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exactorman51

Who is responsible for bad excursion

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13 hours ago, njkruzer said:

On a Celebrity cruise several years ago and a tour in Roatan, I think, felt that it was incorrectly labeled as an easy walk when it should have been at least medium and possibly difficult.  I politely let shore excursions know, think they had me put in writing.  Wasn't looking for a refund, just suggesting they change description.   I was surprised when I got a partial refund.   Didn't ask for anything.  Sometimes I think it's how you approach the issue and not demanding something. 

 

This is similar to what happened to us on a Royal excursion.  We had an issue that came up with the second half of an excursion at a beach and bar, before returning to the ship.  When we arrived at the beach bar we wanted to grab a couple of chairs on the beach and relax (as the excursion stated) but the beach bar said we could not have seats on the beach without paying for them. We then tried to sit at the picnic tables and they said not without buying food and drinks (which we had no issue with doing but we had planned to chill out for a bit and then get drinks).  To get four drinks and one appetizer it cost us just over $80.  All to be allowed to sit down for the couple of hours of the second half of the excursion...even though it was described as a beach break with seats, etc.  I did email and tell them that the beach bar had security that would not allow us to sit down at all without making a purchase even though we had already paid for the excursion and then we had to pay an additional $80 to sit at the picnic tables as we had to make some type of purchase...it was ridiculous but I emailed politely and did not ask for anything, just explained the situation.  Royal refunded me, and the other couple, 50% of the excursion fee and apologized.  I think it has more to do with the way they are approached.

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8 hours ago, Gwendy said:

Things happen, look the other way if it offends you.  Please don’t go to Asia or Africa if you are so easily upset.  Third world countries, people do what they have  to do to get by.

 

This.

 

Most of Asia, men need to urinate, they do, right out in the open.

 

Oh, and don't do a sauna in Germany or Austria.  You may be told to leave or get naked, like everyone else in there.  Or if they don't say something, they will give you the stink eye for not knowing the local customs.

 

Hmm, pictures of the naked man, but no pictures posted of the "chicken coop."   Or are those inappropriate for some reason?

 

And many plantations have chicken coops. 🙂

 

 

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Thanks to all who responded. I wanted to see if people would think I was over-reacting. It is split but I understand that it is not a big deal to RCL or some other cruisers. I stick to my beliefs but am  glad to hear from the other side.Thanks to those who seriously gave me their kind and honest opinions. To those who feel they had to be sarcastic or downright mean to me, glad to be able to give you a chuckle. I am sure you post on boards like this all day hoping someone will like your post. Good luck for that! You must be terribly lonely people.

Edited by exactorman51

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exactorman-yea we are on a fixed income also and are pretty much raising our granddaughter who will be 13 so I know about money and lack of.  I booked an excursion thru a private company in Falmouth and will never book outside the cruise line again.  And guess what, we did not get any kind of refund or apology for that either.  Enjoy whatever cruise line you go to.  They all have good things and bad things that happen.

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We had a bad excursion after our May cruise in Alaska, which was supposed to be a tour of Seattle and airport drop off.  The tour was laughable.  The driver/guide even did a hit & run on a parked school bus.  He kept going - many of us took pictures.  Because we were  not returning to the ship we were unable to complain onboard.  Believe me, I would have insisted on talking to an officer as the people at the desk have very little power to make changes.  Calling the shore office was a waste.  They took my information and I do think they were interested as they asked the name of the driver.  We had pictures of the damage to the bus, the bus license plate and the driver himself with his name badge.  They seemed to be particularly interested that there was only a driver and no guide, so I do think it will make a difference to future tours.  He dropped us off at a few places (not as advertised on the tour description) , did not tell us where we were or what we were supposed to do and then took off returning when he told us to meet him.  We asked for a refund, but never got anywhere.  Despite all of that I will continue to cruise RCI as this was one bad bleep on the history of our cruising.  We usually book private tours but did this one strictly for convenience.  We have done other RCI tours and this was the only bad one.

 

As far as the naked man goes, you are in Jamaica and things are not treated the same as in the states.  I would have chalked that up to part of the experience of visiting that country.  

Edited by Sunny AZ Girl

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12 hours ago, crookedhalo said:

  After a bit it came to be known that the provider had over booked so they got a 'buddy' to use his boat (not approved by CL) to take a second trip (hence later departure) and then had a bunch of cabbies just 'tour' us around.  We got 75% of our excursion refunded.

I think that is exactly what happened in our case (post above).  The company overbooked.  The company had two buses, but only one driver and one guide.  From talking to the guy at RCI it appeared we were supposed to have both a driver and a guide.  In talking with friends who were on the other bus, they had a great time.  Their driver/guide was entertaining and explained everything to them thoroughly.  Apparently, he also was able to talk and drive at the same time, unlike our driver.  When asked to explain the sights we were passing our driver said that he wasn't supposed to talk while driving.  He hit the school bus when someone asked him a question.  It was most upsetting that he refused to stop at the time.  However, our bus was damaged enough that when we stopped later at a Starbucks (historic one, but never explained to us) he had to call for a new bus as it was too damaged to return to the airport.  He never did ask if any of us were hurt.  He just said "these things happen sometimes" and kept going.  I am hoping the school bus was empty.  It appeared to be.  I do agree that in a busy city like Seattle there should have been a separate driver and guide.  And I do believe that Royal's shoreside took our complaints seriously and followed up on this as we did get a call with questions regarding the driver/guide situation and the accident.  That is when we sent the pictures.  However, compensation was never offered to us.  I suggested it, but did not demand it.  I was more concerned about the safety of the tour, to be honest.  

 

Also, it was interesting that several people from our group chose to take Uber to the airport from Starbucks rather than chance it with this driver.  

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18 minutes ago, vacationlover_mn said:

We’ve had one bad excursion.  We talked to the customer service counter, and they refunded us.

I think as long as you approach excursions desk in a polite way you usually get satisfaction. 

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@exactorman51 Unless I missed it, I don't think you ever indicated what the reactions of other people with you were. Did you try to round up anyone else to go to the excursion desk? Some people have said that they are more responsive to complaints from a larger group.

 

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On 1/16/2020 at 10:00 PM, exactorman51 said:

I first want to say that the cruise and most of the onboard staff were fine, some excellent. However, we had an experience that was totally unacceptable. 

We booked an excursion, Go Native Jamaica, through the excursion desk on the ship. This excursion was a disaster from the start. The bus broke down and we had to change buses. We were supposed to spend 1 hour and 40 minutes on the bus but were on for over 4 and 1/2 hours. We were supposed to visit a plantation and farm which turned out to be a smelly, dirty chicken coop. We had a meal included that was mediocre to say the least and you had to pay extra $3 for water more for other drinks.

 

But, the worst was when we visited Saint James Church in Falmouth. A completely naked man was lying in the middle of our walk to the church. I would post pictures but have been told they are inappropriate, I did send them to some RCL Executives. We are infirm seniors. My wife was traumatized I was disgusted. We informed the excursion host and he refused to have the man removed. I immediately contacted RCCL head offices in our return. I received a call from a low level inarticulate employee who offered an insincere apology. At the very least, I thought the cost of the excursion should have been refunded and we should have received an apology from a Senior Executive.

 

My wife and I  do not think we should have been subjected to such treatment. We will never cruise with RCCL again. I just wondered if if anyone believes the cruise ship holds any liability for a disastrous excursion.

 

I understand you are upset About this and you´ve made up your mind About cruising RCI in the future. While I have a different take on this I want to say I applaude you for your decision, as for you I think it´s the Right Thing to do. If you are unhappy vote with your wallet. Don´t give your hard earned Money to someone you don´t want to deal with. All too often we read the complaints here and the threats to never cruise RCI again and then they Keep coming back. So kudos to you for this decision.

 

However you asked for opinions and I´ll give you mine. While unfortunate but technical failures do happen. So I would file away the bus break down as just some bad luck without having to put some real blame on anyone. The place you visited I´ll give you the Edge of the doubt on that one, as it´s hard to tell without knowing the exact tour description and the place you´ve been to. I´ve been to places on excursions I had a very different expectation About, which resulted in disappointment, though we went to the exact place described. As for the lunch, again I don´t know what exactly was promised in the tour description in regards of Food and especially Drinks. Personally I try to avoid excursions with meals included. I´m a picky eater and would likely not enjoy whatever they give me. So Food is very very subjective.

Now for the naked man, which I think was the straw that broke the Camels back for you, That is the one incident I don´t see any blame on anyone. This is something neither the tour Operator nor the cruise line could avoid. Personally I would have just chuckled over this, but nakedness is no offense to me. I´m really used to seeing naked People and I´m one of those who would never enter a Sauna dressed and if I´d go to beaches I might Chose a Nudist one. But we are all different and I don´t blame you for not wanting this sight.

As for the Suggestion of calling the authorities - I don´t know the laws and authorities in Jamaica, but could it be that this is something they´d not do anything About?

On a Little lighthearted note - How much more "Native" could your tour have gone?😉

 

To sum it up you weren´t happy and as you should have you have told RCI About it. I´m not sure if all of this should have deserved any more Attention By RCI than it did. Mot important however, you have made a decision and for your own Peace of mind you should move on from that decision and stop Looking back. 

 

Happy cruising on whatever line and ship and best of luck with that decision.

 

 

 

 

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Getting upset about a naked person, reminds me of my cousin.  He was about 9 or 10 at the time.  My parents, and two of my mother's sisters (one the mother of my cousin) and my cousin were traveling in Europe.

 

They are on a boat on Lake Geneva, and my cousin and Dad are standing by a railing, overlooking some ladies sunbathing.  And as is usual in much of Europe, a number of them were topless.

 

My aunt (his mother) came over to talk to them about something, and noticed the topless ladies.  And exclaimed, "They are topless."   Her son, in his Joe Cool sunglasses turns to her and says, "Yeah, we noticed."  And turned back to watch.

 

My Dad just about fell over the railing he was laughing so hard.

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13 hours ago, njkruzer said:

I think as long as you approach excursions desk in a polite way you usually get satisfaction. 

Also, on one cruise long ago, be both got Noro.  They pro-actively refunded us the cost of all our excursions, and comped us the cost of the bottled water in our room 🙂 that we drank.  Not a great cruise for us, but it was GREAT customer service 🙂

Edited by vacationlover_mn

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@exactorman51  Still no answer about whether any other pax on the excursion were as upset or believed it to be so bad as to deserve a full refund? This is the 4th request or so about that information. I am wondering if you tried to talk to them about it at all. Did they just go with the flow and laugh off the "overexposure"?

 

Also, I was taken aback by the difference between your initial post and a later one. Your first post began:

 

"I first want to say that the cruise and most of the onboard staff were fine, some excellent."

 

Later, you wrote:

 

"I did like our waiter and cabin steward. I found the food mediocre and most other elements nothing special. The crew other than the workers were aloof and not a lot of fun."

 

From the cruise and crew being "fine" and "excellent" your description diminished to "mediocre," "nothing special,"  and "aloof and not a lot of fun."

 

In answering your initial question--seeking opinions about whether people think the ship should be liable for the "disastrous excursion"--I think many people here obviously believe RC should be willing to reimburse for things not delivered as promised. But they also seem to suggest pretty heavily against actually getting RC to do anything about it. Many have stated their own stories and while some received compensation, most got no further than you did. (I was surprised at this because I have heard otherwise from some people we have talked to, but that may have been Celebrity.)

 

The responses you contend were mean to you or unsympathetic were uniformly about the naked man. Bottom line, you want to hold RC liable for the excursion operator's failure to ensure you were not seeing a Jamaican not in their employ who was in an area not in their control. Do you really not see the huge difference between something you were not delivered (the promised excursion, plantation, food, etc) and the failure to police property not theirs? The days of tourists successfully ordering islanders to clean up their culture went out with colonialism. Insisting that you have the right to tour another country and not be subjected to things you don't want to see...well, can't you even chuckle at how arrogant that comes across?

 

Anyway, the stuff quoted above seems to me to show that you have let the excursion paint your emotional reaction to the entire cruise. A change from "fine" to "mediocre" is a significant drop in satisfaction. If the first is accurate, I would think an excursion is not a reason to blackball a cruiseline that did well overall. If it was as poor overall as you say, then certainly cruising elsewhere is your better bet.

 

But, please, other than perhaps the cruise director running games, how was the crew supposed to be "a lot of fun"? We have only been on 4 cruises, and the entertainment has been fun, a guacamole class was humorous, a coffee steward singing "Good Morning!" was a blast, and a few clerks in stores have been amusing. But we didn't expect our fun to come from the crew. What was missing for you?

Edited by mayleeman

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7 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

@exactorman51  Still no answer about whether any other pax on the excursion were as upset or believed it to be so bad as to deserve a full refund? This is the 4th request or so about that information. I am wondering if you tried to talk to them about it at all. Did they just go with the flow and laugh off the "overexposure"?

 

Also, I was taken aback by the difference between your initial post and a later one. Your first post began:

 

"I first want to say that the cruise and most of the onboard staff were fine, some excellent."

 

Later, you wrote:

 

"I did like our waiter and cabin steward. I found the food mediocre and most other elements nothing special. The crew other than the workers were aloof and not a lot of fun."

 

From the cruise and crew being "fine" and "excellent" your description diminished to "mediocre," "nothing special,"  and "aloof and not a lot of fun."

 

In answering your initial question--seeking opinions about whether people think the ship should be liable for the "disastrous excursion"--I think many people here obviously believe RC should be willing to reimburse for things not delivered as promised. But they also seem to suggest pretty heavily against actually getting RC to do anything about it. Many have stated their own stories and while some received compensation, most got no further than you did. (I was surprised at this because I have heard otherwise from some people we have talked to, but that may have been Celebrity.)

 

The responses you contend were mean to you or unsympathetic were uniformly about the naked man. Bottom line, you want to hold RC liable for the excursion operator's failure to ensure you were not seeing a Jamaican not in their employ who was in an area not in their control. Do you really not see the huge difference between something you were not delivered (the promised excursion, plantation, food, etc) and the failure to police property not theirs? The days of tourists successfully ordering islanders to clean up their culture went out with colonialism. Insisting that you have the right to tour another country and not be subjected to things you don't want to see...well, can't you even chuckle at how arrogant that comes across?

 

Anyway, the stuff quoted above seems to me to show that you have let the excursion paint your emotional reaction to the entire cruise. A change from "fine" to "mediocre" is a significant drop in satisfaction. If the first is accurate, I would think an excursion is not a reason to blackball a cruiseline that did well overall. If it was as poor overall as you say, then certainly cruising elsewhere is your better bet.

 

But, please, other than perhaps the cruise director running games, how was the crew supposed to be "a lot of fun"? We have only been on 4 cruises, and the entertainment has been fun, a guacamole class was humorous, a coffee steward singing "Good Morning!" was a blast, and a few clerks in stores have been amusing. But we didn't expect our fun to come from the crew. What was missing for you?

It seemed to me that about 75% of the group were unhappy. I saw one guy in a heated discussion with the host. Whether or not they complained, I do not know. I believe I had said in one of my responses we were told it would be dealt with after the fact.

 

Fine to me is mediocre. I stated that only the waiter and cabin steward were exceptional. As I said we are seniors on limited income and I do not think we got good value for our money. Certainly, the lousy tour was enough for me to say our next cruise will be on another line. I just wanted to know what people thought. I got various reactions but seemed to see that this kind of thing happens regularly and it is par for the course. I thank those who responded and did not make it personal. I hope the moderator will close this topic.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, exactorman51 said:

It seemed to me that about 75% of the group were unhappy. I saw one guy in a heated discussion with the host. Whether or not they complained, I do not know. I believe I had said in one of my responses we were told it would be dealt with after the fact.

 

Fine to me is mediocre. I stated that only the waiter and cabin steward were exceptional. As I said we are seniors on limited income and I do not think we got good value for our money. Certainly, the lousy tour was enough for me to say our next cruise will be on another line. I just wanted to know what people thought. I got various reactions but seemed to see that this kind of thing happens regularly and it is par for the course. I thank those who responded and did not make it personal. I hope the moderator will close this topic.

 

 

Just out of curiosity of what Royal would not offer, would you clarify what you would have accepted as suitable empathy?

 

You originally were dismissive of staff employees offering you an apology.  Is your wish list really a call from a Senior Executive?

 

Did you complain about the other elements of the tour that bothered you or did you just send the executive the pictures of the naked man? 

 

Did they offer you a partial refund?

 

The problem with having certain beliefs is that they are great (and sometimes enforceable) in your country and your culture. You cannot expect the same beliefs to be valid in a foreign country, let alone a third world tropical island in regards to clothing cultures.  When in Rome, do as the Romans do. My family is from Europe. When they visit us, I always have to remind them that taking off their tops on most beaches is discouraged. Their country, perfectly acceptable and comfortable, our country, on some beaches, not so much.  They comply with our country not their beliefs from their country.  And you certainly cannot blame a tour company for not being comfortable in a country's culture.  

 

As others have stated, you have made a wise decision for your happiness.  Not everything is for everyone. I truly hope you find the perfect vacation venue for your expectations and can spend the rest of your retirement years in bliss.

Edited by cured

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16 minutes ago, vacationlover_mn said:

I think it is similar to “man in a speedo trauma” 🙂

Which is not as bad as lateral alter flash.

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On 1/16/2020 at 4:12 PM, exactorman51 said:

We did and were told we would be contacted on our return to port. We heard nothing so I wrote to the Executive Offices.

 

Did you directly and explicitly ask for a refund?  I am not badgering you.  I empathize with you.  A lot of times I have clients that will complain about something, rightly so or not, but they never get around to telling me what resolution they want or how we can agree to fix the problem.  If I spent 4 hours on a broken down bus that would be reason enough to request a refund.  I have also done these Jamaica excursions w lunch through the cruiseline and it was a styrofoam plate w a piece of grilled chicken, rice, and beans; about the cheapest meal they could have possibly put together.  They didn't have the audacity to charge for water but that was a couple years ago. 

 

If the cruiseline won't settle the issue get your credit card company involved 

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I do not trust excursions from rccl or any line in general, need to research , all rccl cares is getting there cut. I do find they will listen to complaints and do something about them. 

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1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Did you directly and explicitly ask for a refund?  I am not badgering you.  I empathize with you.  A lot of times I have clients that will complain about something, rightly so or not, but they never get around to telling me what resolution they want or how we can agree to fix the problem.  If I spent 4 hours on a broken down bus that would be reason enough to request a refund.  I have also done these Jamaica excursions w lunch through the cruiseline and it was a styrofoam plate w a piece of grilled chicken, rice, and beans; about the cheapest meal they could have possibly put together.  They didn't have the audacity to charge for water but that was a couple years ago. 

 

If the cruiseline won't settle the issue get your credit card company involved 

I doubt RCL is choosing the menu, they just a cut from the company running the excursion.

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My favourite bit of all this is that Michael Bayley was spammed with pictures of the naked man!

Edited by GarlicBread

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On 1/16/2020 at 6:42 PM, cured said:

I am still trying to get over wife being traumatized by a naked man and then hubby taking pictures of same naked man and then sending "inappropriate" pictures to RCCL executives.   I can't imagine the looks on the executives' faces when opening up their emails to pictures of a naked man. Depending on how explicit the pictures were and where he sent them, good thing OP didn't get in trouble himself.

 

THANK YOU !!! 

 

I would imagine the naked gentleman was not in the best of health mentally and/or physically. It's also a third world country with severely lacking healthcare. Does the OP go around this hometown taking pictures of ill homeless people also or is just when on vacation?

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On 1/17/2020 at 1:11 PM, exactorman51 said:

 I wanted to see if people would think I was over-reacting

 

You are.

 

 

On 1/17/2020 at 1:11 PM, exactorman51 said:

It is split

 

No it's not. Let it go. Enjoy HAL/Cunard.

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