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SargassoPirate

Can't Maneuver Around Other Mobility Devices Parked In The Corridor?

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Posted (edited)

On this board, we all know that mobility devices are not to be parked in the corridors and other paths of exit travel.  But not everyone reads this board or the cruise line's policies and will leave their mobility devices parked in the corridors, often overnight, making it difficult for anyone to maneuver around them under normal circumstances, let alone during a fire or other emergency evacuation emergency.  On a discussion on another board regarding mobility devices blocking exit corridors and cruise line's reluctance to enforce SOLAS and their own policies, I posted some information that may be helpful to register your complaint while on board by quoting the SOLAS language (1), as well as how to file a complaint with the US Coast Guard if appropriate action is not taken in response to your complaint (2).  

 

(1)  SOLAS states “escape routes shall be maintained in a safe condition clear of obstacles 

 

(2)  Vessel Safety: Persons who wish to complain about a safety-related matter they have observed on a cruise ship should contact the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office (MSO) responsible for the Control Verification Examination of the ship.  Interested persons can get a referral to the appropriate MSO by calling the Coast Guard toll-free Consumer Hotline: 1-800-368-5647.  The most popular ports for cruise ships are Miami, FL; Juneau, AK, and San Juan, PR.  The Coast Guard MSO telephone numbers are: (305) 535-8705 (Miami); (907) 463-2450 (Juneau), and (787) 729-6800 (San Juan).

 

Safe cruising to all.

 

 

 

Edited by SargassoPirate

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After our recent cruise on the Royal Princess I felt compelled to write to Princess regarding our many problems with that NEW ship. We have been on 45 Princess cruises on various ships but we were especially disappointed that this new ship was so un-accessible for mobility challenged passengers.

 

My husband uses a 3-wheel Tzoro Mobility Scooter which is only 59 pounds and has dimensions of 22” wide, 41” high and 34” long.  We had an accessible cabin on this ship (C302).  On our cruise there were, at least, 15 mobility scooters and more walkers than I could count, plus several wheelchairs.

We have seen this demographic change drastically in the past few years and yet, I feel, the cruise lines are not keeping up with the needs of their disabled guests.

STATEROOM

The entry to the stateroom is EXTREMELY difficult to maneuver into from the elevator lobby.  It is necessary to first make a 90-degree right turn into the narrow hallway then make a 90-degree left turn to get into the cabin.  My husbands scooter is very light and maneuverable however it was almost impossible for him to make these sharp turns without hitting the door each time and I can’t imagine someone with a heavy-duty scooter being able to make them at all.  I did see a heavy-duty scooter parked in the elevator lobby on one of the decks.  I don’t know if the guest had an accessible cabin or not and just couldn’t get into the cabin or did not have an accessible cabin.  The same problem with making the turns would be true for guests with wheelchairs or even walkers. 

ALSO, no automatic door openers!!!  How is someone, who is traveling alone supposed to open and hold the stateroom door by themselves??  That is impossible.  We have been on other ships and they have automatic door openers (even Carnival).  It seems that Princess is far behind in accessibility for mobility impaired guests.  It doesn’t seem that that would be a big expense for Princess to install and certainly would improve the experience for a traveler who is traveling alone or just wanted to go to their cabin BY THEMSELVES.

DINNING ROOM

 

Princess ships have very narrow hallways and it is always impossible to get through in the mornings and evenings when the steward carts are out.  This made it necessary for us to change our dining room from our appointed Dining room Allegro on deck 6 in the back of the ship to the Symphony Dining room on deck 5 midship.  Unless we changed it would be necessary for us to take the elevators down to deck 7, walk aft to the elevator bank and then wait while all the elevators come down from upper decks too full to accommodate us to take us to deck 6 which is the only way for mobility challenged passengers to get there.

 

CASINO

With a mobility scooter, wheelchair or walker there were big problems.  The slot machines lined up against the starboard wall were totally inaccessible due to the position of the gaming tables and the fact that there were posts in the way next to the slot machines.

 

A few other machines were back to back under the stairway that leads up to deck 7 so they are not accessible since there is no room to maneuver a scooter or wheelchair in front of them.  The few that were backed up to the wall coming from the atrium are also inaccessible, due to the fact that if a guest with a scooter parks in front of them, then the ONLY path thru the casino is being blocked for someone to walk.

 

We found that the path thru the casino is so narrow that it is necessary for a either the guest with the scooter or the walking guest to pass.  In order words, the guest with the scooter would have to wait for the guest coming in the other direction to pass before proceeding thru.

 

PRINCESS THEATER

 

This venue was especially distressing for us and totally unacceptable.  When we entered the theater on deck 7, we found that there were only 2 “spaces” for guests with mobility impaired equipment.  When my husband used one of the spaces that is nearest to the entrance, his line of sight was blocked by the handrail for the stairs.

 

Since that space did not afford him a good line of sight, the following night we tried deck 6 where there are “indented” rows for accommodating mobility impaired guests.  These rows could/would accommodate wheelchairs, but a mobility scooter is longer and therefore takes up the entrance to two rows, making it impossible for other guests to pass by to get to their seats.  AND, additionally, a mobility scooter is much higher than a wheelchair therefore guests in the rows behind cannot see over the head of the guest on the scooter.  If my husband got off the scooter and used the first seat in the row, he would still be unable to stand each time someone needed to pass to get in or out of the row.

 The hallways on all of the Princess ships are all very narrow.  They do not allow mobility scooters/wheelchairs room to pass when the stewart's carts are in the hallways which they are in the morning and evening.  I can understand Princess wanting to use the area to allow for bigger staterooms but this is an especially difficult problem for many passengers.

 

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16 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

On this board, we all know that mobility devices are not to be parked in the corridors and other paths of exit travel.  But not everyone reads this board or the cruise line's policies and will leave their mobility devices parked in the corridors, often overnight, making it difficult for anyone to maneuver around them under normal circumstances, let alone during a fire or other emergency evacuation emergency.  On a discussion on another board regarding mobility devices blocking exit corridors and cruise line's reluctance to enforce SOLAS and their own policies, I posted some information that may be helpful to register your complaint while on board by quoting the SOLAS language (1), as well as how to file a complaint with the US Coast Guard if appropriate action is not taken in response to your complaint (2).  

 

(1)  SOLAS states “escape routes shall be maintained in a safe condition clear of obstacles 

 

(2)  Vessel Safety: Persons who wish to complain about a safety-related matter they have observed on a cruise ship should contact the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office (MSO) responsible for the Control Verification Examination of the ship.  Interested persons can get a referral to the appropriate MSO by calling the Coast Guard toll-free Consumer Hotline: 1-800-368-5647.  The most popular ports for cruise ships are Miami, FL; Juneau, AK, and San Juan, PR.  The Coast Guard MSO telephone numbers are: (305) 535-8705 (Miami); (907) 463-2450 (Juneau), and (787) 729-6800 (San Juan).

 

Safe cruising to all.

 

 

 

Just contact guest services. They will send out security to take care of it.

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19 hours ago, CRUISEWITHH said:

After our recent cruise on the Royal Princess I felt compelled to write to Princess regarding our many problems with that NEW ship. We have been on 45 Princess cruises on various ships but we were especially disappointed that this new ship was so un-accessible for mobility challenged passengers.

While we all understand your problems this doesn't justify leaving scooters, wheelchairs, etc, parked in hallways.  Doing so is a safety hazard and a gross inconvenience for everybody, including disabled people trying to get past such obstacles.

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6 hours ago, mets123 said:

Just contact guest services. They will send out security to take care of it.

 

I do and often they don't.  I keep escalating my complaint by submitting a written complaint the second time, and then by the third asking to speak to the hotel manager or officer of the watch.  I often get the feeling that they hope the problem will go away at the end of the cruise when I'm no longer there to complain.  Just a feeling.  To me it seems obvious they don't care about enforcing the fire regulations until somebody complains.

 

I am working on a pre-printed complaint form that I can take with me on the cruise.  All I'll have to do is fill in the location of the mobility devices blocking the path of exit travel.  It will look much better than my hand written complaint on whatever paper I can find on the ship and will provide a written record for me.  It will cite SOLAS and the particular cruise line policy right out of their documents online. 

 

When I used to do fire inspections, if a property owner or other official refused to take action to correct fire/life safety hazards, I would tell that person that failing to bring their building into compliance with the fire code meant that they were accepting full personal responsibility and liability should a fire disaster occur.  They had a written report and I had a copy.  I also feel a moral obligation to speak up when I observe fire/life safety hazards.  If I fail to do so and tragedy later occurs.......well, you can guess.

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We primarily sail Royal and Carnival on occasion. Never had any problems.

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9 hours ago, crazyank said:

While we all understand your problems this doesn't justify leaving scooters, wheelchairs, etc, parked in hallways.  Doing so is a safety hazard and a gross inconvenience for everybody, including disabled people trying to get past such obstacles.

I absolutely couldn't agree more.  It ticks me off also to see scooters, wheelchairs AND a twin (wide)  baby stroller parked in the hallways. 

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On 1/3/2020 at 10:41 PM, CRUISEWITHH said:

I absolutely couldn't agree more.  It ticks me off also to see scooters, wheelchairs AND a twin (wide)  baby stroller parked in the hallways. 

Thanks,  My wife is still recovering from a serious injury caused by an arrogant, self centered scooter user.

IMHO it is time to crack down on some of this stuff.  Just because someone uses a scooter that does not give them the right to run over,  smash into, block hallways,  push to the head of the line, etc.

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On 1/2/2020 at 8:33 AM, SargassoPirate said:

how to file a complaint with the US Coast Guard if appropriate action is not taken in response to your complaint (2).  

And, as I posted in that thread, unless you are willing to go to the following lengths, your complaint to the USCG will do just about nothing:

 

Just know that the USCG will only investigate a report of a safety concern, if one of two things happen;  one, if the condition exists at the time of the USCG inspection (i.e. in a US port), or two, if there is documentary evidence of the issue while the ship is in international waters.  So, you would require several time/date stamped photos of the offending scooter, showing long term parking in the passageway, documented evidence of having reported this to the ship's management, and documentary evidence that the reporting did nothing, and the vessel's itinerary to show that the photos were taken either in US waters or international waters.  Without documentation, one call to the MSO will possibly generate a visit to the ship at the next port call, and a friendly chat with the Captain regarding the complaint, but that would be about it.

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55 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, as I posted in that thread, unless you are willing to go to the following lengths, your complaint to the USCG will do just about nothing:

 

Just know that the USCG will only investigate a report of a safety concern, if one of two things happen;  one, if the condition exists at the time of the USCG inspection (i.e. in a US port), or two, if there is documentary evidence of the issue while the ship is in international waters.  So, you would require several time/date stamped photos of the offending scooter, showing long term parking in the passageway, documented evidence of having reported this to the ship's management, and documentary evidence that the reporting did nothing, and the vessel's itinerary to show that the photos were taken either in US waters or international waters.  Without documentation, one call to the MSO will possibly generate a visit to the ship at the next port call, and a friendly chat with the Captain regarding the complaint, but that would be about it.

 

Good info chenkp75.  Thanks. Time stamped photos of the hazard would be no problem and I can also take a photo of my written complaint to the ship's officers.  My goal is always to get the officers to take responsibility for correcting the hazards.

 

 

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I had an issue last February on Celebrity Silhouette.  I was in a wheelchair, but unable to get an accessible room.  I could walk a small amount, but had been non-weight bearing on one of my legs for 8 weeks prior to the cruise, and was only allowed to start putting weight on it a few days before the cruise.

 

Someone else in a regular room (non-accessible) had rented a scooter.  He loved parking it in the hallway, and it made it difficult for me to get past.

 

One evening, his parking job was even worse.  There was no way for me to get through the hallway in my wheelchair, even the narrow one I was in.

 

When I came off the elevator and found I could not get to my room, I turned around and we went back to guest services in person.  I was firm that the person with the scooter was violating the requirements of the ship, and now was actually preventing me from getting to my room.  His desire to use a scooter was interfering with my ABILITY to get through the hallway in a wheelchair.  I had on a Ortho boot, he didn’t.

 

They said there was nothing they could do.  At which point, I requested security be called and the safety officer on board.  Why the safety officer?  My understanding was that he was ultimately responsible for ensuring the safety rules were followed.  That scooter violated international safety rules.  It prevented me from getting to my room, and if it was there in an emergency would prevent me from leaving the hallway, and at that point I’d be blocking the hallway, preventing OTHERS from evacuation.  
 

Apparently someone finally spoke with him and from then on the scooter was parked in a corner of the elevator area, and not blocking the halls.  

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3 hours ago, Algebralovr said:

I had an issue last February on Celebrity Silhouette.  I was in a wheelchair, but unable to get an accessible room.  I could walk a small amount, but had been non-weight bearing on one of my legs for 8 weeks prior to the cruise, and was only allowed to start putting weight on it a few days before the cruise.

 

Someone else in a regular room (non-accessible) had rented a scooter.  He loved parking it in the hallway, and it made it difficult for me to get past.

 

One evening, his parking job was even worse.  There was no way for me to get through the hallway in my wheelchair, even the narrow one I was in.

 

When I came off the elevator and found I could not get to my room, I turned around and we went back to guest services in person.  I was firm that the person with the scooter was violating the requirements of the ship, and now was actually preventing me from getting to my room.  His desire to use a scooter was interfering with my ABILITY to get through the hallway in a wheelchair.  I had on a Ortho boot, he didn’t.

 

They said there was nothing they could do.  At which point, I requested security be called and the safety officer on board.  Why the safety officer?  My understanding was that he was ultimately responsible for ensuring the safety rules were followed.  That scooter violated international safety rules.  It prevented me from getting to my room, and if it was there in an emergency would prevent me from leaving the hallway, and at that point I’d be blocking the hallway, preventing OTHERS from evacuation.  
 

Apparently someone finally spoke with him and from then on the scooter was parked in a corner of the elevator area, and not blocking the halls.  

 

Parking the scooter is still in violation of SOLAS since the elevator/stairway lobby is a crossover between port and starboard.  Take notice of the exit signage the next time you are on board.

 

The cruise line should provide "valet parking" when the scooter will not fit into the cabin and park it elsewhere.

 

At least they moved it out of the corridor. Close, but no cigar.

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2 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Parking the scooter is still in violation of SOLAS since the elevator/stairway lobby is a crossover between port and starboard.  Take notice of the exit signage the next time you are on board.

 

The cruise line should provide "valet parking" when the scooter will not fit into the cabin and park it elsewhere.

 

At least they moved it out of the corridor. Close, but no cigar.

I was at least able to get through the hallway.  
The parking place they used was in a corner, and didn’t impede the traffic.  
 

I wish they would offer “valet parking” of scooters!  That would be a huge help,  but sadly they do not.

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Cruisewith - What a terrible situation to be in with Princess.   I have been fortunate that I have not been on any ship with all of those problems.   My biggest complaint so far is not having automatic door openers and having to wait for someone to come along and open the door for me when I am on my scooter.

 

The last cruise we were on the Koningsdam our cabin had an automatic door.   It was wonderful and the first cabin where I had that feature.   We have booked the same cabin again for November because we enjoyed it so much.

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Maybe if people would adhere to the rules of bringing their own scooter, they wouldn't need to park outside of the cabin. I bring my own scooter, 3-wheeled Pride GoGo Elite Traveler Plus. I know the exact dimensions of my scooter, and I can easily drive my scooter into our cabin, a standard balcony. I read the cruise line rules as to whether my scooter will fit in our cabin prior to going on a cruise. I follow rules and regulations.

 

I have seen on two or three occasions where a guest has brought on a scooter so large that it should not have been permitted on the cruise. People know they can't do that but they do it anyway and this particular guest drove his scooter so fast on the cruise ship, that someone could have gotten seriously hurt if they stepped out in front of him  This particular mobility scooter actually required 5 crew members to help pick up, or precariously get this particular scooter off of the tender somehow. I was certain that one of the crew were going to be injured during that maneuver. I blame some of the cruise lines for allowing these oversized mobility scooters on the ship. 

 

If people would abide by the rules, mobility devices wouldn't be parked outside of cabins. The cruise line needs to take responsibility too. If they have definite rules on dimensions of these devices they should insist that guests follow the rules, and if they don't they should be denied boarding. I've only used my scooter on Carnival, and I've never had any problem, in fact, everyone was always very helpful. I've not seen any problems with wheelchairs, scooters, etc. blocking areas. Maybe I was luckily on a different deck. Anyway, follow rules people.

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9 hours ago, fair-winds39 said:

 

If people would abide by the rules, mobility devices wouldn't be parked outside of cabins. The cruise line needs to take responsibility too. If they have definite rules on dimensions of these devices they should insist that guests follow the rules, and if they don't they should be denied boarding.

 

Some airlines have a template that your carry-on bag must fit into. Perhaps cruise lines should have a template the width of a cabin door for the scooter user to maneuver through on the way to check in.  If it doesn't fit, you must quit.

 

Ain't gonna happen though.  The cruise line's goal is to get as many people and their credit cards on board and spending as possible.  That's why they turn a blind eye to the hazards presented by mobility devices parked in paths of exit travel.

 

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5 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Some airlines have a template that your carry-on bag must fit into. Perhaps cruise lines should have a template the width of a cabin door for the scooter user to maneuver through on the way to check in.  If it doesn't fit, you must quit.

That would be an excellent idea.  Cruise lines could also insist that guests bringing scooters on board present a Doctor's letter stating that they actually need a scooter.  I can't begin to count how many times we have seen people driving a scooter around the ship and then seen the same person on walking around in port.  Must be some miraculous healing happening when they step off the ship.  Scooter drivers should also be held responsible for any injuries or damage they cause.

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58 minutes ago, crazyank said:

That would be an excellent idea.  Cruise lines could also insist that guests bringing scooters on board present a Doctor's letter stating that they actually need a scooter.  I can't begin to count how many times we have seen people driving a scooter around the ship and then seen the same person on walking around in port.  Must be some miraculous healing happening when they step off the ship.  Scooter drivers should also be held responsible for any injuries or damage they cause.

Sorry but this is rubbish, I use anything from one walking stick, two sticks, a walker or a power wheelchair, on some days I can even get by with nothing (though those days are becoming rare) now I have no idea one day to the next what I am going to need, so many vaiables, how do you propose I get my chair onto the ship, other than ride it on, and then if you see me out of it how is that some type of “miraculous healing”.

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8 hours ago, crazyank said:

That would be an excellent idea.  Cruise lines could also insist that guests bringing scooters on board present a Doctor's letter stating that they actually need a scooter.  I can't begin to count how many times we have seen people driving a scooter around the ship and then seen the same person on walking around in port.  Must be some miraculous healing happening when they step off the ship.  Scooter drivers should also be held responsible for any injuries or damage they cause.

You know, there are neurological disorders and chronic diseases that cause mobility issues. Now, sometimes the issues are full blown problems, other times mobility issues are not quite as severe.  For instance, at home I don't need my scooter,  I can  drag myself around without a cane, holding onto walls or furniture. Other times, like in a large venue or on a cruise ship, I may not be able to walk three feet without my cane or rollator, so I can use my scooter and get around. By the way I am very adept using my scooter. I don't run over, crash into people or ever park the scooter in a hallway. Most of us know how to operate our devices.

 

My point is don't judge someone, just because you may see them walking around. They may have some problems that flare up off and on. However, I agree I have seen folks like the ones you describe. I always give them the benefit of a doubt and hope they're not faking it. It's my "boy, I wish I could do that " moment. I would give anything in the world to be able to walk like I used to, but it hasn't turned out that way. Thankfully though I'm still able to cruise and get around with a scooter.

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We just returned from a Carnival journey cruise to Panama. Both my husband and I use scooters. As stated above we both have good days and bad days and depending in the day determines what we need to get around with the least amount of pain. Sometimes its the scooter, or it could be a walker or canes. I am going to use what I need to help me make my cruise as enjoyable as possible. So, you bet, sometimes you will see me on my scooter, sometimes you will see me using my cane. None of anyone business but mine.

 

And fyi... as many times as people have ran in front of me, stepped in front of me and then stopped dead in their tracks, tried to push me out of the way, cut off my path to the elevator, I haven't hit anyone yet.

 

To those who post their "miraculous healing" observations.. you have no idea of others journeys. You don't know what you don't know.

 

That being said..

 

We embarked in Tampa and after security we were directed to a wonderful gentlemen to check is in. He had a mat on the floor and we were instructed to roll on to measure the length and width to be sure we were in tolerance of the door width. He also gave a gentle reminder that scooters were not allowed to be left in the hall way. This part has never been an issue with us. In addition he gave us priority boarding.  win win. At this port they also had scooters available for rent.

 

I wish they did this fleet wide. Our scooters are in our room. I would not trust them to be left in the hall anyway.

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I'm about to embark on my first cruise with a knee scooter.  I also have a moon boot.  You may see me walk a short distance with my boot but that doesn't mean I don't need the scooter for longer distances.

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19 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

I'm about to embark on my first cruise with a knee scooter.  I also have a moon boot.  You may see me walk a short distance with my boot but that doesn't mean I don't need the scooter for longer distances.

That's completely understandable and your situation is not the type I was  referring to.

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On 1/6/2020 at 7:16 PM, GUT2407 said:

Sorry but this is rubbish, I use anything from one walking stick, two sticks, a walker or a power wheelchair, on some days I can even get by with nothing (though those days are becoming rare) now I have no idea one day to the next what I am going to need, so many vaiables, how do you propose I get my chair onto the ship, other than ride it on, and then if you see me out of it how is that some type of “miraculous healing”.

I never said anything about HOW anyone should get their scooter onto the ship.  I said scooter users should be held responsible for any injuries or damage they cause. More and more we are seeing scooter users who do not know how to drive safely in crowded areas.

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15 minutes ago, crazyank said:

That's completely understandable and your situation is not the type I was  referring to.

 

5 minutes ago, crazyank said:

I never said anything about HOW anyone should get their scooter onto the ship.  I said scooter users should be held responsible for any injuries or damage they cause. More and more we are seeing scooter users who do not know how to drive safely in crowded areas.

 

On 1/6/2020 at 12:14 PM, crazyank said:

I can't begin to count how many times we have seen people driving a scooter around the ship and then seen the same person on walking around in port.  Must be some miraculous healing happening when they step off the ship.

This last is what both helen haywood and gut2407 were objecting to.  Your sarcastic dismissal of part time scooter users is demeaning to those who need mobility devices.

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38 minutes ago, crazyank said:

I never said anything about HOW anyone should get their scooter onto the ship.  I said scooter users should be held responsible for any injuries or damage they cause. More and more we are seeing scooter users who do not know how to drive safely in crowded areas.

No you spoke about “miraculous healings” and my poin is, if I may need my chair during the cruise, it is coming with me and there is only one way to get it on board, then if I am having a good day, you may see me walking, albeit stick in hand, to you it would seem to be a scam to me a god send, a rare day when I can walk more than a couple of steps.

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