Nieuw Amsterdam - December 14th - Azipod failure

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

IN this case, they are not sailing. So, perhaps they know something that you don't?

 

 

They are not sailing because the evaluation of the ship (by class and flag state) is not complete, as is evidenced by the divers around the ship.  It's a little hard to hold on and swim underneath the ship looking at the propeller when it is going 15 knots.  I believe they are trying to determine whether there is damage to the propeller or seal, and depending on what the actual failure is and the time frame to repair it, whether it is best to pull the blades off that propeller to reduce load for the remaining pod until it can be fixed.  Very common procedure, and done by divers. 

Or, they may know that repairs can be done within a couple of days, so just cancelling the one cruise is the best option, since it would affect another cruise if they went ahead and sailed, and then had to stop again in port to make the repair.

Edited December 16, 2019 by chengkp75

[RMLincoln]

I was on Maasdam several years ago when we started out from Norfolk on one screw. 

 

We embarked as per normal but were hours late leaving, maybe 9pm as I think it was during our main/late diner seating.  Maybe the delay was to get approvals?  Could see the wake coming out from only one screw turning; made less than normal speed and it screamed all night - people on the A deck aft had a hard time sleeping.  By early morning, maybe 6am, we had 2 screws turning.  We were some hours late to our first port, Half Moon Cay.   The rest of the cruise was normal.  It was my first HAL cruise and I was just glad to be on the ship whether it was tied to a dock or not.  m--

[Cruise Junky]

How disappointing. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Cruise Junky

[HappyInVan]

48 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Or, they may know that repairs can be done within a couple of days, so just cancelling the one cruise is the best option, since it would affect another cruise if they went ahead and sailed, and then had to stop again in port to make the repair.

 

I hear that the cruise for 21st is also cancelled. Might be more serious than you think.

 

In this case, I support HAL's decision. Better to give more notice to the passengers.

[HappyInVan]

30 minutes ago, RMLincoln said:

I was on Maasdam several years ago when we started out from Norfolk on one screw. 

 

 

 

Possibly, the industry has learned something from the Costa Concord disaster ...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster

 

 

and the Viking Sky episode...

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2019/03/26/viking-sky-cruise-evacuation-and-rescue-timeline-what-happened/3275539002/

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Possibly, the industry has learned something from the Costa Concord disaster ...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster

 

 

and the Viking Sky episode...

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2019/03/26/viking-sky-cruise-evacuation-and-rescue-timeline-what-happened/3275539002/

 

 

And what do either of these have to do with sailing on one propulsion unit?

[HappyInVan]

49 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And what do either of these have to do with sailing on one propulsion unit?

 

The safety of passengers derives from good ships and good systems. However, where there is uncertainty, the quality of the decision maker is paramount.

 

Decision makers have to take risks by weighing the gains against the consequences. Often, testosterone influence the perception of risk.

 

Occasionally, a disaster or near-disaster brings things back into balance.

 

Someone who has to make command decisions has to remember the pain and terror experienced by the people under his charge. The terror of the evacuation from the Concordia and the Sky. The final moments of those left behind on the Concordia.

 

Of course, there are passengers and crew who will want to sail on. Full speed ahead. Everything will be fine!!!

 

Of course, when something goes wrong, they'll happily blame the captain and HAL.

 

 

[Samanthac25]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I hear that the cruise for 21st is also cancelled. Might be more serious than you think.

 

In this case, I support HAL's decision. Better to give more notice to the passengers.

Where did you hear that the cruise scheduled for 12/21 is canceled? I’m booked on that cruise and the latest I’ve heard is that they will make a decision and inform us by Tuesday at 3pm. 

[HappyInVan]

4 minutes ago, Samanthac25 said:

Where did you hear that the cruise scheduled for 12/21 is canceled? I’m booked on that cruise and the latest I’ve heard is that they will make a decision and inform us by Tuesday at 3pm. 

 it was posted by Cruise Junky (post #128). I see that she has now edited and deleted that reference.

 

Good luck.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

The safety of passengers derives from good ships and good systems. However, where there is uncertainty, the quality of the decision maker is paramount.

 

Decision makers have to take risks by weighing the gains against the consequences. Often, testosterone influence the perception of risk.

 

Occasionally, a disaster or near-disaster brings things back into balance.

 

Someone who has to make command decisions has to remember the pain and terror experienced by the people under his charge. The terror of the evacuation from the Concordia and the Sky. The final moments of those left behind on the Concordia.

 

Of course, there are passengers and crew who will want to sail on. Full speed ahead. Everything will be fine!!!

 

Of course, when something goes wrong, they'll happily blame the captain and HAL.

 

 

Well, I'm not going to get into another marathon debate with you over this.  You are totally mixing "metaphors".  Both the Concordia and the Viking Sky were 100% functioning vessels just before their incidents.  So, to think that having redundant propulsion will "save" a ship from having an incident is folly.  It will help, but it is no guarantee.  Just like there is no guarantee that a ship with one propeller will have a failure.  Look at every other ship plying today's oceans.  They all have just one engine and one propeller, so even less redundancy than the NA operating with her 6 diesel engines driving that one propeller.

[Copper10-8]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, its not, but I have worked with many Captains who would not hesitate to set sail with passengers with only one propulsion system.  And, as I've said, nearly every major cruise line has sailed within the past 3-4 years with only one propulsion system, and in several cases, have done so for many months.  Once class and the flag state say it is okay for the ship to sail (which is what HAL is doing now), then it is perfectly legal to sail, and they will.

 

As usual, you are 100% correct! Oosterdam, for her 2006/2007 Mexican Riviera season, sailed that entire season with an ailing port side Azi-pod. In April 2007, the ailing pod was removed at a dry-dock in Esquimalt, B.C. and replaced with a smaller spare pod after which she began her 2007 Alaska season. That ailing pod, after having been repaired and overhauled, was re-installed during an April 2009 dry-dock in Palermo, Sicily. 

 

Here's hoping the Grand Bahama Shipyard can accomodate Nieuw A during this week and has such a spare Azi-pod "laying on the shelves" 

[chengkp75]

59 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

As usual, you are 100% correct! Oosterdam, for her 2006/2007 Mexican Riviera season, sailed that entire season with an ailing port side Azi-pod. In April 2007, the ailing pod was removed at a dry-dock in Esquimalt, B.C. and replaced with a smaller spare pod after which she began her 2007 Alaska season. That ailing pod, after having been repaired and overhauled, was re-installed during an April 2009 dry-dock in Palermo, Sicily. 

 

Here's hoping the Grand Bahama Shipyard can accomodate Nieuw A during this week and has such a spare Azi-pod "laying on the shelves" 

Again, no guarantee that a drydock is required.  Whether it is a control failure, or a bent blade, either could be repaired in the water.  You need to work the Security Officer telegraph to find out what happened!

[HappyInVan]

20 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It will help, but it is no guarantee.  Just like there is no guarantee that a ship with one propeller will have a failure.  Look at every other ship plying today's oceans.  They all have just one engine and one propeller, so even less redundancy than the NA operating with her 6 diesel engines driving that one propeller.

 

 

Engineers build redundant systems to reduce risks. Based on hard earned lessons.

 

The Sky was a functioning ship, until it wasn't.

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by HappyInVan

[Copper10-8]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, no guarantee that a drydock is required.  Whether it is a control failure, or a bent blade, either could be repaired in the water.  You need to work the Security Officer telegraph to find out what happened!

 

We shall find out real soon 

[HappyInVan]

18 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

We shall find out real soon 

  Fortunately, the Captain seems to be on the ball.

[wesport]

The Zuiderdam sailing on the 20th, and the Nieuw Statendam sailing on the 22nd are showing prices on almost all categories, but when you go to make a booking, it says that category is no longer available. Thinking they have stopped selling those cruises as a backup for the Nieuw Amsteredam in the event it doesn't sail on the 21st. 

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, as I've said, nearly every major cruise line has sailed within the past 3-4 years with only one propulsion system, and in several cases, have done so for many months.  Once class and the flag state say it is okay for the ship to sail (which is what HAL is doing now), then it is perfectly legal to sail, and they will.

 

8 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

IN this case, they are not sailing. So, perhaps they know something that you don't?

 

 

 

HAL has stated on their FB page (see post 101):

 

"While the ship can safely sail with one Azipod, to do so requires approval from several regulatory authorities which is still in progress. Given the impact of the delay on delivering a satisfactory itinerary for guests, a decision was made to cancel the cruise at 2 p.m. EDT today."

 

Which would seem to match up exactly with what cheng has said...

 

Perhaps best to stop harassing those who know more about the situation than you do?

[fatcat04]

4 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

As usual, you are 100% correct! Oosterdam, for her 2006/2007 Mexican Riviera season, sailed that entire season with an ailing port side Azi-pod. In April 2007, the ailing pod was removed at a dry-dock in Esquimalt, B.C. and replaced with a smaller spare pod after which she began her 2007 Alaska season. That ailing pod, after having been repaired and overhauled, was re-installed during an April 2009 dry-dock in Palermo, Sicily. 

 

Here's hoping the Grand Bahama Shipyard can accomodate Nieuw A during this week and has such a spare Azi-pod "laying on the shelves" 

Good to know. Thank you.

 

Our cruise on NA is scheduled for January 4 so we are watching all this closely. Did running on just one effect the itinerary, changes to ports and times in ports? Just curious. 

 

To be honest, the good captain could probably just cruise the ship around in circles or park her at HMC for a few days and we would be thrilled. We just need a vacation! But we will roll with the flow. Machines break. HAL seems to be doing well by its customers so best to stay positive and make lemonade out of lemons.

[Tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, fatcat04 said:

Good to know. Thank you.

 

Our cruise on NA is scheduled for January 4 so we are watching all this closely. Did running on just one effect the itinerary, changes to ports and times in ports? Just curious. 

 

To be honest, the good captain could probably just cruise the ship around in circles or park her at HMC for a few days and we would be thrilled. We just need a vacation! But we will roll with the flow. Machines break. HAL seems to be doing well by its customers so best to stay positive and make lemonade out of lemons.

We are also booked on this cruise!  Fingers crossed we are able to go!

[DaveOKC]

A thought - I was on the Dec 7-14 sailing and we had to miss Grand Turk on day 3 due to high winds, even though a Carnival ship was able to dock.  Wonder if the azipod had anything to do with this?

[the2ofus]

29 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

A thought - I was on the Dec 7-14 sailing and we had to miss Grand Turk on day 3 due to high winds, even though a Carnival ship was able to dock.  Wonder if the azipod had anything to do with this?

Just recently on his blog Captain Albert discussed wind-related navigation issues at ports like Grand Turk.

 

[Randyk47]

I don’t know what to make of it and maybe it’s nothing but the NA is still docked at Terminal 21 and there’s virtually no activity around the ship.  There have been some tankers trucks (water/fuel?) but not apparent activity at the stern which is clearly visible on the webcam.   Waiting for a part?  Waiting for a decision or decisions from the authorities and company about cruising with only one azipod?  

[MisterBill99]

17 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

I don’t know what to make of it and maybe it’s nothing but the NA is still docked at Terminal 21 and there’s virtually no activity around the ship.  There have been some tankers trucks (water/fuel?) but not apparent activity at the stern which is clearly visible on the webcam.   Waiting for a part?  Waiting for a decision or decisions from the authorities and company about cruising with only one azipod?  

 

I'm thinking the latter so they don't have to cancel holiday sailings.

[Samanthac25]

23 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

I don’t know what to make of it and maybe it’s nothing but the NA is still docked at Terminal 21 and there’s virtually no activity around the ship.  There have been some tankers trucks (water/fuel?) but not apparent activity at the stern which is clearly visible on the webcam.   Waiting for a part?  Waiting for a decision or decisions from the authorities and company about cruising with only one azipod?  

Those who were supposed to sail on the 14th had the option to stay on the ship last night to use it as a hotel. Maybe they are waiting for everyone to disembark? 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Randyk47 said:

I don’t know what to make of it and maybe it’s nothing but the NA is still docked at Terminal 21 and there’s virtually no activity around the ship.  There have been some tankers trucks (water/fuel?) but not apparent activity at the stern which is clearly visible on the webcam.   Waiting for a part?  Waiting for a decision or decisions from the authorities and company about cruising with only one azipod?  

 

1 hour ago, MisterBill99 said:

 

I'm thinking the latter so they don't have to cancel holiday sailings.

Or, perhaps there is nothing wrong with the pod underwater, and the failure is inside the ship.  But, yes, most likely waiting on parts, and the parts are readily available, which is why they decided to repair it now, and only impact perhaps one cruise rather than impact more than one if they sail slower for longer.  That is the reason they are doing it now, rather than any concern that sailing on one pod is "unsafe".