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Toddler Death Law Suit Update

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Saw a story today on the daily mail site that the family wants the charges dropped against the step grandfather. Trying to decide if they want to do this out of compassion for what he is already going through, or the fact that if he is found guilty at the higher burden of proof this case needs, that it would make the civil case almost impossible to win.

 

Sadly with the way society rolls I find myself believing the latter motive more even though I wish it were the 1st option.

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Just now, cgolf1 said:

Saw a story today on the daily mail site that the family wants the charges dropped against the step grandfather. Trying to decide if they want to do this out of compassion for what he is already going through, or the fact that if he is found guilty at the higher burden of proof this case needs, that it would make the civil case almost impossible to win.

 

Sadly with the way society rolls I find myself believing the latter motive more even though I wish it were the 1st option.

I fully believe they want the charges dismissed because they want to be able to place blame on RCI.  I think that blame would be harder to place if GF is found (or pleads) guilty.

 

Of course, that's not the excuse they use.  They say the criminal trial is keeping them from grieving for their daughter.  Well, OK, but wouldn't the civil case do the same?  Their logic doesn't work. 

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Some more food for thought.  Another thing that makes no sense is why the glass at the lower level wasn’t good enough for her to bang on?   If the glass was so clean (cuz royal Caribbean cleans there windows impeccably...). that Anello couldn’t tell if there was a window or not what purpose did it serve to lift her up to put her feet on the dinky little window sill rather than the stability of the floor?  The extra height adds NOTHING to the view if the windows are that clean.   
 

If she really wanted to bang on glass doing so from the floor is ton easier than safer than from that little window sill regardless of the window is open.  I can’t imagine any jury would look at that window sill and think “That looks super stable for an 18 month old to stand on!”

 

My kids are 5 and 9 and have been cruising since they were babies.   Not once have I even thought about lifting them up in that same situation because It was much easier and funner to just watch them explore a window below on their own.

Edited by rimmit

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Disclaimer - I am NOT a lawyer, but I do work for a law firm.

 

One

 

This case starts and stops when he raised her up over the railing.  Whether he placed her on the railing or past the railing, whether he knew the window is open, why he picked her up, etc. DOES NOT MATTER.  He placed her above a safety mechanism.  That's the end of it.  Will he be found guilty? I can't see any reason why not because none of the reasons he citing mean anything. Will he see jail time?  My thought is probably probation.  A judge would be setting a very bad precedent that could cause major problems in the future if he/she found him innocent of negligence.  Could you imagine all the lawsuits in the future?  "Yes Judge, I saw the <insert safety measure here>, but <insert reason for going past/over the safety measure here>."  It would be huge.  We are talking about a safety measure (railing) that is universally known.  Everyone knows why we have railings.  Putting a child above, on or past a railing (or any safety mechanism) is negligence.  End of story.

 

Two

 

My husband is colour blind.  So much so he's not allowed to be a pilot.  He specifically cannot tell the difference between blues and purples.  He has made comments even before this happened that it is VERY EASY for him to tell when the windows are open on a ship.  GF may not have been able to see the colour of the windows, but he sure could tell the difference in the shades/darkness differences in the windows.  This is not a excuse or any type of defense whatsoever (see number one).

 

I feel horrible for the family. I cannot imagine losing a child.  My only hope is they find some peace and closure.  My thoughts are with them.

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, MaddyandMax said:

Will he see jail time?  My thought is probably probation. 

 

For what it's worth, I believe there's an article upthread quoting (someone in authority/prosecutor's office) stating that he is only facing probation and would probably be allowed to do it in Indiana, not PR.

 

So the family wanting the charges dropped is probably more about proving a point, and/or the lawsuit. 

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I like to think that I try to see the good in people, always have. But man, after watching that video, I'm battling with myself over good vs evil. I'm in no way suggesting that Anello dropped his GD on purpose, God, who would do that? But I see the video and still have to ask questions.

 

1. Anello walks over to the open window, shoves the railing into his gut and leans out the window, appearing to look down. We can hardly see his shoulders.

 

2. After receding from the window, he bends down for a few seconds, presumably chatting with Chloe.

 

3. He comes up, has Chloe in hand and lifts her up over the railing and then back down, TO WHERE? Why would he pick her up over the railing and then back down between the railing and the glass? He didn't. He is holding her out the window. Not on the window ledge, outside of the window, dangling her. If he had placed Chloe on the window sill, he would not have been bent over like that while he was holding her.

That's what I see in the video.

 

On a second note, why can't RCI get better cameras? 4k, 30fps. Come on, storage space is cheap these days, especially for a multi billion dollar company.  

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3 hours ago, boscobeans said:

Grandpa leans out of an open window then he picks up child and holds her outside of that same open window.

Grandpa then drops her to her death and the family sues Royal Caribbean.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Because Grandpa doesn't have any money.

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9 hours ago, vnman63 said:

What I wonder is why did GF think the glass down at Chloe's level wasn't adequate for her to see through or bang on?  My gut tells me he knew she could see much clearer up top without that pesky tint obscuring her view.  Why else would he lift her up other than so she could see better?

But, he is color blind and didn't know the window was open.

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1 minute ago, soremekun said:

But, he is color blind and didn't know the window was open.

 

Plus, he's an elderly and silver haired.

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The more I think about it, I believe there was something on the pier he wanted to her to be able to "see better". Maybe when he was leaning over and she was at his feet they saw a dog. She says doggie, doggie. GF bends down and says you wanna see the doggie? He picks her up, over the railing so she can see the doggie. Just a thought but it makes sense timing wise and explains why he may have wanted her "higher". Same could go for an airplane, etc.

 

I also watched the 16 minute version of the video from the TV Show. At the beginning she darts toward the windows and GF follows slowly. Having to stop and lean on a column and bend over for almost 10 seconds. He must have been hot and/or tired. He is not a small man 5'11" at 275#. I can only think this also played a role in how he dropped her. Also, after he drops her there are several seconds before he pulls his hands back inside and must yell (people around react). I can only imagine during that time he can't believe it happened.

Edited by JennyB1977

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16 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Defense asked for another month.  Judge set the next hearing for Feb. 24 and they'll set a trial date then.  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7935033/Parents-toddler-dropped-death-Royal-Caribbean-ship-beg-Puerto-Rico-end-case.html

So, from the re-enactment photo the family's legal team has provided with a man of equal height and stature to the GF and the child, leaning over the rail... they claim it is physically impossible for him to have dangled the child out the window.  His arms are not "long enough" they claim.

 

I don't see it.  I see a man, holding a doll just short of the window, but he can obviously extend his arms and lean forward to dangle and drop her out the window.

 

FACT:  The child was dropped out of the window and fell to her death.  Someone had to have put her in that position.

 

This guy just does not want to come to grips and admit is failure to his own family.
 

My guess, he dangled her out the window for fun.  He was extended too far out to control his arms.  She kicked and screamed, and squirmed and he lost his grip.

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24 minutes ago, BillHoo said:

FACT:  The child was dropped out of the window and fell to her death.  Someone had to have put her in that position.


Despite all the discussion myself and many have contributed into this case,  this ultimately is likely the angle the defense will take.  An 18 month old child does not have the ability to toss herself out the window nor climb up to it.  Adult assistance is required to get up to the window sill and even more adult assistance is required to fall out the window.   Much more than standard safety requirements take account for.

 

The prosecution will have to prove negligence and deviation from standard safety norms and I just don’t know what legal cases they can draw from that has a legal precedent that states a company should protect its consumers from a total lack of common sense.  As I have previously stated,  if the plaintiff wins this will have repercussions much larger than the MCD coffee case and will be a landmark case in litigation law.

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48 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

I also watched the 16 minute version of the video from the TV Show. At the beginning she darts toward the windows and GF follows slowly. Having to stop and lean on a column and bend over for almost 10 seconds. He must have been hot and/or tired.

 

I and others initially thought the same as you, but upon further review, it appears that GD stopped at the post and GF stopped and squatted down to her level.  Then GD took off toward the windows and GF followed.

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35 minutes ago, BillHoo said:

So, from the re-enactment photo the family's legal team has provided with a man of equal height and stature to the GF and the child, leaning over the rail... they claim it is physically impossible for him to have dangled the child out the window.  His arms are not "long enough" they claim.

 

Re-enactor does not appear to be equal height and stature to the GF.  And the doll is definitely not.

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@Another_Critic Watched again and I stand corrected. Good eyes!

 

For those curious I googled "la comay" "chloe" "video" then scrolled down the results to the post from Dec. 17, 2019 that is is 16:28 in duration.

Edited by JennyB1977

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The GF said that he watched her fall. That is only possibly if he was leaning over the railing enough where he could see on to the pier. It is obvious from the side video and back video clips that he leaned over the railing before he even picked up the little girl.

 

I do think it makes sense that he saw something on the pier and wanted to show her. But holding her with only one arm just increased his negligent behavior. It seems unforgivable to me.
 

It was originally reported in a Spanish article that he put her out the window for games. Not sure if the translation is correct, but it seems like it was believed he was dangling her in play. 
 

I read that the prosecution has witnesses on and off of the ship, so it will be interesting when those accounts are released. 
 

As for people going through glass doors when they don’t realize they are closed, those doors are not blocked with protective railings. 

Edited by TNcruising02

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The re-enactment is not un-biased.  It also was not ordered by the court and probably won't be allowed as a defense.  It's purely for public consumption to once again try to sway public opinion, but I don't know how since what it doesn't show is how it happened, just how they want people to think that it couldn't have.

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15 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

@Another_Critic Watched again and I stand corrected. Good eyes!

 

For those curious I googled "la comay" "chloe" "video" then scrolled down the results to the post from Dec. 17, 2019 that is is 16:28 in duration.

 

That was not my eyes; someone else pointed it out in a post.

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1 hour ago, soremekun said:

But, he is color blind and didn't know the window was open.

But he leaned OUT of that very same window just seconds before holding the child out of it.

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1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Plus, he's an elderly and silver haired.

He is in his early 50's and he leaned OUT of the window just seconds before holding the child out of it.

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8 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

He is in his early 50's and he leaned OUT of the window just seconds before holding the child out of it.

However I'm sure early 50's is elderly to some of the posters on this board.🙄

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1 minute ago, FLACRUISER99 said:

However I'm sure early 50's is elderly to some of the posters on this board.🙄

 

I have one foot in the grave since I'm late 50's ... but not silver haired.  😄

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14 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

I have one foot in the grave since I'm late 50's ... but not silver haired.  😄

OMG I'm 63.

I could nearly be the GFs dad.

IMG_20191005_143345.jpg

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I'm going on 74 and would know after leaning out a window with my head and shoulders that the window was open.

 

Not only would a color blind person be aware that the window was open but a 100% totally blind person could tell it was open after leaning out and over the window ledge.

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