New Manchu Picchu rules

[pinotlover]

Only a small percentage of Oceania cruisers visit these threads, and even a smaller number visit the ports of call threads. So for the Oceania cruisers, I put this here. Oceania runs pre  and post cruise excursions there, so future visitors should know what to expect.

 

MP has initiated completely new rules for visitors to its sights. Included are:

 

1. All visitors must now use a registered facility guide to enter the grounds. Visitors must stay with their guides at all times. Group size is now limited to 15-16. 

 

2.  All tours are now pre-scheduled. Time slots are now a couple three (3) hour slots and a two (2) hour slot. Total number of visitors in each time slot is now limited and tightly controlled.
 

3. Everyone is restricted to certain areas and walking paths.

 

The days of going up to MP and wandering around on one’s own are over! I read a blog of a recent visitor that reported one in their group wandered off into a restricted area to take pictures. Their guide blew a whistle and spoke into a walkie talkie and armed guards were immediately there and took the guy away! The guide gave the group a tongue lashing about all the unnecessary damage visitors had done and it wouldn’t be tolerated any more! She plainly said she was not going to lose her license and livelihood because someone didn’t want to follow the rules.

 

If you want, or plan on visiting, MP either on an Oceania tour or private tour in the future, understand that your time there will be even more limited than in the past. Hopefully, a very recent visitor will report whether Oceania gets a two hour window or three. This becomes an extremely expensive excursion for a two (2) , over even three hour visit to the main attraction!

 

There have been several articles recently on MP and its severe overcrowding with visitors and destruction of local fauna and sites. Appears the Authorities have decided to decisively act.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by pinotlover
Spelling

[cruisemom42]

It's sad that it has come to this, but I cannot blame authorities for acting.

 

While I haven't been to Macchu Picchu, the crowds I have witnessed at some popular tourist destinations recently (Venice comes to mind) and the destructive behaviors I read about almost weekly on the part of clueless tourists in Rome -- jumping in fountains and breaking sculptures; carving their initials into the stones of the Colosseum -- require tougher rules and increased surveillance.

 

[Hawaiidan]

35 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Only a small percentage of Oceania cruisers visit these threads, and even a smaller number visit the ports of call threads. So for the Oceania cruisers, I put this here. Oceania runs pre  and post cruise excursions there, so future visitors should know what to expect.

 

MP has initiated completely new rules for visitors to its sights. Included are:

 

1. All visitors must now use a registered facility guide to enter the grounds. Visitors must stay with their guides at all times. Group size is now limited to 15-16. 

 

2.  All tours are now pre-scheduled. Time slots are now a couple three (3) hour slots and a two (2) hour slot. Total number of visitors in each time slot is now limited and tightly controlled.
 

3. Everyone is restricted to certain areas and walking paths.

 

The days of going up to MP and wandering around on one’s own are over! I read a blog of a recent visitor that reported one in their group wandered off into a restricted area to take pictures. Their guide blew a whistle and spoke into a walkie talkie and armed guards were immediately there and took the guy away! The guide gave the group a tongue lashing about all the unnecessary damage visitors had done and it wouldn’t be tolerated any more! She plainly said she was not going to lose her license and livelihood because someone didn’t want to follow the rules.

 

If you want, or plan on visiting, MP either on an Oceania tour or private tour in the future, understand that your time there will be even more limited than in the past. Hopefully, a very recent visitor will report whether Oceania gets a two hour window or three. This becomes an extremely expensive excursion for a two (2) , over even three hour visit to the main attraction!

several articles recently on MP and its severe overcrowding with visitors and destruction of local fauna and sites. Appears the Authorities have decided to decisively act.

 

 

Sadly people are their own words enemy...  so many feel entitled to do anything they darn want.   The era of the selfi- has brought on a whole crop of persons all trying to outdo each other and post on the internet  how cool they are.    US National parks too have seen this and now trails and sights are either restricted or require reservations.  All this could have been avoided if people just thought of the impact they were having instead of their own wishes

[clo]

Thanks for posting this. I'd read that it's gotten just awful. I also read about an alternative but it requires trekking from Cusco.

 

We were there over 25 years ago and it was amazing. You wandered to your heart's content. We brought a lunch and sat at one of the agricultural plateaus (what IS that called?) and had a little picnic. I'm so glad we did it when we did.

[Hawaiidan]

7 minutes ago, clo said:

Thanks for posting this. I'd read that it's gotten just awful. I also read about an alternative but it requires trekking from Cusco.

 

We were there over 25 years ago and it was amazing. You wandered to your heart's content. We brought a lunch and sat at one of the agricultural plateaus (what IS that called?) and had a little picnic. I'm so glad we did it when we did.

 Alas, those days of yore are gone as the Dodo.   

3/4 of the places I saw 25 years ago  I would not return because the were not the same place and I want to remember them as they were.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

 Alas, those days of yore are gone as the Dodo.   

3/4 of the places I saw 25 years ago  I would not return because the were not the same place and I want to remember them as they were.

We visited Dubrovnik about a year and a half ago and it was a mess. UNESCO is even threatening to revoke their status if they don't do something to curb the tourists. And cruise ships are a HUGE part of their problem. I've said and mean it that I wouldn't go back there if you paid me.

[Hawaiidan]

2 hours ago, clo said:

We visited Dubrovnik about a year and a half ago and it was a mess. UNESCO is even threatening to revoke their status if they don't do something to curb the tourists. And cruise ships are a HUGE part of their problem. I've said and mean it that I wouldn't go back there if you paid me.

I think you  should take notice  of the new cruise ships and the fact that no longer do they hold 500-1500     but today are 3500 to 6000.    If that were not enough add the crews of  1000-2500.   which maybe 1/3 will get to go ashore too.... at the same time.

And like St Thomas, Venice, Barcelona Miami, Ft Lauderdale, you likely too run into 10.to 20 thousand cruise ship passengers  a day !!! 

 The same with places like Yellowstone, Yosemite, Grand Canyon.

But thats another subject..  and every year  there become more and more , larger and larger ships.   ( Anyone care to guess when the first 10,000 passenger ship will be launched)

Edited January 21, 2020 by Hawaiidan

[Mura]

The NY Times reported in the travel section this past weekend (1/18) that five tourists had been deported (and a sixth was under arrest) for having sneaked into MP very early in the morning.  They did some damage to a building (whether deliberately or not wasn't clear) and feces were found as well ...

 

With behavior like that it's understandable that these new rules are in place.  How sad.

 

We were a group of six in 2015 and did NOT have to stay with our guide.  In fact, I'm trying to remember if he even came in with us!  But I do remember that my leg was bothering me at the time and for a while I sat underneath an overhang (for protection from light rain) while others in our group visited further afield.  One of our group even returned after lunch to do some private photography.  Sounds like my behavior and the photographer's will no longer be permitted.  We did no harm but when others do, we all suffer.

 

Peru Deports 5 Tourists Accused of Damaging Machu Picchu Temple
A sixth man will appear in court after the group caused a piece of a stone wall to fall and crack the floor, the authorities said. https://*****.com/r3acgaw or https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/15/world/americas/machu-picchu-tourist-arrests.html

 

If the links don't work once this is posted, just google the title of the article.

 

 

 

[thinfool]

I am not an O cruiser but I can comment from experience on a visit to MP.

Each visitor can stay on the ruins for up to 4 hours.  Believe me, tramping around at 8900 ft above sea level will make most glad to leave well before the 4 hours are up.

Staying with your guide is required, for the first two hours of your visit.  Our guide bailed at the 2 hour mark...she was not being paid for more than that.  After those first two hours you are free to wander on your own.  Stay on the trails...security people will remind you if you stray.  The site is a plethora of photo opps.

There is a place at the exit where they will stamp your passport with a MP logo.

It's a great place to visit.  I have been twice and we plan to go again...and expand our trip into more Peruvian sites.

[DeeniEncinitas]

We heard about the possible new rules in the works when we did our MP trip on The Maasdam in 2018!!! We had the best times of our lives and we left the ship and were gone for 5 day’s! 
Denise😊

[clo]

1 hour ago, thinfool said:

I am not an O cruiser but I can comment from experience on a visit to MP.

Each visitor can stay on the ruins for up to 4 hours.  Believe me, tramping around at 8900 ft above sea level will make most glad to leave well before the 4 hours are up.

Staying with your guide is required, for the first two hours of your visit.  Our guide bailed at the 2 hour mark...she was not being paid for more than that.  After those first two hours you are free to wander on your own.  Stay on the trails...security people will remind you if you stray.  The site is a plethora of photo opps.

There is a place at the exit where they will stamp your passport with a MP logo.

It's a great place to visit.  I have been twice and we plan to go again...and expand our trip into more Peruvian sites.

That's great info.  Thanks.

[pinotlover]

Thinfool;

 

When were you there? The new rules I posted just took effect the first of the year.

[fred111]

It is a shame that some tourists going to Machu Picchu have no sense of history.  We visited in 1973 on our own and were the only ones there.  No guides, no security.  We were able to roam around freely and left the site as pristine as we found it.  We haven't been back since and with the new restrictions we won't go back.  

 

P.S.  I have great photos with no tourists in the background.

[tvmovielover]

We too visited in the 70s.  We were not the only ones on the mountain but it was not crowds either.  If the number of people there is limited, you can see plenty in 2 hours and enjoy the views too.  It is amazing that there was a settlement way up there.  There were wild flowers orchids and birds and the ruins.  We went on a train from Cuzco and then vans went up the mountain.  MP has always been something I recommend seeing first to people visiting South America (not as many were when we lived there in the 70s and 90s).  It will be a shame if tourists ruin this site.

 

We visited the Galapagos Islands only a few years ago and they had rules about staying on the paths, etc that at the time were strictly enforced (the trained local guides were very good).  All these places could be enjoyed more and longer if people willingly followed the rules.

[pinotlover]

Someone may be able to find the pictures to posts, but one of the most startling and saddest sights I’ve seen were pictures from the 1950s vs today of the Petrified National Park in Arizona. It was amazing! Tourists had literally stolen the park, piece by piece!

[Mura]

We went to the Galapagos Islands in 1989.  Our guide was an American girl married to one of the Ecuadorian crew members on our motor vessel (capacity of 12 passengers but we were only 9).  She'd grown up in Ecuador and was very strict about staying on the paths.  But even then we saw evidence on the ground of people going off the trails.  On one visit she chewed out some other tourists whose guide was not enforcing the rules ... so she did.

 

So sad about the Petrified National Park.  There are always rules about not taking anything away from a national park, and always we see people taking "just a little rock".

 

Mura

[clo]

5 hours ago, fred111 said:

P.S.  I have great photos with no tourists in the background.

As do I. We were there in the early 80s and loved every moment. I'm afraid of heights but went places there that shocked Bob.

[kreastman]

Regarding the "disappearing Petrified Forest", it's a myth—please check out this article:  https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/arizona/2016/04/10/national-parks-centennial-petrified-forest/81296198/

[RJB]

So sad. We were thinking about planning a trip that would include MP next year, but after reading these posts it will be a no go.  Not going to spend all that money for 2 hours in a police state. 

[pinotlover]

25 minutes ago, RJB said:

So sad. We were thinking about planning a trip that would include MP next year, but after reading these posts it will be a no go.  Not going to spend all that money for 2 hours in a police state. 

We are currently booked on the Marina for next year with a post cruise to MP. Even if Oceania got one of the three hour slots, that’s still a lot of money for 3 hours. 
 

The couple we’re traveling with is already talking about just doing Iguazu Falls pre cruise and skipping MP post because of the new arrangements. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by pinotlover

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

We are currently booked on the Marina for next year with a post cruise to MP. Even if Oceania got one of the three hour slots, that’s still a lot of money for 3 hours. 
 

The couple we’re traveling with is already talking about just doing Iguazu Falls pre cruise and skipping MP post because of the new arrangements. 

Well - if you haven't been there before even with a limited time it is a MUST, IMO - no other place quite like it anywhere.

Besides, there is a lot more there than just MP - Cuzco, Sacred Valley, etc.

Granted, it's no longer "unspoiled" - just like it's the case for the Great Wall or Angkor Wat or any number of other places around the world - but it's still well worth visiting.

Maybe do a private tour that may be still less than Oceania and more flexible?

[thinfool]

5 hours ago, RJB said:

 for 2 hours in a police state. 

Not sure where the 2 hour thing comes from...the official MP website has all the rules right here...4 hours on site is the current rule.

https://www.machupicchu.gob.pe/inicio?request_locale=ES .  You may need to use the Chrome browser as it will translate the site into English automatically.

Also, in my experience the 'police state' comment is mysterious and unfounded.

Edited January 22, 2020 by thinfool

[clo]

12 minutes ago, thinfool said:

Also, in my experience the 'police state' comment is mysterious and unfounded.

If 'visitors' can't be trusted to be and do as they should then they deserve to have 'security' enforce the rules. Right?

[Mura]

Regarding a post-cruise to MP, well -- we did a pre-cruise.  Ours was 6 days with two other couples and is one of the highlights of all of our travels.  There is this kind of option as well.  We used Kuoda Tours, a Peruvian agency (the only one as far as I know, but perhaps there are a few others -- our trip was in 2015).  They were fabulous.  We stayed in the same hotels that Oceania uses but for more days and less money.  Plus we were a small group.  Kuoda has been highly recommended by other CCers, so they are worth checking out if you might want to consider this.  I, also, wouldn't call the new rules a "police state".  When a priceless and irreplaceable antiquity is destroyed by vandals, who can blame them for imposing new rules?  I don't.  But -- I'm glad we went when we did.

 

I agree with Paul:  if you have the opportunity to go, no matter what the restrictions are, you should.  And I will repeat -- spending several days in the area as we did is far superior to a 1-2 day trip ... It's not cheap, but it's worth it.

 

One day our guide asked if box lunches would be okay since we wouldn't be around restaurant options and we all said "of course".  Then he cooked a meal for us, brought out tables and chairs, drinks, etc., in the van and we "picnicked" by a river surrounded by mountains.  Hard to beat and much better than a restaurant!

 

Or a box lunch ...

 

Mura

 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, Mura said:

in the van

You didn't take the train? Wow! That was a highlight for us. But, again, this was pushing 30 years ago so the times have certainly changed. AND we had cuy/guinea pig for dinner one night in Cusco 🙂