Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, cltnccruisers said:

From an AP story:

 

Chloe Wiegand’s parents sued Royal Caribbean in December, accusing the operator of negligence in her death by allowing the 11th-floor window in the ship’s children's play area to be open.

Winkleman said Anello’s proposed guilty plea in Chloe’s death would have “little or no effect at all on the civil lawsuit,” noting that Anello is not a party to that case

“He’s not a party to that case and therefore it is not relevant,” Winkleman said.

Of course that's what he's going to say.  Doesn't mean it's true.  Anello admits he's guilty of negligence.  Winkleman is claiming RCI is negligent.  Kind of hard to put those together. 

[hallux]

1 hour ago, cltnccruisers said:

“He’s not a party to that case and therefore it is not relevant,” Winkleman said.

 

lol, he may not be named as a plaintiff on that case, but his admission that there was enough evidence against him that there was a good chance he'd have been convicted in the criminal case should be a flag that he carries significant responsibility in the events that transpired.  This guilty plea was carefully crafted - I believe if he had plead guilty without doing it as an Alford plea (he admits there seems to be enough evidence to convict him but still maintains his innocence in the events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alford_plea#:~:text= ) RCI could point to that plea as a means to get the civil case dismissed.  However, because the GF plead guilty while still maintaining that he was innocent it may not carry as much weight in trying to dismiss the civil suit.

 

Do I feel bad for the family?  I do.  Do I think they should be pursuing this?  Not a chance.    The only "compensation" I believe RCI should give them is an agreement not to counter-sue to recover the legal expenses the company has incurred as a result of this action. 

 

If that design was dangerous there would be MANY more incidences like this, this ship has carried how many THOUSANDS of children without an incident like this prior to this one?  Not to mention the other ships in the same class, or other ship classes with similar window designs.  It took me all of about 30 seconds near the Solarium windows to realize on my first cruise on Explorer that those windows open and some were. 

 

Also - if he had placed her on the railing (as one report says he claims to have done), what would have prevented her from falling backwards, onto the deck and breaking her neck?  Yeah, there's also the passenger conduct policy that he violated by putting her on or beyond the railing...

[coffeebean]

21 hours ago, KelSny1011 said:

 

GF might have not been willing to plead guilty and take a plea bargain prior though too.  

RCI better have a great defense on why this family doesn't deserve a dime from them.  We all cruise, so we get why this family's claim is bogus.  However, have you guys seen what others are saying?  Majority of people commenting recently on websites have so much compassion for this family and see RCI has the enemy.  That's why I wonder whether RCI might prefer to settle outside of court.

Do these people that have compassion for the family and see RCI as the enemy mention the video which proves Anello is at fault? How can these people not see what we see on that video? RCI has guardrails in place and the placement of the open window was well above access for a child. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by coffeebean

[trey420]

Something I wonder, is that window still open, or permanently sealed?

[trey420]

Double post 

Edited February 27, 2020 by trey420

[coffeebean]

20 hours ago, rusty nut said:

Not necessarily. There's the risk of reputation at stake. It may be worth fighting, and paying lawyers to defend their reputation. There's a risk/reward relationship going on, here.

Royal's reputation is not the only thing at stake here. The cruise industry as we know it is at stake here. Royal must NOT settle and I'm sure the cruise industry is watching very closely as to the end result.

[coffeebean]

19 hours ago, AlyssaJames said:

 

It goes further than that depending on the type of forum you're looking at. True crime followers, for example, are about 50/50 convinced he did it on purpose. 

Really? Half of true crime followers believe Anello killed his step grandchild on purpose? I never gave that angle a thought although that has been mentioned in this thread.

[AlyssaJames]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

Really? Half of true crime followers believe Anello killed his step grandchild on purpose? I never gave that angle a thought although that has been mentioned in this thread.

 

In this specific community I'm in on reddit, yes. But keep in mind the context: they are used to reading stories every day about people doing horrible things to kids, so they have a slight bias towards assuming the worst. 

 

By and large they are also not cruisers. 🙂 

[coffeebean]

20 hours ago, cltnccruisers said:

Winkeman files suits like this aiming for a settlement.  In this case Royal has chosen to stand their ground so his method may be backfiring.  I also have followed this on several sites and very few people think Royal is at fault.  I suspect those that do have never cruised.

Those people probably believe the open window was in a child's play area because that is what Winkleman has been saying all along. That just is not true. RCI's defense team must show the jurors that the area of the open window was NOT in a child's play area.

[coffeebean]

19 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

........There are still people who believe that Chloe walked out of an open window that was in a children's play area.🙄........

 

 

These people can believe this but this gross untruth can be very easily dispelled in court. Do these people live under a rock? I just don't get it.

[A&L_Ont]

54 minutes ago, trey420 said:

Something I wonder, is that window still open, or permanently sealed?

 

I'd say that any can still open, on all RC ships.  If they screwed them shut, Winkleman could claim that they did it for safety and RC knew it was a hazard.

Edited February 27, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[cltnccruisers]

1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Of course that's what he's going to say.  Doesn't mean it's true.  Anello admits he's guilty of negligence.  Winkleman is claiming RCI is negligent.  Kind of hard to put those together. 

I wouldn't have expected him to say anything else at this point.  Once Anello formally changes his plea he may think differently but probably not.  As I understand it the criminal case and the civil case are supposed to be adjudicated without regard to each other.  If the civil case is allowed to go forward Winkleman will have to find a judge and jury who are blind, deaf and dumb AND have zero knowledge of the tourism industry in PR.  That'll be a tough nut to crack.

[TNcruising02]

I think Anello was told by the parents to plead guilty so that the evidence would not have to come out in his criminal trial.  I also believe that the Wiegand's attorney wanted it that way so that he could get a settlement without risking losing the entire case by going to trial.  Right now, the attorney is still spinning the truth.  If either case goes to trial, no more spin.  I think the attorney knows good and well that Royal isn't to blame and just wants a settlement.  

Even though the criminal case and the civil case aren't linked, you can bet the civil attorney knows they are based on the factual evidence.  Had Anello's case gone to trial, the attorney knows it would have damaged his case even more.

Edited February 27, 2020 by TNcruising02

[cltnccruisers]

1 hour ago, trey420 said:

Something I wonder, is that window still open, or permanently sealed?

I'd hate to see Royal react that way for a single incident in which the alleged adult deliberately circumvented adequate security precautions.  As I recall, every other window is open on the pool deck while in port to allow for ventilation.  Perfectly reasonable and not normally a safety concern.

[boscobeans]

1 hour ago, trey420 said:

Something I wonder, is that window still open, or permanently sealed?

Why would THAT window be sealed?

 

Almost the entire pool deck on that ship, and almost all cruise ships, is lined on both sides by dozens of the exact same windows.

[cltnccruisers]

5 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think Anello was told by the parents to plead guilty so that the evidence would not have to come out in his criminal trial.  I also believe that the Wiegand's attorney wanted it that way so that he could get a settlement without risking losing the entire case by going to trial.  Right now, the attorney is still spinning the truth.  If either case goes to trial, no more spin.  I think the attorney knows good and well that Royal isn't to blame and just wants a settlement.  

Even though the criminal case and the civil case aren't linked, you can bet the civil attorney knows they are based on the factual evidence.  Had Anello's case gone to trial, the attorney knows it would have damaged his case even more.

If the civil case is allowed to go forward the Royal legal team will provide the videos as evidence.  But I don't think it will get that far. Winkleman won't withdraw it in the hope of still getting Royal to settle.  But I think they are on solid ground and should not cave.  Hopefully, the next time the parties are in court the judge will toss the suit.

[A&L_Ont]

18 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think the attorney knows good and well that Royal isn't to blame and just wants a settlement.  

 

The entire reason for the case in the lawyers eyes.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

20 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

The cruise industry as we know it is at stake here.

So if RCI is found liable, the cruise industry could shut down?  Sorry, no.  If RCI is found liable, I think the worst that would happen (aside from RCI giving the family money) is the windows get permanently closed. While not good, it's not terrible.

[dodgestang]

34 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So if RCI is found liable, the cruise industry could shut down?  Sorry, no.  If RCI is found liable, I think the worst that would happen (aside from RCI giving the family money) is the windows get permanently closed. While not good, it's not terrible.

 

Say good bye to open balcony room and any where on the ship where you are not behind a 10 foot tall glass wall to prevent liability of people falling off.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

In our local news paper today. Plead guilty to negligence homicide will not serve any jail or prison time.

So it looks like it is over.

[KelSny1011]

Regarding the civil case:  Does anyone know when they are due back in court?

[cltnccruisers]

17 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

In our local news paper today. Plead guilty to negligence homicide will not serve any jail or prison time.

So it looks like it is over.

Anello has not yet formally changed his plea.  He has to do that in court.  Also, the ambulance chaser is not withdrawing his meritless lawsuit. 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

20 minutes ago, cltnccruisers said:

Anello has not yet formally changed his plea.  He has to do that in court.  Also, the ambulance chaser is not withdrawing his meritless lawsuit. 

All I did was indicate what was in today's paper. I* would think it is correct.

[TNcruising02]

Docket last updated: 12 hours ago

Wednesday, February 26, 2020
31		respm Response in Opposition to Motion Wed 02/26 1:07 PM  RESPONSE in Opposition re30 Amended MOTION TO DISMISS1 Complaint,28 Order on Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim,,, Order on Motion to Compel,,, Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply/Answer,,, Order on Motion to Strike,,, Order on Motion f filed by Kimberly Schultz-Wiegand, Alan Wiegand. Replies due by 3/4/2020. (Winkleman, Michael) https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/31355031/Wiegand_et_al_v_Royal_Caribbean_Cruises_Ltd

[cltnccruisers]

7 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

All I did was indicate what was in today's paper. I* would think it is correct.

It's certainly correct as far as it goes.  😀