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Crown Princess - Speed Issues?

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23 minutes ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Although I don't think any of us know for sure.

IMO........I think the Crown issues may be similar to CB's.

 

Agree, sounds pretty similar. We'll know fairly soon, if they announce changed itineraries for the 15th and forward.

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19 minutes ago, skynight said:

Agree, sounds pretty similar. We'll know fairly soon, if they announce changed itineraries for the 15th and forward.

 

Will be interesting to find out if they change the itinerary on our TA in March.  Since we have 6 sea days before our first port, will they be a day late, just skip it or???

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I think you will miss a port (or 2). The priority will be to get to Europe  reasonably on time. 

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3 hours ago, thinfool said:

Propulsion motors require 1000's of kilowatts of power to run at a given speed.  If a generator is not functioning, the other generators must make up the difference.  If there are two propulsion generators, driven by diesel engines and one engine is offline for any reason, the other generator must run at top speed  at maximum output to reach the required speed.  

It is often true, as it is in the case of the Crown, that one engine/generator set cannot fully compensate for the lack of power (kilowatts) required to attain full cruising speed.  Both generators are required to do so.  

The generator in question is not/was not damaged.  The diesel engine that drives the generator had an unspecified event and is not working.  These diesels, for perspective, are roughly the size of a railroad boxcar.

We disembarked the Crown this morning.  The ship ran very well for our 10 day cruise...it did not run at a speed that allowed port times as originallly advertised.  We observed no more than 18 knots at any time during the voyage.

Princess is giving everyone onboard a FCC amounting to 35% of their base cruise fare paid against a current or future booking made no later than 1/31/2021.

I appreciate there is a connection and thanks for the details.  I think the root causes for each ship were different, no?

 

Anyway, it is the same end result for customers and hope can be solved soon.  

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How were you notified of the future cruise credit of 35%?  Was this for just that specific cruise that missed one stop because of generator problems and two because of weather?  I wasn't aware that the cruise lines ever offered FCC for these type of occurrences.

 

 

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On 1/13/2020 at 4:07 PM, NickCanadian said:

People are so gullible. Do you think this problem is just going to magically disappear? Of course Princess is not going to provide more than a month notification that way your stuck and still go on the cruise. This problem will not be solved until a dry dock. If their was a missing 'magical' part, it would have been machined within days and installed if this is in fact a 'generator' issue. I bet this boat wont be able to dock when there are certain winds as it probably doesn't have enough power to safety dock, but they will blame it on the weather. The real reason is the ship is broken and its too windy to dock with a broken ship.

I assume from your comments that you are in the marine diesel engine industry?  If you were, you would know that in many cases a part that fails, that is not a normal wear item, for instance like a crankshaft, can take up to 6 months to be manufactured, and then another month to be shipped to the vessel.  Not only does the part need to be manufactured, it needs to be tested and certified by the class society as meeting their requirements.  As for "enough power to safely dock", this is just wrong.  Crown Princess has 6 diesel generators, any and all of which can power the propulsion motors, the thrusters used for docking, or the hotel.  The hotel will need a bit less than one generator's capacity, the propulsion motors and thrusters, at the slow speeds used when entering harbors, and even using all thrusters at full power, will only require another two generators.  So, even with one generator out of service, there is more than adequate power to dock the ship.

13 hours ago, thinfool said:

Propulsion motors require 1000's of kilowatts of power to run at a given speed.  If a generator is not functioning, the other generators must make up the difference.  If there are two propulsion generators, driven by diesel engines and one engine is offline for any reason, the other generator must run at top speed  at maximum output to reach the required speed.  

It is often true, as it is in the case of the Crown, that one engine/generator set cannot fully compensate for the lack of power (kilowatts) required to attain full cruising speed.  Both generators are required to do so.  

The generator in question is not/was not damaged.  The diesel engine that drives the generator had an unspecified event and is not working.  These diesels, for perspective, are roughly the size of a railroad boxcar.

We disembarked the Crown this morning.  The ship ran very well for our 10 day cruise...it did not run at a speed that allowed port times as originallly advertised.  We observed no more than 18 knots at any time during the voyage.

Princess is giving everyone onboard a FCC amounting to 35% of their base cruise fare paid against a current or future booking made no later than 1/31/2021.

As noted above, Crown has 6 diesel generators, any or all of which can power the propulsion, but you are correct that with one diesel generator out of service, there is not enough generating capacity to drive the propulsion motors at full power.  I am assuming that since you are onboard, that you were told it was a problem with a diesel, as I haven't seen any definitive word on that, though I haven't searched hard for it.

 

For those comparing this to the Caribbean Princess problem a year or so ago, it is not the same at all.  The propulsion motors (electric motors) that actually drive the propellers, are essentially two motors inside each other (so 4 motors, two on each propeller) and each of these "nested" motors provides half the power to the propeller.  One of these motors, on one propeller burned out, so that propeller could only provide half power.  In order to keep vibrations and steering problems down, the other propeller was run at reduced power as well, limiting the top speed of the ship.  So, in this case, while there was enough generating capacity to provide the power to move the ship at full speed, the motors could not use this power fully.  This repair required new motor windings to be fabricated (at least 6 months lead time), and then the ship was docked in a shipyard for 4 weeks while a hole the size of your living room was carved in the side to allow the parts to be moved into/out of the ship.

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13 hours ago, Jemnibabe said:

 

Will be interesting to find out if they change the itinerary on our TA in March.  Since we have 6 sea days before our first port, will they be a day late, just skip it or???

FLL to the Azores requires 18.5 knots to keep the itinerary, and Azores to Brest about the same.  So, it would be tight, and not sure whether they would just cancel the Azores, saving 9 hours, or push back/cancel later ports.  But, that's not to say they won't have the engine fixed by then.

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34 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

FLL to the Azores requires 18.5 knots to keep the itinerary, and Azores to Brest about the same.  So, it would be tight, and not sure whether they would just cancel the Azores, saving 9 hours, or push back/cancel later ports.  But, that's not to say they won't have the engine fixed by then.

 

Thank you so much for your very knowledgable information. That is so much better than everyone guessing about things they really  know nothing about.  Are you saying with the problem you laid out, it might be possible to have it fixed in the next 2 months?  Is it something that needs several days in port to repair?  Thanks again, for all your information

 

Judy from SW Florida

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5 minutes ago, Jemnibabe said:

 

Thank you so much for your very knowledgable information. That is so much better than everyone guessing about things they really  know nothing about.  Are you saying with the problem you laid out, it might be possible to have it fixed in the next 2 months?  Is it something that needs several days in port to repair?  Thanks again, for all your information

 

Judy from SW Florida

If it is a generator engine problem, it could easily be fixed any time during the next couple of months, while remaining in service, since the engine is already down.  Even if it is a major item like a crankshaft replacement, it would only take a day if a small opening was needed in the hull to get that large part in.  Several ships have done large item replacements with at most a day delay in port (Carnival did some thruster repairs in Galveston a couple of years ago) that required cutting a hole in the hull.  NCL had a crankshaft replacement done in Barcelona, with only a day delay for cutting and welding the opening.  A complete overhaul of the engines (which happen routinely every 2 years, and happens while the ship is in service) take about 3-4 weeks, so this can fit the timetable, if parts are available.  As noted, the only disruption to schedule would be if they needed to cut an opening to get a large part into the ship.

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

  I am assuming that since you are onboard, that you were told it was a problem with a diesel,

A letter from the captain, waiting in our cabin when we embarked on Jan 6 clearly stated that it was a problem with a diesel (not generator) that interfered with the port schedule.  It further informed us that the stop at Princess Cays was canceled and everyone would receive a $75. credit for the cancelation.  Princess considered the cancelation a maintenance related issue rather than a weather issue.

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35 minutes ago, thinfool said:

A letter from the captain, waiting in our cabin when we embarked on Jan 6 clearly stated that it was a problem with a diesel (not generator) that interfered with the port schedule.  It further informed us that the stop at Princess Cays was canceled and everyone would receive a $75. credit for the cancelation.  Princess considered the cancelation a maintenance related issue rather than a weather issue.

Thanks.  If this did happen on the 12/27 sailing, we are still in the time window of a full overhaul of the engine, so it may not be that major a problem, and may be corrected within the next couple of weeks.

Edited by chengkp75

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We are on the Sky, last sea day going toward Ft Lauderdale.

just this minute the Crown passed us going south on the starboard side 

Both ships saluted each other with their horn blasts.

Fun to see 

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If it is a generator engine problem, it could easily be fixed any time during the next couple of months, while remaining in service, since the engine is already down.  Even if it is a major item like a crankshaft replacement, it would only take a day if a small opening was needed in the hull to get that large part in.  Several ships have done large item replacements with at most a day delay in port (Carnival did some thruster repairs in Galveston a couple of years ago) that required cutting a hole in the hull.  NCL had a crankshaft replacement done in Barcelona, with only a day delay for cutting and welding the opening.  A complete overhaul of the engines (which happen routinely every 2 years, and happens while the ship is in service) take about 3-4 weeks, so this can fit the timetable, if parts are available.  As noted, the only disruption to schedule would be if they needed to cut an opening to get a large part into the ship.

I've been waiting for you to chime in, as we are sailing on the Crown on 2/15.

Thank you for sharing your insight. It is greatly appreciated.

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Thanks.  If this did happen on the 12/27 sailing, we are still in the time window of a full overhaul of the engine, so it may not be that major a problem, and may be corrected within the next couple of weeks.

It happened prior to 12/27 sailing.  I was on that cruise and we were notified prior to departure that we would not be calling on Grenada because the could not reach full speed.  A generator issue was cited as the cause.  According to my gps, we maintained 19+ kts throughout much of the 10 days.

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15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If it is a generator engine problem, it could easily be fixed any time during the next couple of months, while remaining in service, since the engine is already down.  Even if it is a major item like a crankshaft replacement, it would only take a day if a small opening was needed in the hull to get that large part in.  Several ships have done large item replacements with at most a day delay in port (Carnival did some thruster repairs in Galveston a couple of years ago) that required cutting a hole in the hull.  NCL had a crankshaft replacement done in Barcelona, with only a day delay for cutting and welding the opening.  A complete overhaul of the engines (which happen routinely every 2 years, and happens while the ship is in service) take about 3-4 weeks, so this can fit the timetable, if parts are available.  As noted, the only disruption to schedule would be if they needed to cut an opening to get a large part into the ship.

Thanks for rolling in on this!

 

Cheers

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19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

FLL to the Azores requires 18.5 knots to keep the itinerary, and Azores to Brest about the same.  So, it would be tight, and not sure whether they would just cancel the Azores, saving 9 hours, or push back/cancel later ports.  But, that's not to say they won't have the engine fixed by then.

Doing the TA wouldn't they have to stop at the Azores for fuel and food after 6 sea days??

Thanks

Kathy

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19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

For those comparing this to the Caribbean Princess problem a year or so ago, it is not the same at all.  The propulsion motors (electric motors) that actually drive the propellers, are essentially two motors inside each other (so 4 motors, two on each propeller) and each of these "nested" motors provides half the power to the propeller.  One of these motors, on one propeller burned out, so that propeller could only provide half power.  In order to keep vibrations and steering problems down, the other propeller was run at reduced power as well, limiting the top speed of the ship.  So, in this case, while there was enough generating capacity to provide the power to move the ship at full speed, the motors could not use this power fully.  This repair required new motor windings to be fabricated (at least 6 months lead time), and then the ship was docked in a shipyard for 4 weeks while a hole the size of your living room was carved in the side to allow the parts to be moved into/out of the ship.

 

No hole was required, parts came in/out via the normal cargo doors.

 

New and old windings were brought down/up into the PEM one at a time via the stairs.

 

 

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4 hours ago, rabin1 said:

Doing the TA wouldn't they have to stop at the Azores for fuel and food after 6 sea days??

Thanks

Kathy

No, they normally wouldn't refuel at the Azores, and food for another few days would not be required, it could be loaded in FLL.

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So what is the prognosis on this in the long term?  The reason I am asking is that we have a cruise scheduled for 16 March 2020 and one of the key ports, and reason we picked this itinerary, is Grenada.  Looking at the changes that have happened in January I am not feeling so hot.  

 

Do folks who are familiar with troubleshooting and repair of these types of issue(s) have a gut feeling on Princess' way forward?

 

Thanks in advance

Steve & Vicky 

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23 minutes ago, GonzoWCS said:

So what is the prognosis on this in the long term?  The reason I am asking is that we have a cruise scheduled for 16 March 2020 and one of the key ports, and reason we picked this itinerary, is Grenada.  Looking at the changes that have happened in January I am not feeling so hot.  

 

Do folks who are familiar with troubleshooting and repair of these types of issue(s) have a gut feeling on Princess' way forward?

 

Thanks in advance

Steve & Vicky 

All I can say is that we have not been advised of any itinerary changes for our Feb 15th and 25th cruises. I think right now information posted and the technical expertise of Chengkp75 is all we can go by.

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56 minutes ago, GonzoWCS said:

So what is the prognosis on this in the long term?  The reason I am asking is that we have a cruise scheduled for 16 March 2020 and one of the key ports, and reason we picked this itinerary, is Grenada.  Looking at the changes that have happened in January I am not feeling so hot.  

 

Do folks who are familiar with troubleshooting and repair of these types of issue(s) have a gut feeling on Princess' way forward?

 

Thanks in advance

Steve & Vicky 

Really hard to say, without knowing what failed.  But, if this happened late in December, I would really suspect that it will be repaired by the end of February at the latest.

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Has anyone heard how the current cruise Is going?  Are they missing any stops?  

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1 minute ago, ccndfw said:

Has anyone heard how the current cruise Is going?  Are they missing any stops?  

I have been watching as I can on their web cam and it seems late in some days and out early

Kathy

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So I'm on a 10 day on March 6th I think I will sign up for Travel insurance with miss a port just in case!

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30 minutes ago, cyndyga said:

So I'm on a 10 day on March 6th I think I will sign up for Travel insurance with miss a port just in case!

Can you purchase travel insurance which covers some compensation for missing a port? Just asking.

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