Never again on Holland America

[Shmoo here]

4 minutes ago, promisem said:

 

I'm now under the impression that you aren't reading my posts.

Sorry, that doesn't answer the question.

 

Your original post says:

"received an email saying an Oosterdam propeller was broken, we were starting a day late "

 

I took that to mean the ship would be departing the second day of the cruise.  There are several cruises that start one day, but don't actually leave the embarkation port until the second day.  It's still part of the cruise.

 

Were you required to not board until what would have been your second day?  Or did you board on your original embarkation day?

 

Cruises are sold as, for example, a "7 night cruise".  Were you onboard for 7 nights?  

Edited January 2, 2020 by Shmoo here

[promisem]

Just now, Shmoo here said:

Sorry, that doesn't answer the question.

 

Your original post says:

"received an email saying an Oosterdam propeller was broken, we were starting a day late "

 

I took that to mean the ship would be departing the second day of the cruise.  There are several cruises that start one day, but don't actually leave the embarkation port until the second day.  It's still part of the cruise.

 

Were you required to not board until what would have been your second day?  Or did you board on your original embarkation day?

 

As I have said previously, we boarded on the scheduled embarkation day. We departed on the second day after sitting in the San Diego port for all of the first day.

[Shmoo here]

3 minutes ago, promisem said:

 

As I have said previously, we boarded on the scheduled embarkation day. We departed on the second day after sitting in the San Diego port for all of the first day.

So you did have the full 7 nights onboard.

 

Also, making San Diego your first port of call.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Shmoo here

[twodjs]

So you are suggesting that any time in a port should be subtracted from days on a cruise. That is simply crazy! 

[promisem]

1 minute ago, twodjs said:

So you are suggesting that any time in a port should be subtracted from days on a cruise. That is simply crazy! 

 

I suggest you buy an airline ticket from Port Angeles to New York City, have the airline dump you in Kansas City and still pay for a flight from Port Angeles to NYC.

[Shmoo here]

Just now, promisem said:

 

I suggest you buy an airline ticket from Port Angeles to New York City, have the airline dump you in Kansas City and still pay for a flight from Port Angeles to NYC.

You bought a ticket from San Diego to San Diego.  You weren't "dumped" anywhere.

[promisem]

7 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

So you did have the full "7 night cruise".  That's how cruises are sold - by nights, not days.

 

No, I didn't have a full 7 night cruise. Ships are supposed to move. That's why they call it a cruise.

 

Sitting in a room at the embarkation dock for a full day instead of visiting Mazatlan is not a cruise.

Edited January 2, 2020 by promisem

[Hlitner]

22 minutes ago, promisem said:

 

Your examples all have to do with weather outside of the control of the resort and airlines. As I keep saying, the issue is a mechanical failure for which the cruise line is responsible and which cost us a port of call and full day at sea.

 

It has nothing to do with weather. I wouldn't expect compensation for that reason.

Cruise lines have made sure (its in the language of the passenger contract) that they have no obligation in cases of mechanical related delays.  Some lines try to make it right and others could care less about their customers.  As to the airlines, even if their delays/cancellations are caused by mechanical issues they look for subtle ways to blame it on the weather (which avoids any liability on their part).

 

Hank

[twodjs]

No, by your rationale, any time spent in Cabo or any other port needs to be subtracted from the days of the cruise. So, by your logic, we had about a five day cruise. 

[promisem]

3 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

You bought a ticket from San Diego to San Diego.  You weren't "dumped" anywhere.

 

No, I bought a ticket to Mazatlan. I was left in San Diego.

[promisem]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Cruise lines have made sure (its in the language of the passenger contract) that they have no obligation in cases of mechanical related delays.  Some lines try to make it right and others could care less about their customers.  As to the airlines, even if their delays/cancellations are caused by mechanical issues they look for subtle ways to blame it on the weather (which avoids any liability on their part).

 

Hank

 

I understand your point. After well more than 100 flights, I have always known every single airline to make something right and deliver what they promised.

[promisem]

6 minutes ago, twodjs said:

No, by your rationale, any time spent in Cabo or any other port needs to be subtracted from the days of the cruise. So, by your logic, we had about a five day cruise. 

 

Not at all. A port of call is part of the cruise we paid for.  We didn't pay to visit San Diego.

Edited January 2, 2020 by promisem

[twodjs]

Did you sleep on the ship for seven nights - yes or no. Just answer the question.

[twodjs]

Just now, promisem said:

 

Not at all. A port of call is part of the cruise we paid for. 

And they compensated you for missing that port.

 

[promisem]

1 minute ago, twodjs said:

Did you sleep on the ship for seven nights - yes or no. Just answer the question.

 

I have already said many times on here that yes, we slept on the ship. And I'll save you the trouble of telling me what I have already heard.

 

We paid for a cruise. We didn't pay to sleep on the San Diego docks.

[Shmoo here]

11 minutes ago, promisem said:

 

No, I bought a ticket to Mazatlan. I was left in San Diego.

The cruise was not from San Diego to Mazatlan, was it?  I mean, Mazatlan was only a port of call on a San Diego roundtrip?

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Shmoo here

[promisem]

1 minute ago, twodjs said:

And they compensated you for missing that port.

 

 

I'm not sure why HAL defenders are so upset, but I'll try to summarize their points:

 

1. Some think there should be no compensation under any circumstances.

2. Some think HAL isn't responsible for any problems under their control.

3. Some think I shouldn't post anything bad about HAL.

 

The summary of what I think:

 

1. I'm glad I got some compensation.

2. HAL is responsible for problems under their control.

3. I paid for 3 ports and a six-day, seven-night cruise.

4. I didn't pay for 2 ports and a five-day, six-night cruise.

5. The $100 doesn't equal the lost value of what I paid for.

 

 

[promisem]

4 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

The cruise was not from San Diego to Mazatlan, was it?  I mean, Mazatlan was only a port of call on a San Diego roundtrip?

 

 

 

I don't remember which day we were supposed to visit Mazatlan. I can only tell you that they dropped Mazatlan from the schedule.

[Shmoo here]

2 minutes ago, promisem said:

2. Some think HAL isn't responsible for any problems under their control.

 

2 minutes ago, promisem said:

2. HAL is responsible for problems under their control.

A broken propeller is not under their control.  Even if it's on their ship.  Things break.  HAL did nothing to make it break.  They needed the time to fix it, make it safe.  

[Shmoo here]

1 minute ago, promisem said:

 

I don't remember which day we were supposed to visit Mazatlan. I can only tell you that they dropped Mazatlan from the schedule.

Because there wasn't time to stop there with the late start.  Or they couldn't get a port time on the day that they could get there.

 

So you got an overnight in San Diego.  

 

I don't understand, why you, as someone who travels (apparently a lot) that you can't understand that not all trips come off as scheduled.  If all of your past trips have happened exactly as planned, I'd say you're way ahead of the game.

 

 

[kazu]

6 minutes ago, promisem said:

3. I paid for 3 ports and a six-day, seven-night cruise.

4. I didn't pay for 2 ports and a five-day, six-night cruise.

 

And this is why the trouble has started.  

 

Everyone is sympathetic but you had a 6 day 7 night cruise NOT a 5 day, 6 night cruise.

 

Have you never overnighted in a port on a cruise before?  It’s usually a highlight on a cruise  (not embarkation day) but the bottom line is the ship does not have to be moving when you are on a cruise.  It doesn’t when you are in port.  You are still on the cruise - you are still being fed, sleeping there and, I would hope, could have gone off to explore San Diego if you so chose.

 

I’m not unsympathetic to your situation but now you are twisting the facts on the length of your cruise, sorry.  

 

[promisem]

Just now, Shmoo here said:

Because there wasn't time to stop there with the late start.  Or they couldn't get a port time on the day that they could get there.

 

So you got an overnight in San Diego.  

 

I don't understand, why you, as someone who travels (apparently a lot) that you can't understand that not all trips come off as scheduled.  If all of your past trips have happened exactly as planned, I'd say you're way ahead of the game.

 

 

 

With all due respect, I believe you are still missing the point. I spent decades in management. A business is ethically and legally responsible for the quality of the products and services they deliver. They don't promise something, get paid and deliver something less.

 

Yes, we travel a lot. We also have run into many problems and deal with them. This is different in many ways.

[promisem]

2 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

And this is why the trouble has started.  

 

Everyone is sympathetic but you had a 6 day 7 night cruise NOT a 5 day, 6 night cruise.

 

Have you never overnighted in a port on a cruise before?  It’s usually a highlight on a cruise  (not embarkation day) but the bottom line is the ship does not have to be moving when you are on a cruise.  It doesn’t when you are in port.  You are still on the cruise - you are still being fed, sleeping there and, I would hope, could have gone off to explore San Diego if you so chose.

 

I’m not unsympathetic to your situation but now you are twisting the facts on the length of your cruise, sorry.  

 

 

I am not twising the facts. You are misunderstanding my point. We did not have a 6-day, 7-night cruise because we left a day later than the cruise schedule.

 

As I keep saying, we did not pay HAL to sleep on the San Diego docks. That is not a cruise.

[kazu]

1 minute ago, promisem said:

 

I am not twising the facts. You are misunderstanding my point. We did not have a 6-day, 7-night cruise because we left a day later than the cruise schedule.

 

As I keep saying, we did not pay HAL to sleep on the San Diego docks. That is not a cruise.

 

I’m not misunderstanding anything.  I’ve read the entire thread.

 

I fully sympathize with leaving late and understand your disappointment but the bottom line is you were still on the ship.  You weren’t sleeping on the San Diego docks.  You were sleeping on the ship.

Our cruise in the fall overnights in Kobe.  I certainly consider it a cruise even if I am sleeping on the Kobe docks 😉 

[twodjs]

Sorry, but any cruise line in the industry would call a Saturday to Saturday cruise a 7 night cruise, no matter where the ship went. You won't find anyone with cruise experience who would support your logic.