Facing South Florida - Carnival Pollution

[BNBR]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It is way too early to tell whether this is correct or not.  They had a compliance officer before, who had the responsibility, but not the authority, to enforce compliance.  And, based on the January hearing, the judge is not convinced that the company is moving in the right direction, though I would say from personal experience, that this is going to take a long time (which is why the DOJ sets up a 5 year probation), and that violations will continue to happen, but the important thing is the process, whereby the company learns from its mistakes and writes improvements to policies and procedures to prevent them from happening again.

 

Arison and Donald were both at the previous hearing as well, which may have been in October and not December (memory fading), but that makes the TV segment that much more out of date.

 

The TV segment aired 4 days after their most recent hearing.  I don't find that out of date.  They discussed the new compliance officer as well.

[SERK]

44 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If you look at the court appointed monitor's report for the first two years of probation, there were 22 Carnival ships that had at least one environmental violation, spread over nearly every brand at Carnival.

Then again, according to some folks in government, cows are in violation of the environment from passing gas. 😂

[chengkp75]

20 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

The TV segment aired 4 days after their most recent hearing.  I don't find that out of date.  They discussed the new compliance officer as well.

When the segment aired in relation to the latest hearing is inconsequential, if they did not cover anything from that hearing or the December 19 (checked the date) hearing, at which the judge gave Carnival praise for some of their actions towards compliance.  Where was any mention of this?  I'm not defending Carnival or its actions (see my posts in the linked thread and others on various Carnival brand boards (and even NCL board) that discuss this, but just saying that this is not new, and is somewhat slanted, as unfortunately much reporting is these days.  But, whether it is old news or not, there has been a lot of discussion and coverage of the topic here on CC, ever since the 2016 plea bargain.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, SERK said:

Then again, according to some folks in government, cows are in violation of the environment from passing gas. 😂

As one who has to work every day under the environmental laws of the US, and the international agreements on the environment, I applaud the requirements that are currently in place in the maritime industry, and this despite the amount of headaches they cause me professionally.  I cannot condone any of the violations that Carnival ships did, ranging from oil pollution, to air pollution, to plastic dumping, to gray water and refrigerant discharges in places where they should not be discharged, and in particular, the fact that even when on probation, they tried to cover up the violations rather than report them as accidental and report the measures taken to prevent them in the future.

[FSHLOT]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I personally didn't see anything new in the video that hasn't been discussed by me here on CC.  I did see a few minor points that were incorrect, but not enough to get into a further discussion about.

 

I wasn't directing that at you, i was talking as a whole. In all reality i take your opinion on ships and the way they operate more then anyone else. I just remember that last thread when most people were chiming in with their bias opinion. 

[jimbo5544]

11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As one who has to work every day under the environmental laws of the US, and the international agreements on the environment, I applaud the requirements that are currently in place in the maritime industry, and this despite the amount of headaches they cause me professionally.  I cannot condone any of the violations that Carnival ships did, ranging from oil pollution, to air pollution, to plastic dumping, to gray water and refrigerant discharges in places where they should not be discharged, and in particular, the fact that even when on probation, they tried to cover up the violations rather than report them as accidental and report the measures taken to prevent them in the future.

I think you have been more than fair with your assessment on the original thread(s), this clip really did not tell me anything new.  This was def not a Mike Wallace and a 60 minute piece 

[Swampbabe]

18 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As one who has to work every day under the environmental laws of the US, and the international agreements on the environment, I applaud the requirements that are currently in place in the maritime industry, and this despite the amount of headaches they cause me professionally.  I cannot condone any of the violations that Carnival ships did, ranging from oil pollution, to air pollution, to plastic dumping, to gray water and refrigerant discharges in places where they should not be discharged, and in particular, the fact that even when on probation, they tried to cover up the violations rather than report them as accidental and report the measures taken to prevent them in the future.

They just dumped gray water in Port Canaveral last week. Said it was an "accident"

[BNBR]

7 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I think you have been more than fair with your assessment on the original thread(s), this clip really did not tell me anything new.  This was def not a Mike Wallace and a 60 minute piece 

 

It wasn't meant to tell YOU anything new.  He actually addresses that in his opening statement.  It's for those who aren't up to speed or aware of what is going on.  Someone who has read all the reporting isn't going to hear much new.  Heck, he even had the person doing the reporting as the guest, to bring viewers up to speed.

[jimbo5544]

57 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

It wasn't meant to tell YOU anything new.  He actually addresses that in his opening statement.  It's for those who aren't up to speed or aware of what is going on.  Someone who has read all the reporting isn't going to hear much new.  Heck, he even had the person doing the reporting as the guest, to bring viewers up to speed.

Just stating my opinion, you implied you learned a lot, I waited till we got home to watch the whole thing.  Does this guy have a regular on one of the Miami channels?

 

[BNBR]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Just stating my opinion, you implied you learned a lot, I waited till we got home to watch the whole thing.  Does this guy have a regular on one of the Miami channels?

 

 

Yup, every week he does this program on local and State issues.  It's an investigative program and really quite good.  He is great about being unbiased which is why I enjoy it.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Swampbabe said:

They just dumped gray water in Port Canaveral last week. Said it was an "accident"

I sense that that you doubt them?

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Swampbabe said:

They just dumped gray water in Port Canaveral last week. Said it was an "accident"

Yes, and despite the reporting, it was treated gray water (since it came from storage in a ballast tank, and you cannot store untreated gray water in a ballast tank), and it was caused by a valve malfunction.  All ships at any time can have an accidental discharge of something.  The really important thing is that Carnival reported it (since it was most likely undetectable), and because the investigation into the discharge showed it was an unforeseeable accident, there is no fine placed for this.

[Swampbabe]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

I sense that that you doubt them?

With their track record?

[Swampbabe]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, and despite the reporting, it was treated gray water (since it came from storage in a ballast tank, and you cannot store untreated gray water in a ballast tank), and it was caused by a valve malfunction.  All ships at any time can have an accidental discharge of something.  The really important thing is that Carnival reported it (since it was most likely undetectable), and because the investigation into the discharge showed it was an unforeseeable accident, there is no fine placed for this.

Thanks for the info. My concern comes from the fact that I live here and we have enough crap (sometimes literally) flowing into our river and ocean.

[jimbo5544]

40 minutes ago, Swampbabe said:

With their track record?

I am not going to defend their past performance, I do think post 62 answers it best.  Sometimes “stuff” does happen.  We can attack their stumbles (there will be more, it is not an easy correction), or we can watch and applaud positive steps (or do nothing).  They did dig this big hole, but there are positive steps, some will see these. Some will think the problems continue, some will bash, and some will applaud the positive steps, in the end it is up to each of us.

Edited January 14, 2020 by jimbo5544

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

Old News, Carnival has taken great strides into correcting its issues. 

[Thorncroft]

9 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Old News, Carnival has taken great strides into correcting its issues. 

 

Yes, that's why they keep being dragged into court to be brow beaten by the judge. 

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

 

Yes, that's why they keep being dragged into court to be brow beaten by the judge. 

Actually, these are regularly scheduled court dates lately, and as I said, the judge praised Carnival's actions in December.

[evandbob]

And SWFL has enough water issues of its own due to red tide in the Gulf waters and blue green algae in the Calaloosahatchie River.

 

We moved to Ft Myers in March of 2018 and witnessed the longest lasting blooms of both toxins in what used to be fairly pristine waters.  They needed bulldozers to scoop up all the dead fish, sea turtles, dolphins, manatees and yes, even a whale shark that died and washed up on our beaches.

 

Hopefully, those toxins won't return in that magnitude and corrective measures will be implemented.  We don't need another source of any pollution at all. Fort Myers and Sanibel beaches were deserted, hotels and restaurants emptied, and the Harry Chapin food bank was overwhelmed attempting to feed all the laid off workers.  Now that we are back to "normal", we're hoping it will stay that way.  

 

No more polluting of any kind!

 

 

[jimbo5544]

On 1/13/2020 at 9:04 AM, PhillyFan33579 said:

If/when Carnival is hit with serious sanctions, I will concede your opinion and the video is correct. But anything short of restricting them from using US ports is not going to hurt them. Carnival can easily handle a fine no matter how large it is or deal with any kind of probation. You are naive if you think a judge is going to implement sanctions so severe that they would jeopardize the future survival of Carnival. 

I said in the original thread(s) and I will say it here.  While it is conceivable that a penalty of restricting Carnival from a US port or a sanction that could cause Carnival considerable pain, then is not one chance in hell that either of these will occur.  Carnival has been a poor performer, they have been brought to court at the highest level, they have made significant changes and have had significant positive progress, so much so that the judge in charge who has been very vocal in a negative way in the past was very complimentary at the last get together.  Thoughts that this is Armageddon by the op or anyone else are ill founded.  At the end of the day, Carnival has been a poor performer (the motives and or reasons are unimportant for this discussion) and talked the talk without walking the walk.  Indications are they are making positive progress to get on track.

[jimbo5544]

24 minutes ago, evandbob said:

And SWFL has enough water issues of its own due to red tide in the Gulf waters and blue green algae in the Calaloosahatchie River.

 

We moved to Ft Myers in March of 2018 and witnessed the longest lasting blooms of both toxins in what used to be fairly pristine waters.  They needed bulldozers to scoop up all the dead fish, sea turtles, dolphins, manatees and yes, even a whale shark that died and washed up on our beaches.

 

Hopefully, those toxins won't return in that magnitude and corrective measures will be implemented.  We don't need another source of any pollution at all. Fort Myers and Sanibel beaches were deserted, hotels and restaurants emptied, and the Harry Chapin food bank was overwhelmed attempting to feed all the laid off workers.  Now that we are back to "normal", we're hoping it will stay that way.  

 

No more polluting of any kind!

 

 

I did not know we were neighbors....😁, but our problems are def not from Carnival.....

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, these are regularly scheduled court dates lately, and as I said, the judge praised Carnival's actions in December.

lol, sometimes we just cannot help ourselves but to drag in that dead horse and beat her again........

[BNBR]

7 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I did not know we were neighbors....😁, but our problems are def not from Carnival.....

Definitely not from Carnival.  Red tide and massive fish kills from it have been going on since before we kept records.  It's natural.  No "corrective measures" are going to fix that.

 

https://myfwc.com/research/redtide/faq/

 

Now, pumping millions of gallons of sewage in to the New River in Ft Lauderdale....  Not Carnival either, but what a dang mess.

[BNBR]

12 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thoughts that this is Armageddon by the op or anyone else are ill founded.  

 

I have not said anything of the sort.

[Thorncroft]

23 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

lol, sometimes we just cannot help ourselves but to drag in that dead horse and beat her again........

 

Gathering around the dead horse in eulogy is what teaches us how not to repeat the mistakes that killed said horse. Unless there is an inexplicable determination to kill the entire herd.