Emotional support animals

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, ed01106 said:

I am all for people getting assistance for their mental illness.

 

But there needs to be balance with the sanity requirement of keeping pets out of restaurants and the fact that millions of people are allergic to pet dander.

 

If you can’t go on a cruise without you fury friend, don’t go on a cruise.  If you can’t control your tourettes syndrome and randomly curse for no reason then  stay away from playgrounds and daycare centers.

 

People who suffer from Tourettes have a reason.  Just saying.

[lenquixote66]

18 hours ago, ed01106 said:

I am all for people getting assistance for their mental illness.

 

But there needs to be balance with the sanity requirement of keeping pets out of restaurants and the fact that millions of people are allergic to pet dander.

 

If you can’t go on a cruise without you fury friend, don’t go on a cruise.  If you can’t control your tourettes syndrome and randomly curse for no reason then  stay away from playgrounds and daycare centers.

It is extremely difficult for people suffering from Tourette’s to control what they say.These people are on heavy duty medication 24/7.They have a right to enjoy their lives just like anyone else.

[CPT Trips]

12 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Actually, simply allowing all places to charge a fee regardless of what someone calls their animal would stop most of it.  If WDW would charge more for an animal to enter the parks than staying in the kennel, it would reduce the fraud.

 

Really? You want to charge people with disabilities extra. Would you be willing to exempt Vets? 

 

[NLH Arizona]

12 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Actually, simply allowing all places to charge a fee regardless of what someone calls their animal would stop most of it.  If WDW would charge more for an animal to enter the parks than staying in the kennel, it would reduce the fraud.

Charging someone who has a true service dog to go into a place like WDW, how heartless can one be.  A service dog allows someone with a disability to live a more normal live.  A blind person can go out and about and be safe, because they have their guide dog guiding them.  A person with mobility issues, can be made more mobile because of their service dog.  A person with diabetes doesn't have to worry about their blood sugar getting to low, because their service dog will alert them.  Some one who is hearing impaired, will know when a horn is being honked at them, because their service dog alerted them. A person who has epilepsy can put themselves in a safe position, because their service dog alerted them to a on coming seizure.  Yes, charing for service dogs is pretty heartless.

 

BTW, emotional support dogs are not covered by the ADA, thus should not be allowed in any location where dogs are not allowed, including public buildings, government buildings, restaurants, banks, grocery stores, etc.

Edited January 25, 2020 by NLH Arizona

[ilikeanswers]

The number of fake emotional support dogs is exploding – why?

 

5 Things to Consider Before Judging Fake Service Dogs

 

Seems the issue of ESAs are bound up in a lot of other issues. Not sure there is a simple solution to the problem🤔. 

[dobiemom]

My favorite: 

 https://youtu.be/N7HFXgyTya0

[ed01106]

22 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

Not sure there is a simple solution to the problem🤔. 

Actually there is an easy solution: make it a class E felony to misrepresent a pet as either a service dog or esa.  Make it a class C felony to fraudulently certify an animal (with automatic loss of license) as service or esa.  Require handler to carry certification at all times.  Aggressively shut down the mills.

Edited January 25, 2020 by ed01106

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

The number of fake emotional support dogs is exploding – why?

 

5 Things to Consider Before Judging Fake Service Dogs

 

Seems the issue of ESAs are bound up in a lot of other issues. Not sure there is a simple solution to the problem🤔. 

 

People who have legitimate SERVICE animals should be the biggest opponents of ESA abuse, as they call into question and taint their legitimate need.

[CPT Trips]

There is no formal certification process for service animals that is recognized under the ADA. Way back when the legislation and subsequent regulations were being developed, certification was considered. It wasn’t included in large measure because of opposition by the “disability community.”

 

A surprising number of people train their own service animal and it often works out quite well. Those that don’t make the grade make terrific pets for TABs.

[lenquixote66]

Psychologists at UV University in Amsterdam report that stuffed animals help people with anxiety. I have heard of people taking stuffed animals on cruises.

 

 

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Really? You want to charge people with disabilities extra. Would you be willing to exempt Vets? 

 

 

4 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

Charging someone who has a true service dog to go into a place like WDW, how heartless can one be.  A service dog allows someone with a disability to live a more normal live.  A blind person can go out and about and be safe, because they have their guide dog guiding them.  A person with mobility issues, can be made more mobile because of their service dog.  A person with diabetes doesn't have to worry about their blood sugar getting to low, because their service dog will alert them.  Some one who is hearing impaired, will know when a horn is being honked at them, because their service dog alerted them. A person who has epilepsy can put themselves in a safe position, because their service dog alerted them to a on coming seizure.  Yes, charing for service dogs is pretty heartless.

 

BTW, emotional support dogs are not covered by the ADA, thus should not be allowed in any location where dogs are not allowed, including public buildings, government buildings, restaurants, banks, grocery stores, etc.

Why  not charge?  Where did the idea that disability requires charity come from?  From the phrase, Hand-in-cap which is an old English trading game and the term itself is the origin of the modern word "handicap", the image of holding a cap out for strangers to place money in.  Not a very empowering image.

Specifically at WDW, anyone going to WDW can afford a animal ticket. There have been increasing incidents of attacks on legit service dogs by fraudulent service dogs since they started allowing pets in resorts,  Since there is no charge for service dogs (and you are supposed to pay to kennel a pet while in the parks) and it is easy to claim a dog a service dog you might as well , you so don't have pay the pet fee, you can then take Bitey McBitey into the parks for your Instagram photos with their fav character.  

Comparing guide dogs to most any other service dog is like comparing a Ferrari to a bike.  Guide dogs are superbly trained and never home schooled.    Guide dog schools are accredited and the term "seeing eye dog"  is trademarked by The Seeing Eye school.  If all service animals meet the criteria of guide dogs from accredited schools, fraudulent service animals would be few.   

Or you could require folks to provide proof of a disability.  I have working the in field for over 40 years with hundreds of clients with cognitive, physical, intellectually and diagnoses of mental illness.  Exactly one person has a service dog that he needed to pay $25,000 for (as each dog retires, he gets another since dogs only have a average working career of about 7 years).  This dog is trained to help him with tasks around his house that he is unable to complete due to cerebral palsy.  The dog does not work outside the house because he travels with an assistant and is not trained for tasks outside the house.  

The photo was taken at the Magic Kingdom of two "service dogs" in those carriers.  

[NLH Arizona]

3 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

Why  not charge?  Where did the idea that disability requires charity come from? 

Wow, just wow.

 

 

 

[Elaine5715]

Just now, NLH Arizona said:

Wow, just wow.

 

 

 

Again, why?  Pity, sympathy, charity? 

[NLH Arizona]

2 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Again, why?  Pity, sympathy, charity? 

Not, pity, not sympathy, not charity, just the right thing to do so someone can have a better life, but you'll never understand that.

 

 

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Really? You want to charge people with disabilities extra. Would you be willing to exempt Vets? 

 

The vast, vast, vast majority of individuals with disabilities don't have the need or means to acquire a service animal.  There is also a significant number of folks with disabilities that have huge fear of dogs and allergic reactions on top of fragile health issues that make coming across service animals in public hazardous.   

[Elaine5715]

2 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Not, pity, not sympathy, not charity, just the right thing to do so someone can have a better life, but you'll never understand that.

 

 

A better life?  I realized you skipped over a large portion of my post.  Why do you think having a disability prevents anyone from having a great life?  

[Joebucks]

34 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Not, pity, not sympathy, not charity, just the right thing to do so someone can have a better life, but you'll never understand that.

 

While I agree, the problem is there is no line that defines this. There are a lot of people whos "disability" claim is extremely questionable. Dare I take it even a step further and say there are plenty of people who require special treatment because of extremely poor care of their bodies, which makes it harder to have empathy on the topic. Then there's the people who truly need can't help their unfortunate situation, and don't want to be treated specially. Now there is when you see my empathy and need for proper treatment. However, again, where does that start and stop anymore? We live in a world where nutcases can't enjoy a vacation without their bichon coming to dinner with them.

[NLH Arizona]

10 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

While I agree, the problem is there is no line that defines this. There are a lot of people whos "disability" claim is extremely questionable. Dare I take it even a step further and say there are plenty of people who require special treatment because of extremely poor care of their bodies, which makes it harder to have empathy on the topic. Then there's the people who truly need can't help their unfortunate situation, and don't want to be treated specially. Now there is when you see my empathy and need for proper treatment. However, again, where does that start and stop anymore? We live in a world where nutcases can't enjoy a vacation without their bichon coming to dinner with them.

If you are ever on a cruise with a service dog, not emotional support or pet, come back and let everyone know your experience, because it will be totally differeent that the bichon.

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

Why  not charge?  Where did the idea that disability requires charity come from?  From the phrase, Hand-in-cap which is an old English trading game and the term itself is the origin of the modern word "handicap", the image of holding a cap out for strangers to place money in.  Not a very empowering image.

Specifically at WDW, anyone going to WDW can afford a animal ticket. There have been increasing incidents of attacks on legit service dogs by fraudulent service dogs since they started allowing pets in resorts,  Since there is no charge for service dogs (and you are supposed to pay to kennel a pet while in the parks) and it is easy to claim a dog a service dog you might as well , you so don't have pay the pet fee, you can then take Bitey McBitey into the parks for your Instagram photos with their fav character.  

Comparing guide dogs to most any other service dog is like comparing a Ferrari to a bike.  Guide dogs are superbly trained and never home schooled.    Guide dog schools are accredited and the term "seeing eye dog"  is trademarked by The Seeing Eye school.  If all service animals meet the criteria of guide dogs from accredited schools, fraudulent service animals would be few.   

Or you could require folks to provide proof of a disability.  I have working the in field for over 40 years with hundreds of clients with cognitive, physical, intellectually and diagnoses of mental illness.  Exactly one person has a service dog that he needed to pay $25,000 for (as each dog retires, he gets another since dogs only have a average working career of about 7 years).  This dog is trained to help him with tasks around his house that he is unable to complete due to cerebral palsy.  The dog does not work outside the house because he travels with an assistant and is not trained for tasks outside the house.  

The photo was taken at the Magic Kingdom of two "service dogs" in those carriers.  

That must have been waaaayyyyy out beyond left field with all your lack of understanding of disabilities and of the problem under discussion.

Not that you have any sort of a legitimate argument suggesting charging for service dogs entrance, but what gives you the right to determine that anyone going to WDW can certainly afford a kennel.

[CPT Trips]

Some just flat out miss the reality of the ADA. It’s not about charity, there’s a reason it is enforced by the Civil Rights Division of DoJ.

“Three weeks ago we celebrated our nation's Independence Day. Today we're here to rejoice in and celebrate another 'independence day,' one that is long overdue. With today's signing of the landmark Americans for Disabilities Act, every man, woman, and child with a disability can now pass through once-closed doors into a bright new era of equality, independence, and freedom."

George H.W. Bush at the signing of The Americans wit Disabilities Act

 

This article gives a good explanation of the differences between Emotional Support Animals (not included in ADA protections), service animals and psychiatric service animals (included in ADA protections). https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/service-dog-training-101/

 

Just to be clear, guide dogs are not the only kind of service dog out there. Service dogs may do lots of different tasks for different people. Here’s a list of 150 tasks service dogs might perform. https://www.theatomichound.com/gigantic-list-of-the-top-150-service-dog-tasks/  Estimates are that guide dogs make up about a tenth or less of the number of service dogs, 10,000 guide dogs of and estimated 100,000 to 200,000 (http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/)

 

[MicCanberra]

On 1/23/2020 at 10:54 AM, Tom47 said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/01/22/emotional-support-animals-new-dot-rule-would-let-airlines-refuse-them/4540901002/

I'm hoping cruise lines adopt this rule.

I suppose my stress Python won't be allowed to travel anymore.

[davecttr]

On 1/24/2020 at 1:31 PM, ilikeanswers said:

Need to travel with a dog? Try cruising this luxury liner

 

Perhaps one day cruising with a pet might be normal 😋. 

Apparently only on some transatlantic crossings where the ship is as much a form of transport. The other UK cruise lines I use allow guide dogs etc as long as they have the appropriate certification etc. They must also wear their harness when out of the cabin and are not allowed to roam everywhere. I have never seen a guide dog aboard a cruise but they do occasionally appear.

[ilikeanswers]

What exactly is appropriate certification/accreditation for a service animal? Especially if you are a business with international customers how are you suppose to know what is an official service certification/accreditation considering every country would have their own system🤔. 

[K32682]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:16 PM, ed01106 said:

I am all for people getting assistance for their mental illness.

 

But there needs to be balance with the sanity requirement of keeping pets out of restaurants and the fact that millions of people are allergic to pet dander.

 

If you can’t go on a cruise without you fury friend, don’t go on a cruise.  If you can’t control your tourettes syndrome and randomly curse for no reason then  stay away from playgrounds and daycare centers.

 

You don't get to decide.  If the cruise line permits it why should I not go on a cruise and take my companion animal?  Take your outrage up with the people who own the boat. 

 

This is been a very educational thread. Until now I was unaware of how easy it was to obtain accreditation for an emotional support animal and the number of cruise lines that permit them.  It would improve the quality of our vacation to have our companion animal accompany us and we will save on kennel fees. 

[Joebucks]

15 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

If you are ever on a cruise with a service dog, not emotional support or pet, come back and let everyone know your experience, because it will be totally differeent that the bichon.

 

I never said I had a problem with true service animals.