Help with disabled relative who probably shouldn’t cruise but is insisting.

[Farts]

28 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Thanks very much. Fortunately I’m not the one paying $7k for their cruise. DS and DiIL are. They decided that with pre-existing they’d get partial or zero with insurance depending on how close to departure should he have another CVA. I suggested keeping it for med evac alone but it’s their choice. I shudder at the thought of a DVT taking a 3 hour flight prior. I just want to be able to enjoy my cruise without being shackled. He’s fortunate the kids are MDs. They’ve urged him to back off on this but it’s not going to happen- he’s demanding and they can’t say no. Sure appreciate your care and concern😀

Virchow's triad is for real.

 

but I'm sure your DS and DIL know about DVT ppx, esp for airplanes. 

[Farts]

7 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

They most certainly can say no.  They just seem to not want to.

Easier said than done.

 

It's really hard to tell your parents what to do, even as a doctor. Parents don't always listen since they are....you know...your parents. 

[Petoonya]

1 minute ago, Farts said:

Virchow's triad is for real.

 

but I'm sure your DS and DIL know about DVT ppx, esp for airplanes. 

They are certainly aware and neuro contributed her opinion as well. I don’t get it but it’s the way he is. Isn’t there a 40% chance of stroke within the first year anyway?

[Petoonya]

Just now, Farts said:

Easier said than done.

 

It's really hard to tell your parents what to do, even as a doctor. Parents don't always listen since they are....you know...your parents. 

You got it!

[ColeThornton]

2 minutes ago, Farts said:

Easier said than done.

 

It's really hard to tell your parents what to do, even as a doctor. Parents don't always listen since they are....you know...your parents. 

 

 

Maybe, but it's time to grow a pair.  This trip has disaster written all over it.

[smplybcause]

5 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

I’d not be disgusted by someone sticking their mouth under the faucet to get a drink of water. I am disgusted by some one gargling and spitting that water and saliva in the kitchen sink. And clearing throat and spitting the contents in the sink. It is not sanitary. Maybe I’m weird but it literally makes my stomach flip flop. The kitchen sink is not the cleanest place in the world but it’s not meant to be a spittoon IMO. 

 

It's a sink. It's where you wash hands, deal with raw meat sometimes, rinse of plates (which will undoubtedly have saliva transferred to them from utensils) after having eaten - all germs as worse or worse than what's in a human mouth. And yeah, it happens to be in a kitchen but sinks are where people spit out toothpaste and rinse out their mouths - most I know don't use cups when they do that. That's essentially the same thing, just minus the toothpaste. 

[Petoonya]

2 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Maybe, but it's time to grow a pair.  This trip has disaster written all over it.

Ha ha! DIL can’t say no to her DF and My DS can’t say no to his DW despite my exhortations.

 

[Farts]

3 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

They are certainly aware and neuro contributed her opinion as well. I don’t get it but it’s the way he is. Isn’t there a 40% chance of stroke within the first year anyway?

It's really high. Not sure about the exact rate since I am not a neurologist. All I know about is the ABCD score for TIA. 

 

But idk the rx he's on. many cva are not managed correctly with the correct dosage of statins. American Academy of Clinical Endocrinology says that LDL-C should be less than 55 in ppl with CVA, but most ppl follow AHA/ACC/NLA/Multisociety guidelines, which are less stringent and suggest a threshold of LDL-C of 70. Plus, IDK if his doctors or your DS or DIL checked non-HDL-C or apoB. Most doctors don't even know about non-HDL-C or apoB tbh. 

 

Just some food for thought. 

[Petoonya]

4 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

It's a sink. It's where you wash hands, deal with raw meat sometimes, rinse of plates (which will undoubtedly have saliva transferred to them from utensils) after having eaten - all germs as worse or worse than what's in a human mouth. And yeah, it happens to be in a kitchen but sinks are where people spit out toothpaste and rinse out their mouths - most I know don't use cups when they do that. That's essentially the same thing, just minus the toothpaste. 

Not ok in kitchen sink.

i agree to disagree and nothing more to be said on the subject on this end.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Petoonya

[Petoonya]

1 minute ago, Farts said:

It's really high. Not sure about the exact rate since I am not a neurologist. All I know about is the ABCD score for TIA. 

 

But idk the rx he's on. many cva are not managed correctly with the correct dosage of statins. American Academy of Clinical Endocrinology says that LDL-C should be less than 55 in ppl with CVA, but most ppl follow AHA/ACC/NLA/Multisociety guidelines, which are less stringent and suggest a threshold of LDL-C of 70. Plus, IDK if his doctors or your DS or DIL checked non-HDL-C or apoB. Most doctors don't even know about non-HDL-C or apoB tbh. 

 

Just some food for thought. 

Unfortunately it wouldn’t matter. Unless he has another event before May 17 he’s going.

[Farts]

7 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Maybe, but it's time to grow a pair.  This trip has disaster written all over it.

Lol, I tell it to them all the time to their face. but they don't listen. You misunderstand what I am saying. It's hard for parents to accept the advice of their children all the time since it's coming from their children. 

 

Ppl in general just don't listen to Drs. How many diabetic or heart failure patients do you see on a cruise eating salty or sugary food? 

[Farts]

4 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Unfortunately it wouldn’t matter. Unless he has another event before May 17 he’s going.

I wish him and you the best of luck. 

 

I had people get sick in my party before. I of course have to care for them. Not the funniest thing, but sometimes it has to be done if no one else is around to help while sailing in the open ocean. 

[smplybcause]

15 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Not ok in kitchen sink.

i agree to disagree and nothing more to be said on the subject on this end.

 

They're all still sinks that all flow to the same spot with the express purpose of bringing things to the sewer or septic system. 

 

It's your prerogative to hate everything your son's in-laws do including innocuous stuff. Hopefully that tension doesn't eventually result in someone having to make a choice, but I've definitely seen hatred break people apart.  

[Arzeena]

Dear Peetoonya

I followed all your threads. You have worked yourself up into quite a storm.

I will very simply say that people are from different countries, backgrounds and cultures, and it comes down to what seems OK and what is a norm in one is not OK in another. It comes down to peoples' differences/ diversities. One does not have to discriminated against for these differences. One is not bad because of that.

 

After reading about all your efforts I kind of feel sympathy for your son, DIL and the in laws. I am sorry I do not feel that for you, though I absolutely understand what you are saying. It seems you are completely obsessed with having the in laws not go and will do anything to justify that (and I do understand you may be right). Peetyona, please this mind set and negativity is not going to be good for you. You are preventing yourself from enjoying your cruise by getting obsessed about this. Believe me I am not judging you, but saying it from one human being to another.

 

In all this who is the one who is going to get most hurt and torn between you an the others? Ask yourself that question.
Let it go....by "it" I mean the hatered and the in law bashing.  You prepare your own "to do" on this cruise for you and DH and let the others take care of themselves. It may be best not to worry about them, to let them make their own agenda and not to be coming up with a million reasons why they should not be doing something. I wish you good luck and I wish them a double dose of good luck.

 

And in the big picture please remember karma.

Wish you peace.

[April42749]

14 minutes ago, Arzeena said:

Dear Peetoonya

I followed all your threads. You have worked yourself up into quite a storm.

I will very simply say that people are from different countries, backgrounds and cultures, and it comes down to what seems OK and what is a norm in one is not OK in another. It comes down to peoples' differences/ diversities. One does not have to discriminated against for these differences. One is not bad because of that.

 

After reading about all your efforts I kind of feel sympathy for your son, DIL and the in laws. I am sorry I do not feel that for you, though I absolutely understand what you are saying. It seems you are completely obsessed with having the in laws not go and will do anything to justify that (and I do understand you may be right). Peetyona, please this mind set and negativity is not going to be good for you. You are preventing yourself from enjoying your cruise by getting obsessed about this. Believe me I am not judging you, but saying it from one human being to another.

 

In all this who is the one who is going to get most hurt and torn between you an the others? Ask yourself that question.
Let it go....by "it" I mean the hatered and the in law bashing.  You prepare your own "to do" on this cruise for you and DH and let the others take care of themselves. It may be best not to worry about them, to let them make their own agenda and not to be coming up with a million reasons why they should not be doing something. I wish you good luck and I wish them a double dose of good luck.

 

And in the big picture please remember karma.

Wish you peace.

Wow....really not called for.

She wants to go on vacation for a good time....not be dragged down by "that situation".

And she should not feel guilty or let it ruin her vacation if something unforeseen happens.

 

 

[esm54687]

5 hours ago, Petoonya said:

Thanks very much. Fortunately I’m not the one paying $7k for their cruise. DS and DiIL are. They decided that with pre-existing they’d get partial or zero with insurance depending on how close to departure should he have another CVA. I suggested keeping it for med evac alone but it’s their choice. I shudder at the thought of a DVT taking a 3 hour flight prior. I just want to be able to enjoy my cruise without being shackled. He’s fortunate the kids are MDs. They’ve urged him to back off on this but it’s not going to happen- he’s demanding and they can’t say no. Sure appreciate your care and concern😀

Sorry to rant a little but the OP has ranted as well about this.

 

Let's address your DS & DIL, as you stated are both physicians, who are being super selfish not accepting the legitimate risks for another CVA and the collateral damage if another happens on the cruise......   you stated there's a 40% risk of another stroke in the first year and their selfishness could possibly subject innocent passengers, including children, to witness a medical emergency..... strokes are super scary if you've ever seen one.

 

What a wonderful thing that TWO physicians would take a relative, AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE, and potentially impact a child with nightmares witnessing a stroke..... not to mention the delay to air lift him from the ship thus disrupting 3,000 other passengers and maybe missing excursions or ports because they can't say "no to daddy" 

 

IMHO: I think spitting in the sink is less disgusting than 2 physicians consciously allowing this trip to happen. 

[Farts]

11 minutes ago, esm54687 said:

Sorry to rant a little but the OP has ranted as well about this.

 

Let's address your DS & DIL, as you stated are both physicians, who are being super selfish not accepting the legitimate risks for another CVA and the collateral damage if another happens on the cruise......   you stated there's a 40% risk of another stroke in the first year and their selfishness could possibly subject innocent passengers, including children, to witness a medical emergency..... strokes are super scary if you've ever seen one.

 

What a wonderful thing that TWO physicians would take a relative, AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE, and potentially impact a child with nightmares witnessing a stroke..... not to mention the delay to air lift him from the ship thus disrupting 3,000 other passengers and maybe missing excursions or ports because they can't say "no to daddy" 

 

IMHO: I think spitting in the sink is less disgusting than 2 physicians consciously allowing this trip to happen. 

this is why i think they should buy insurance. just my opinion 

 

and secondary prevention is important

Edited January 29, 2020 by Farts

[esm54687]

24 minutes ago, Farts said:

this is why i think they should buy insurance. just my opinion 

 

and secondary prevention is important

Can't buy it because of pre existing conditions and even if they could...... the minute they file a claim and the insurance company asks for medical history....... OOPS...... traveled against medical advice. DECLINED!! 

[Farts]

4 minutes ago, esm54687 said:

Can't buy it because of pre existing conditions and even if they could...... the minute they file a claim and the insurance company asks for medical history....... OOPS...... traveled against medical advice. DECLINED!! 

oh. i have never bought insurance before for cruising. thanks

[esm54687]

8 minutes ago, Farts said:

oh. i have never bought insurance before for cruising. thanks

You have a certain window of time to purchase for "pre existing" immediately after you book - typically 2 weeks and after that it's not available. 

[FitchburgWIFamily]

40 minutes ago, April42749 said:

Wow....really not called for.

She wants to go on vacation for a good time....not be dragged down by "that situation".

And she should not feel guilty or let it ruin her vacation if something unforeseen happens.

 

 

 I didn't think Arzeena's post was out of line at all.  I agree with what she said.

 

What started out as an expressed concern for a disabled person travelling on a ship soon devolved into a bunch of personal commentary about the DIL's father.   So they eat with their hands?  Many people do.  It isn't done to offend anyone and it is not "bad manners" it is culturally appropriate for them.  His habit of spitting into a kitchen sink is not likely to impact the OP on the cruise, so really wasn't relevant to this discussion.  At the end of the day, what the OP has proven is that she doesn't like the man and she doesn't want to cruise with him.

 

The OP can only control so much.   Arzeena was recommending the OP step back and stop letting so much of this drama impact her and her husband's cruise.  There is an expression:  you can't change anyone else's actions, you can only change your own reaction.  The OP cannot make her son, her DIL, or her DIL's father do anything different than what they are currently doing, she can only change how she reacts to it. 

 

As I see it, the OP has some choices: 

1.  The cruise is in May: hopefully more than 90 days out.   Cancel and book another cruise.   

2.  Go on the cruise and make the best of it.   But making the best of it means not trying to split the son away from his wife.  

3.  Continue to try to come up with reasons why the in-laws shouldn't go along.  We've cycled through because he is disabled, because he might have another stroke, because he has bad manners and because he is unpleasant.  We can probably find a few more.   However, the problem with option 3 is that it could drive a wedge between the OP and her son, as it is making her son choose between his mother and his wife.  I think Arzeena was just pointing out that the OP was making it more difficult for her son.

 

Petoonya:  I don't know if too much conversation has already happened, but instead of talking about all the reasons why the man should not go,  it might be more helpful to your son and your DIL if you share with them what they should do so the man can go.   Recommend they reserve a scooter for use on board, or at the very least a wheel chair (NCL can tell them whom to book through).    If the DIL's father can't do steps,  they should contact NCL and ask to get a handicapped room (remember, bathroom is  step up with no grab bar to assist in a non-handicapped room).   Does he need a 17 inch toilet with grab bars (only in a handicapped room)?   Does their stateroom have a shower stall or a tub?  Some ships, some room classes only have a tub with a shower in it.  It doesn't sound as though your DIL's father is up to stepping in and out of a tub.  Is their room large enough to store a mobility device (like a scooter or a wheel chair)?  Most rooms are not.  And the stateroom doors are not wide enough for most wheel chairs.   

 

Maybe, just maybe, you'll be lucky and they won't be able to get a handicapped room for the FIL and the problem will resolve itself.

 

If it doesn't, as Arzeena recommended:  let it go.   

[Granny DI]

10 hours ago, Petoonya said:

Ha ha! DIL can’t say no to her DF and My DS can’t say no to his DW despite my exhortations.

 

Been there many times. I say my 2 cents then shut my mouth. Really hard for me to keep it shut!  Hope you have a great cruise in spite of everything happening. Only you know what is best for you. None of us are walking in your shoes.

[smplybcause]

5 hours ago, April42749 said:

Wow....really not called for.

She wants to go on vacation for a good time....not be dragged down by "that situation".

And she should not feel guilty or let it ruin her vacation if something unforeseen happens.

 

 

 

If she wanted to go on a vacation alone - she should have gone on a vacation alone. By signing up for a family vacation... you're signing up for a family vacation. 

 

I went on a family cruise that had youngins so I ate dinner hours before I usually do on a cruise. While my family encouraged me to go on an individual excursion if I wanted, I chose to go with the family off ship. And, as the cruise was on Oasis, I can't tell you how many times my grown up butt went spiraling around on the carousel because the youngins wanted me to join. 

 

If you hate the family going on the vacation you should probably just not go instead of grudgingly going on it and white lying (another thread) your way out of things. And I say this as a person where my family knew not to call me before 9am for breakfast so I ate a lot of breakfasts alone. 

[texasgirl29]

My experience with a disabled relative: My BIL had Downs Syndrome and lived his whole life with his parents; they are now approaching 80. They like to cruise a couple of times a year and almost always take him with them. He enjoyed the food, taking photos with the crew, swimming, taking more photos on excursions. About two years ago, that changed as he developed Alzheimer's when he was about 50. His entire personality changed, he didn't want to eat or was fed like a baby, he had strokes, was incontinent. He became angry. Yet his parents insisted he wanted to go on a cruise around the British Isles. He couldn't or wouldn't walk and they brought a wheel chair for him. (MIL had recently had hip replacement and was using a walker as well.) He had an episode on the overnight trip to Paris, vomiting all the way back to Le Havre (we were stuck in traffic for 2.5 hours to boot). He had diarrhea and the cabin (next to ours) smelled to high heaven. Although we had paid for all excursions prior to the trip, either his mother or father stayed with him most of the time, losing two fares in each port. He spent a couple of days in the ship's infirmary. I don't believe he enjoyed the trip one bit and it was no picnic for the rest of us. 

 

So, to the OP, I sympathize with your plight. 

[hamrag]

16 hours ago, Arzeena said:

....You have worked yourself up into quite a storm....Believe me I am not judging you!

 

....I kind of feel sympathy for your son, DIL and the in laws. I am sorry I do not feel that for you...Believe me I am not judging you!

 

...It seems you are completely obsessed with having the in laws not go and will do anything to justify that...Believe me I am not judging you!

 

...You are preventing yourself from enjoying your cruise by getting obsessed about this...Believe me I am not judging you!

 

.... I wish them a double dose of good luck...Believe me I am not judging you!

 

....And in the big picture please remember karma....Believe me I am not judging you!

 

Mmmm, and you ask her, and presumably us, to believe you!! 🤔