End of Great British Sailaway ?

[Bazrat]

Xenophobic jingoistic comments some people come out with, alas the only time we went on a GBS everyone was enjoying themselves not the drunken idiots some comment on, nor did I hear any wartime songs must have missed those.

[jeanlyon]

The three of us normally join the choir on board which is great fun.  Until, that is, we are asked if we will sing at the GBS 😞  this entails singing White Cliffs of Dover, National Anthem and various other items.  We would rather not do it as we find it embarrassing, especially when moored near a German ship which has happened twice.  If only we could sing rousing songs that are not WWII songs that would be great.

Edited February 21, 2020 by jeanlyon

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

The three of us normally join the choir on board which is great fun.  Until, that is, we are asked if we will sing at the GBS 😞  this entails singing White Cliffs of Dover, National Anthem and various other items.  We would rather not do it as we find it embarrassing, especially when moored near a German ship which has happened twice.  If only we could sing rousing songs that are not WWII songs that would be great.

Well said Jean.  Hopefully those days of living in the past will soon be over,  if they are not already. 

[terrierjohn]

Just now, wowzz said:

Well said Jean.  Hopefully those days of living in the past will soon be over,  if they are not already. 

Its not living in the past Wowzz, its called nostalgia, and its existed for centuries, the bible is a prime example.  I don't believe that enjoying a trip down memory lane should be considered embarrassing, and singing patriotic songs is not jingoism. 

Have you never looked at an American crowd at a major sporting event and thought how patriotic it looks as they all hold their hand over their heart while singing their national anthem.  We used to have abide with me at cup finals which had the same effect, but now its sidelined to the northern shires at the Rugby League final.

Whats wrong with a bit national pride, most other countries have oodles of it.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

Its not living in the past Wowzz, its called nostalgia, and its existed for centuries, the bible is a prime example.  I don't believe that enjoying a trip down memory lane should be considered embarrassing, and singing patriotic songs is not jingoism. 

Have you never looked at an American crowd at a major sporting event and thought how patriotic it looks as they all hold their hand over their heart while singing their national anthem.  We used to have abide with me at cup finals which had the same effect, but now its sidelined to the northern shires at the Rugby League final.

Whats wrong with a bit national pride, most other countries have oodles of it.

"My country right or wrong?" Slippery slope I think.

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

"My country right or wrong?" Slippery slope I think.

Why does it have to be right or wrong, can't it just be a sense of national pride.

Edited February 21, 2020 by terrierjohn

[Harry Peterson]

8 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Why does it have to be right or wrong, can't it just be a sense of national pride.

The Scandinavians have a far greater sense of pride in their countries - but without feeling the need to be ostentatious about it.

 

If only the British sense of pride were translated into clean streets and pavements (like the rest of Europe), respect for the law, and respect for the courts.  That sense of pride isn't very obvious on the streets of most towns and cities, I'm afraid.  I only wish it were.

 

[wowzz]

21 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Why does it have to be right or wrong, can't it just be a sense of national pride.

National pride is fine,  as long as you are prepared to accept that your country can be wrong (like the UK under Blair) , and I'm not sure why singing a song is, in itself,  a sign of national pride.

Surely,  behaving as ambassadors for our country, treating other nationalities with respect,  having tolerance and understanding of other cultures, contributes far more to national pride than singing Rule Britannia and waving a plastic Union Jack whilst clutching a pint of John Smiths. 

[Bazrat]

4 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

The three of us normally join the choir on board which is great fun.  Until, that is, we are asked if we will sing at the GBS 😞  this entails singing White Cliffs of Dover, National Anthem and various other items.  We would rather not do it as we find it embarrassing, especially when moored near a German ship which has happened twice.  If only we could sing rousing songs that are not WWII songs that would be great.

I worked in Germany have very good friends there and they find attitudes like yours strange, they often say to us thanks for taking them out of a dark place.

[Bazrat]

54 minutes ago, wowzz said:

National pride is fine,  as long as you are prepared to accept that your country can be wrong (like the UK under Blair) , and I'm not sure why singing a song is, in itself,  a sign of national pride.

Surely,  behaving as ambassadors for our country, treating other nationalities with respect,  having tolerance and understanding of other cultures, contributes far more to national pride than singing Rule Britannia and waving a plastic Union Jack whilst clutching a pint of John Smiths. 

Uk voted for Blair multiple times in general election unlike you they can accept a democratic vote,I have worked in Austria Germany Italy France China USA Canada etc,I was asked once why are we not proud to be British your post answers that question.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Bazrat

[Harry Peterson]

6 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Uk voted for Blair multiple times in general election unlike you they can accept a democratic vote,I have worked in Austria Germany Italy France China USA Canada etc,I was asked once why are we not proud to be British your post answers that question.

 

6 hours ago, Bazrat said:

I worked in Germany have very good friends there and they find attitudes like yours strange, they often say to us thanks for taking them out of a dark place.

 

Bazrat, there are two very sensible, well reasoned posts there from Jean and Wowzz which you've somehow misinterpreted as suggesting not being proud to be British.  That's a very peculiar view of life you have there!

 

It's perfectly possible to be proud of one's country without ostentatious, and sometimes offensive, displays.  Think for example some football matches, and some beach holidays, where some British people (note the use of the word 'some') bring disgrace on the country by what they appear to see as patriotism.  

 

You can be patriotic without being offensive.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

You can be patriotic without being offensive.

Thank you Harry, my position exactly.

[wowzz]

7 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Uk voted for Blair multiple times in general election

Indeed, but that in itself does not give a leader carte blanche to manipulate the truth to suit his own purposes.

[brillo]

I still like the Great British sailaway and I find it very insulting that some of you feel that you should be able to force your very narrow minded views on the rest of us.

Try telling an American, Australian or Canadian that they cannot sing patriotic songs !!! 

[AndyMichelle]

13 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Xenophobic jingoistic comments some people come out with, alas the only time we went on a GBS everyone was enjoying themselves not the drunken idiots some comment on, nor did I hear any wartime songs must have missed those.

I know there have been some bad reports, but I think, to most people attending these, it is to have a cocktail, sing and dance and wave a flag.. 

I doubt anybody joining in means to cause offence, just their way of having a good time. 

I have not heard the WW2 songs, just the Proclaimers, Bucks Fizz etc... 

And, of course, sing with me... 

SWEET CAROLINE... 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, brillo said:

I still like the Great British sailaway and I find it very insulting that some of you feel that you should be able to force your very narrow minded views on the rest of us.

Try telling an American, Australian or Canadian that they cannot sing patriotic songs !!! 

Nobody’s saying that. It’s not what you sing but where you sing it, and if you sing something in a deliberately provocative way you do not enhance the reputation of your country. I’m not aware that the three nations you mention do this, but please enlighten us if you have examples.

 

Sorry, but yours is the outdated narrow minded view.

[kruzseeka]

8 minutes ago, brillo said:

I still like the Great British sailaway and I find it very insulting that some of you feel that you should be able to force your very narrow minded views on the rest of us.

Try telling an American, Australian or Canadian that they cannot sing patriotic songs !!! 

 

Surely it's a case of not what is done but how it's done.   Being patriotic does not mean offending other nations.  The Dambusters played whilst parked next to a German ship surely has undertones which are not very subtle especially when accompanied by salutes from some (albeit a few) passengers.  Like Jean, we have witnessed this on more than one occasion.  

Since when I've stopped going - not because I'm not patriotic but because I feel uncomfortable with what I've seen.  I don't think the Sailaway should necessarily disappear and have no wish to be a wet blanket on others' enjoyment - as has been suggested you can always give it a miss.  But the direction it has taken on some occasions has certainly allowed a few to demonstrate their lack of respect for others and inappropriate behaviour and has perhaps been the reason for its demise.  

I don't see why a Sailaway can't be patriotic (songs representing the home nations for example), some iconic songs to remind us of our history but forego those which seem to whip up the unpleasant references to events from which all nations involved have surely moved on.

[davecttr]

45 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Indeed, but that in itself does not give a leader carte blanche to manipulate the truth to suit his own purposes.

How true even today!

[Roger88]

Well, the Brexit just made it all difficult. I mean, I dont think that things will change in a crucial way but in general there shouldnt be a problem to do the things that we were doing before the Brexit

Edited February 22, 2020 by Roger88

[Harry Peterson]

6 minutes ago, davecttr said:

How true even today!

Particularly today!  David Dimbleby’s comments are getting wide coverage.

[Roger88]

9 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

The Scandinavians have a far greater sense of pride in their countries - but without feeling the need to be ostentatious about it.

 

If only the British sense of pride were translated into clean streets and pavements (like the rest of Europe), respect for the law, and respect for the courts.  That sense of pride isn't very obvious on the streets of most towns and cities, I'm afraid.  I only wish it were.

 

Trust me , there are way more "dirty" countries in the world. I mean UK is a paradise in comparison with like 90% of the world. Maybe not as good as the US but still quite clean and comfortable

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Well, the Brexit just made it all difficult. I mean, I dont think that things will change in a crucial way but in general there shouldnt be a problem to do the things that we were doing before the Brexit

Which things were those?

[brian1]

Why are all these German ships following P&O everywhere.I haven't seen any on Princess,Cunard or Marella.I think they're being confrontational,lol.

[brillo]

19 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Nobody’s saying that. It’s not what you sing but where you sing it, and if you sing something in a deliberately provocative way you do not enhance the reputation of your country. I’m not aware that the three nations you mention do this, but please enlighten us if you have examples.

 

Sorry, but yours is the outdated narrow minded view.

You have never been in New York or Boston on St Paddys day if you have not heard nationalistic and jingoistic songs, the Great British sailaway is a bit of fun some of you should loosen up.

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Roger88 said:

Trust me , there are way more "dirty" countries in the world. I mean UK is a paradise in comparison with like 90% of the world. Maybe not as good as the US but still quite clean and comfortable

Oh, I do love irony!