “The operation to recover the bodies from Whakaari / White Island is progressing and the team is well advanced with the recovery of the bodies.

“We expect the recovery operation to continue for another couple of hours. Conditions on the island remain favourable.”

Edited by LMADAMS91

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I mean islands are usually formed by volcanic activity so there are several in the Caribbean and Hawaii.

 

There are an entire cruises (from various lines) that just go around Hawaii and nothing else. Hawaii is a mass of active volcanoes (just not the pyroclastic kind). As you note, ruling out volcanic activity rules out a lot of islands...heck, the entire Pacific Rim is one big mess of earthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanoes. You can quickly start to run out of places to go. Or at least excursions to offer. There are risks just about everywhere.

 

Having said which, I understand their position and their concern. It's not an easy situation.

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15 hours ago, Esilef said:

I wonder how the captain and his crew are doing? I hope royal is supporting them as much as possible. It must be a very trying time for each and everyone of them.

Pinnace member @Sylvain_Plasse is on board and has been doing updates and posting captains announcements on his Instagram account.

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