Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[xxHadleyxx]

11 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I'm caught up on this thread so started reading comments on the many YouTube videos about Chloe's death. Some statements that are being I have to question. One such statement is that other cruise lines have safety screens on their windows. I've been on a few different cruise lines and I honestly don't recall any screens on any windows. My recollection may not be the best so just wondering if any of you have seen screens on cruise ship windows.

 

I also keep reading people posting that Royal Caribbean did not adhere to safety standards for the windows. How can a cruise ship operate if the line does not adhere to current safety standards? People really believe RCI was in violation of the safety standards? The family attorney actually said that Royal Caribbean did was not in compliance to the safety standards with the windows. How can this be true?

 

 

I personally have never seen safety screens on widows on cruise ships.  I have sailed RCI, Disney, Princess, MSC and Carnival.  (not that a screen is a safety item--as has already been pointed out---they are not designed to support that kind of weight and if anything might make things more dangerous as they'd lend a false sense of security---screens keep insects out, kind of pointless in an open air cruise deck).

[Newleno]

The only prudent thing to do is make ships with no balcony rooms, and no open areas to see the ocean nor feel the ocean breezes,   like a cargo ship with a 10 foot high perimeter.  Sounds like fun

 

[The Scurvy Pirate]

When our son was 18 months old, he wore one of these on the cruise whenever we went out.  Some of the looks we got were the "can you believe that... poor kid" looks, but he was safe... 

 

Many parents believe that a child leash…

Looks similar to this:

And they are right….

Because babies are just like dogs…

• Unpredictable… You don’t know what they are going to do next.
• To you they are the most precious thing in the world
• Poo and wee everywhere unless you train them
• You can’t understand a word they say
• They get excited by their own reflection.

[HBE4]

7 hours ago, Newleno said:

The only prudent thing to do is make ships with no balcony rooms, and no open areas to see the ocean nor feel the ocean breezes,   like a cargo ship with a 10 foot high perimeter.  Sounds like fun

 

 

Yeah. But think about the size of the indoor pool on the super tanker cruise ship. I'm thinking wave pool and lazy river! 

[voyager70]

Anyone know when this case actually goes to trial

[TNcruising02]

6 hours ago, The Scurvy Pirate said:

When our son was 18 months old, he wore one of these on the cruise whenever we went out.  Some of the looks we got were the "can you believe that... poor kid" looks, but he was safe... 

 

Many parents believe that a child leash…

Looks similar to this:

And they are right….

Because babies are just like dogs…

• Unpredictable… You don’t know what they are going to do next.
• To you they are the most precious thing in the world
• Poo and wee everywhere unless you train them
• You can’t understand a word they say
• They get excited by their own reflection.

I would much rather see a kid on a leash than a kid running wild with their parent or guardian paying no attention to them.  

[TNcruising02]

14 minutes ago, voyager70 said:

Anyone know when this case actually goes to trial

Here is the latest that I could find:

02/05/2020:
Filing 28 ORDER Denying #7 Motion to Dismiss the Complaint for Failure to State a Cause of Action; Denying as moot #14 Unopposed Motion for Extension of Time to File Response to Defendant's Motion to Dismiss; Denying as moot #15 Motion to Strike ; Denying as moot #17 Unopposed Motion for Leave to File Preliminary Response in Opposition to Defendant's Motion to Dismiss Complaint for Failure to State a Cause of Action in Excess of Page Limitations. Signed by Senior Judge Donald L. Graham on 2/5/2020. See attached document for full details. (ar2)

Filing 27 Notice of Supplemental Authority re #7 Defendant's MOTION TO DISMISS #1 Complaint, FOR FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM , #18 Response in Opposition to Motion, by Kimberly Schultz-Wiegand, Alan Wiegand (Attachments: #1 Exhibit) (Winkleman, Michael)

https://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/1:2019cv25100/562925

Edited February 15, 2020 by TNcruising02

[Two Wheels Only]

8 hours ago, The Scurvy Pirate said:

When our son was 18 months old, he wore one of these on the cruise whenever we went out.  Some of the looks we got were the "can you believe that... poor kid" looks, but he was safe... 

 

A leash wouldn't have made a difference in this case. Chloe didn't wander off and fall to her death. Chloe was lifted over a safety railing and extended beyond the railing to/through a window.

 

Even if Chloe was on a leash when she fell, Anello wouldn't have been strong enough to hold onto his end. If he isn't capable of holding the actual child, I doubt that Anello could hold onto his end of the leash.

 

Maybe if Anello was also attached to the leash.....

Edited February 15, 2020 by Two Wheels Only

[TNcruising02]

Wednesday, February 12, 2020
Amended MOTION TO DISMISS1 Complaint,28 Order on Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim,,, Order on Motion to Compel,,, Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply/Answer,,, Order on Motion to Strike,,, Order on Motion for Leave to File Excess Pages,, FOR FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.. Responses due by 2/26/2020 (Hamilton, Jerry)

Monday, February 10, 2020
NOTICE of Compliance with Court Order of February 5, 2020 to Address Preservation of CCTV Footage by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. re28 Order on Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim,,, Order on Motion to Compel,,, Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply/Answer,,, Order on Motion to Strike,,, Order on Motion for Leave to File Excess Pages,, (Chardon, Carlos)

Affidavit Declaraton of Mildred Quintero

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/31355031/Wiegand_et_al_v_Royal_Caribbean_Cruises_Ltd

Edited to add: (maybe this is the Mildred Quintero who gave the affidavit declaration)
 

Mildred Quintero Business Profile

Senior Investigator at Royal Caribbean International

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by TNcruising02

[Germancruiser]

They installed the railing a good distance away from the windows- that´s for safety reasons, of course. The old geezer lifted the girl and so put her in harms way. When it was first repored I felt terribly sorry for the old guy- just imagine - beeing responsible for the death of ones own grandchild. To live with that guilt is punishment beyond words.

When i read they sue the cruise line for his own stupid actions all my compassion vanished into thin air!

[banzaii]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Wednesday, February 12, 2020
Amended MOTION TO DISMISS1 Complaint,28 Order on Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim,,, Order on Motion to Compel,,, Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply/Answer,,, Order on Motion to Strike,,, Order on Motion for Leave to File Excess Pages,, FOR FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.. Responses due by 2/26/2020 (Hamilton, Jerry)

Monday, February 10, 2020
NOTICE of Compliance with Court Order of February 5, 2020 to Address Preservation of CCTV Footage by Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. re28 Order on Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim,,, Order on Motion to Compel,,, Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply/Answer,,, Order on Motion to Strike,,, Order on Motion for Leave to File Excess Pages,, (Chardon, Carlos)

Affidavit Declaraton of Mildred Quintero

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/31355031/Wiegand_et_al_v_Royal_Caribbean_Cruises_Ltd

Edited to add: (maybe this is the Mildred Quintero who gave the affidavit declaration)
 

Mildred Quintero Business Profile

Senior Investigator at Royal Caribbean International

 

Finally a real update.  Thanks TN!

[jagsfan]

13 hours ago, The Scurvy Pirate said:

When our son was 18 months old, he wore one of these on the cruise whenever we went out.  Some of the looks we got were the "can you believe that... poor kid" looks, but he was safe... 

 

Many parents believe that a child leash…

Looks similar to this:

And they are right….

Because babies are just like dogs…

• Unpredictable… You don’t know what they are going to do next.
• To you they are the most precious thing in the world
• Poo and wee everywhere unless you train them
• You can’t understand a word they say
• They get excited by their own reflection.

My now 57 year old wore one as a toddler because I was pregnant with her brother and couldn’t run. Several times strangers told me off in public for treating her like a dog. 

She was fast and curious about everything. 

Chloe was probably the same, and its heartbreaking that such a lapse of common sense by a 50 year old man took her future away from her. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by jagsfan
Typo

[Qextor]

If you have two young but walking kids, by yourself, and one goes <-- that way and the other goes this way -->

Well, which one are you going to go after first?    At the same time, I have done the whole 'sit my toddler nieces/nephew on the railing so they can see better' bit.  But you better be sure I had them in a proper bear hug, so I would never lose grip on them.

When I take my nieces/nephew out by myself, I am always constantly making sure I have them in my view. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Qextor

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, Qextor said:

If you have two young but walking kids, by yourself, and one goes <-- that way and the other goes this way -->

Well, which one are you going to go after first?    At the same time, I have done the whole 'sit my toddler nieces/nephew on the railing so they can see better' bit.  But you better be sure I had them in a proper bear hug, so I would never lose grip on them.

When I take my nieces/nephew out by myself, I am always constantly making sure I have them in my view. 

Do the parents know you sit them on railings?

I hope you aren't refering to ships railings.

[PoofCat99]

17 hours ago, The Scurvy Pirate said:

When our son was 18 months old, he wore one of these on the cruise whenever we went out.  Some of the looks we got were the "can you believe that... poor kid" looks, but he was safe... 

 

Many parents believe that a child leash…

Looks similar to this:

And they are right….

Because babies are just like dogs…

• Unpredictable… You don’t know what they are going to do next.
• To you they are the most precious thing in the world
• Poo and wee everywhere unless you train them
• You can’t understand a word they say
• They get excited by their own reflection.

They put anything in their mouth...

[Qextor]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

Do the parents know you sit them on railings?

I hope you aren't refering to ships railings.

 

Never ships' railings, no.  And yes, their parents were close by, as well.  As I said before, I kept a very firm grip on my niece, with both hands.  It was never a common thing to do; maybe a few times, not often.  They are all too big now for something like that.

[cruisinfanatic]

36 minutes ago, Qextor said:

 

Never ships' railings, no.  And yes, their parents were close by, as well.  As I said before, I kept a very firm grip on my niece, with both hands.  It was never a common thing to do; maybe a few times, not often.  They are all too big now for something like that.

what railings then

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, cruisinfanatic said:

what railings then

I will admit as well to holding my children up onto a railing, at a location where the railing was designed to control people (like at a theme park), but not where there was any fall hazard more than the distance from the rail to the floor, on both sides of the rail.  It would never occur to me to do so even in a theater balcony or similar, let alone 11 stories up.

 

Something like this, to allow the kids to see better:

 

[ONECRUISER]

12 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

I would much rather see a kid on a leash than a kid running wild with their parent or guardian paying no attention to them.  

As 99.9% of the Passengers that have fallen or jumped off Cruise ships are Adults, then all Adult passengers should be on a Safety Leash... 

Edited February 15, 2020 by ONECRUISER

[Qextor]

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I will admit as well to holding my children up onto a railing, at a location where the railing was designed to control people (like at a theme park), but not where there was any fall hazard more than the distance from the rail to the floor, on both sides of the rail.  It would never occur to me to do so even in a theater balcony or similar, let alone 11 stories up.

 

 

Yes - theme park rails.  Certainly not rails with a long drop on the other side.

[Lionesss]

Thank You BANZAII for the update.

 

Now for us not well in understanding  legal terms and such.......................what does this mean.

 

Thanks

[S.A.M.J.R.]

23 minutes ago, Lionesss said:

Thank You BANZAII for the update.

 

Now for us not well in understanding  legal terms and such.......................what does this mean.

 

Thanks

The family had filed suit against RCI.  RCI filed a motion to dismiss which was denied more for procedural reasons than anything to do with evidence.  They had five days to refile a modified motion to dismiss.  If I'm reading what @TNcruising02 posted correctly, RCI has refiled the motion and responses (I guess from the family's lawyer?) are due 2/26. 

 

RCI also responded saying they have taken steps to make sure no CCTV (security) footage is lost/destroyed. 

 

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn, but that's what I think it means. 

[trey420]

Yep that sucks.  I'm not as into finding a solution, as I don't think that window was an issue.  Grandpa wasn't paying attention.  The lead probably wouldn't have helped as it seems he thought kid was safe so he left it there, so he probably wouldn't be holding or just loosely holding his end of that lead.  Its unfortunate for the kid for sure I don't fault the cruise line.  You took your kid on the cruise and you didn't pay attention this is what happened.   I don't blame baseball for the kid that got hit in the head with a ball.  I blame the parents.   You decide to sit in a stadium where guys try to hit a hard ball as hard as they can, being pitched hard as they can.  Maybe that's not the place for your baby.  It's not like the kid even knows what a baseball is.  Now they put nets up everywhere.  Maybe we can net the whole ship.  Will help stop the jumpers too.  

 

People have to start taking responsibility, if you have a kid that's your responsibility. 

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, ONECRUISER said:

As 99.9% of the Passengers that have fallen or jumped off Cruise ships are Adults, then all Adult passengers should be on a Safety Leash... 

 

I have a few photos of that from one of my live reviews a few years ago.  Lets just say the man on the least was consenting.

[A&L_Ont]

40 minutes ago, trey420 said:

People have to start taking responsibility, if you have a kid that's your responsibility. 

 

And that should go across the board for everything. Sadly, common sense isn't common anymore.