Ovation of the Seas Pax Possibly Injured in Volcanic Eruption

[Pushka]

17 minutes ago, MasterNotCommander said:

The whole situation is absolutely tragic, especially for the critically injured survivors. 

 I would say though, had I been in the same situation and knowing it was a Level 2 rating, I would have taken the tour. I would also still consider taking a tour of a potentially active volcano and would accept the risks.

The big question will be around whether the tour group were aware of the risks (I presume they signed waivers) and I'm sure the survivors will be questioned as to how much risk they thought they were being exposed to. I suspect the RCCL will be in for a rough ride over this, but quite honestly I doubt anyone in their cruise excursions department onboard ship or in head office envisioned this situation and would never knowingly have exposed their passengers (and their company reputation) to this kind of risk. Over the years I can think of a number of shore excursions that haven't gone to plan (including alaskan seaplane trips and tour group attacks in africa) and perhaps the industry needs a shake up with the cruise line taking on a greater duty of care for its passengers on ship booked tours. 

 

Does anyone other than someone with the correct academic and practical knowledge have any concept of what Level 2 actually means? It’s a meaningless number to me. 

[lissie]

There are 5 levels of 

12 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 

Does anyone other than someone with the correct academic and practical knowledge have any concept of what Level 2 actually means? It’s a meaningless number to me. 

There are 6 levels of alert - 5 being the highest  0 the lowest .  White Island is always at least a 1. 

 

The current level is back to 2 (it was 3 yesterday and post the eruption) - the current status is updated frequently at the Geonet site here https://www.geonet.org.nz/vabs/5QZrCOYsaD2I9FFHDnR8RU 

This is the official definition of the levels https://www.geonet.org.nz/about/volcano/val 

but this is the bit you need to be aware of: 

An eruption may occur at any level, and levels may not move in sequence as activity can change rapidly.

 

White Island is actively monitored - we were on a tour 3 weeks ago (and I'm a trained geologist, but not a volcanologist) and saw where  some of the instruments were located. Those instrument  are still working. The webcams were knocked out on Monday - but I believe GNS is doing fly-overs regularly at the moment. 

 

The instruments  monitor things like earthquakes, gas temperature and composition  -all of which MAY be a pre-cursor for an eruption. Recent history on white island here https://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Learning/Science-Topics/Volcanoes/New-Zealand-Volcanoes/Whakaari-White-Island/About-Whakaari-White-Island 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by lissie

[BND]

30 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

They signed the waiver and were informed of risk. There is risk and then there is danger. If it is sorted out that there was a very high probability that this could happen the company that took them (I assume RCL contracts with the local tour company) could be in some serious legal jeopardy. It sounds as initial facts role in that a tourist attraction was kept open to make lots of $$$ and should have been closed.  But early so we will see.

Royal contracts for all shore excursions they sell.  The NZ government is who should have some oversight into the island and volcano.  There's always a risk when there's a volcano, even an inactive one.

[Sunshine3601]

This tragedy has me wondering if other active volcanoes such as the one in St. Lucia and Hawaii should cancel their excursions.

The tourists and their families are in my thoughts and prayers.    I am a past burn victim and know how painful it is.   The survivors will have a long road of recovery.

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, Lionesss said:

Our local news is following the updates from the honeymoon couple.....he used to live a mere 15 miles from where we live in Hermitage Pa.  

His mother left yesterday for New Zealand to be with her son and daughter in law.

She said she initially missed one call from him after the accident and he left a  message on her answering machine.  She was not able to get in touch with him at the number he gave her.  Then later yesterday she was able to get a call from him before she was leaving for Pittsburgh airport.  She said...................yes he is injured, but with treatment and another surgery he will need time to recover.  As for her daughter in law, she offered no updates other than what the news said, that she is in another hospital and is on a ventilator and sedated.

Locally we are waiting for her updates. This news was all I have at this time.

 

Prayers for this couple and all involved for speedy recovery.

 

Safer travels.

 

Thanks for the update on this.  I can only imagine the mother’s anguish.  

 

JC

[lissie]

Interesting that the discussion  here is about blame. This is from the live feed of the news conference: 

 

Police may consult with next of kin when determining whether to make a quick recovery.

 

A quick uplift strategy, where the recovery team gathers all the bodies as fast as possible, would be the safest option for the recovery team but could degrade the bodies and make identification harder.

 

However, if families indicate they are willing to take that risk, police may consider it. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118058738/live-white-island-erupts

[Pushka]

15 minutes ago, lissie said:

Interesting that the discussion  here is about blame. This is from the live feed of the news conference: 

 

Police may consult with next of kin when determining whether to make a quick recovery.

 

A quick uplift strategy, where the recovery team gathers all the bodies as fast as possible, would be the safest option for the recovery team but could degrade the bodies and make identification harder.

 

However, if families indicate they are willing to take that risk, police may consider it. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118058738/live-white-island-erupts

it isn’t just a case of this tragedy happening, is it. It’s the aftermath. Of not being able to retrieve people. Of loved ones knowing their kin is out there and being powerless to do anything. Knowing that it might not improve for a long time. It isn’t like a storm front that comes and goes - the risk for the rescuers is always there, especially if the volcano can erupt at any time(that isn’t exactly what happened this time but it’s just a data point) and with no notice. Of Police dealing with their frustration at not being able to rescue people and then dealing with the frustration of those whose family is on the island. Then there is the incredible recovery period for so many burns victims. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Pushka

[SeaHunt]

1 hour ago, lissie said:

Chilling account from a medical person in Whakatane hospital (the nearest town). And before the conspiracy peeps start he wants anonimity because its a very small town and he probably doesn't want to have to comment on this  every time he's in public for the rest of his life https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118113442/whakaari-bedlam-at-whakatne-hospital-as-worker-describes-eruption-aftermath 

 

That article is especially heartrending. Brings you to tears just imagining the trauma that everyone is experiencing from this disaster, and the horrific memories they will have to endure in the future. 

 

 

[xpcdoojk]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

it isn’t just a case of this tragedy happening, is it. It’s the aftermath. Of not being able to retrieve people. Of loved ones knowing their kin is out there and being powerless to do anything. Knowing that it might not improve for a long time. It isn’t like a storm front that comes and goes - the risk for the rescuers is always there, especially if the volcano can erupt at any time(that isn’t exactly what happened this time but it’s just a data point) and with no notice. Of Police dealing with their frustration at not being able to rescue people and then dealing with the frustration of those whose family is on the stand. Then there is the incredible recovery period for so many burns victims. 

 

Yeah this is a very complicated disaster.  Very difficult to cope with.

 

jc

[RJB]

31 minutes ago, BND said:

Royal contracts for all shore excursions they sell.  The NZ government is who should have some oversight into the island and volcano.  There's always a risk when there's a volcano, even an inactive one.

There is a risk whenever we cross the street.  Very tough to blame anyone.  Just have to pray for all the people that were caught in this disaster.

[greykitty]

I keep thinking of the hospital staff.  Getting that number of severe burn injuries would be tough, I think, for even the largest trauma centers, civilian or maybe even military, but for a smaller facility, it's a credit to their training and dedication that they coped.  Again, my8 thoughts are with all the victims, their families, the responders and healthcare professionals, and all the other governmental and corporate teams faced with dealing with such a tragedy.  They're all people too.

[lissie]

40 minutes ago, greykitty said:

I keep thinking of the hospital staff.  Getting that number of severe burn injuries would be tough, I think, for even the largest trauma centers, civilian or maybe even military, but for a smaller facility, it's a credit to their training and dedication that they coped.  Again, my8 thoughts are with all the victims, their families, the responders and healthcare professionals, and all the other governmental and corporate teams faced with dealing with such a tragedy.  They're all people too.

Apparently NZ has a national medical strategy of what to do with if they have a sudden influx of burns victims.  I'd never thought of it before but I guess it makes sense.  We have form: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_eruption_of_Mount_Tarawera

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taupo_Volcano

[The Grumpus]

1 hour ago, lissie said:

Interesting that the discussion  here is about blame. This is from the live feed of the news conference: 

 

Police may consult with next of kin when determining whether to make a quick recovery.

 

A quick uplift strategy, where the recovery team gathers all the bodies as fast as possible, would be the safest option for the recovery team but could degrade the bodies and make identification harder.

 

However, if families indicate they are willing to take that risk, police may consider it. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118058738/live-white-island-erupts

Didn’t the New Zealand Police open a criminal probe into this like 2 days ago?  If so, then I guess there’s discussion about blame in New Zealand as well. 

[lissie]

Just now, The Grumpus said:

Didn’t the New Zealand Police open a criminal probe into this like 2 days ago?  If so, then I guess there’s discussion about blame in New Zealand as well. 

No there was mention of that but it was a mistake - its a Coronial Enquiry - which is standard practice for sudden deaths (accidental or otherwise) https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/what-to-expect-during-an-inquiry/

[The Grumpus]

1 minute ago, lissie said:

No there was mention of that but it was a mistake - its a Coronial Enquiry - which is standard practice for sudden deaths (accidental or otherwise) https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/what-to-expect-during-an-inquiry/

Ah. Amazing how many publications picked up that there is one and ran with it. Thanks. 

[NSWP]

11 minutes ago, lissie said:

No there was mention of that but it was a mistake - its a Coronial Enquiry - which is standard practice for sudden deaths (accidental or otherwise) https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/what-to-expect-during-an-inquiry/

A Police Assistant Commissioner did state that NZ Police were conducting a criminal investigation.  Police assist the Coroner in Australia and probably in NZ too.

Edited December 11, 2019 by NSWP

[polaris86]

3 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

This tragedy has me wondering if other active volcanoes such as the one in St. Lucia and Hawaii should cancel their excursions.

I’m cruising in April to St Lucia and RCL just sent notification that they are cancelling the excursions we booked. Wondering if we’ll have an itinerary change. 

[BND]

So, now Royal is cancelling excursions that have anything to do with volcanoes or apparently even near them.  St Lucia and St Kitts both have volcanoes.   I mean islands are usually formed by volcanic activity so there are several in the Caribbean and Hawaii.

Edited December 12, 2019 by BND

[ONECRUISER]

4 hours ago, lissie said:

Apparently NZ has a national medical strategy of what to do with if they have a sudden influx of burns victims.  I'd never thought of it before but I guess it makes sense.  We have form: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_eruption_of_Mount_Tarawera

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taupo_Volcano

That's good. People dont realize many their own Countries do plan for many type Mass Disasters/Casualties...

[ShazM]

We have had 4 arrive here in Sydney last night with 3 taken to Concord Hospital which has been the major burns unit here in NSW and 1 to Royal North Shore burns unit. I believe another 10 will be transported on air force planes over the next 24 hours, depending on their status at that time. The first one that arrived last night was obviously ventilated and came under police escort and staff were holding sheets up because the media had camped out there. Good thing here is that the media aren't allowed past the front fence/wall of the hospitals.

[Hogbay]

Thank you . It will be less of a burden knowing that they are coming home closer to family and friends 

[Pushka]

I understand the lady from Adelaide who has lost her teen daughter and husband has been evacuated to Melbourne. I read she is in an induced coma and won’t know yet about her loss. 
 

This excursion was obviously strenuous so the victims caught up in it were younger. Which makes it all the more tragic. So many young people involved. 

[DfDinLA]

2 hours ago, BND said:

So, now Royal is cancelling excursions that have anything to do with volcanoes or apparently even near them.  St Lucia and St Kitts both have volcanoes.   I mean islands are usually formed by volcanic activity so there are several in the Caribbean and Hawaii.

I received an e-mail from Royal today saying my excursion to Mt Teide on Tenerife has been canceled.  I'm looking into taking a private tour.

[mugtech]

3 hours ago, BND said:

So, now Royal is cancelling excursions that have anything to do with volcanoes or apparently even near them.  St Lucia and St Kitts both have volcanoes.   I mean islands are usually formed by volcanic activity so there are several in the Caribbean and Hawaii.

Wonder if any excursions will be cancelled at Naples.

[ano]

On 12/10/2019 at 1:17 AM, Trevor Fountain said:

There seems to be conflicting reports on how many people are missing. The BBC state 47 people were on the Island, but in the same report they provide a link provided by the Red Cross, which indicates many more.

https://familylinks.icrc.org/new-zealand/en/Pages/search-persons.aspx

The boat the tour company used to bring people to the island can only hold 49 people max., but they had 47 on this day. They possibly they break this up into two groups of approx. 24-25 I have heard.  Of these 47, 8 have died, and 8 more are missing and presumed dead and still on the island. 28 are still in the hospital and of these, 23 are in critical condition, with burns likely over 80% of their bodies, which sadly isn't hopeful. That means only 3 are not in a hospital, and only another 5 are not in critical condition in the hospital. Its not a great situation.

 

I have heard, but can't verify, of the 47 on the island, 38 were from the cruise ship. The ones that weren't were guides or those that booked outside of the cruise ship.

 

There were also 4 that took a helicopter to the island, plus a pilot. They escaped by boat, but its unclear if they were part of the 47. They weren't from the cruise ship.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by ano
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