Seabourn and the current issues surrounding the Corona Virus

[SLSD]

I know that Cruiselawnews.com may not be your favorite website, but they are reporting here something that some of you may want to know:  https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/01/articles/disease/coronavirus-celebrity-holland-america-line-and-seabourn-cruises-refuse-to-cancel-or-refund-cruises-to-china/?fbclid=IwAR1jmowJRc0m7Uf10yIAnLE9Y1wSQEwY0raIrlPvu4A39K-EaahWQR32iNk

[cuddles115]

This is very scary.  Hope your'e not on a cruise to China.

[SLSD]

2 hours ago, cuddles115 said:

This is very scary.  Hope your'e not on a cruise to China.

No, we are not, but I am watching this story closely.  Cruise ships are already incubators for illness (hence all the intense hand washing we always do), so I don't know what happens here.  There is the long incubation period to deal with---a period with no symptoms.  Is this worse than the flu? Do we know?  Of course most of us have had the vaccine for that--even if it doesn't always prevent the illness entirely.  I would be concerned if I was schedule to embark in Hong Kong.  It would concern me on several levels.  

[saminina]

Interesting that Genting, huge in Chinese market is re-routing ships to avoid Hong Kong and other Chinese ports.  Same with its Crystal ships enroute to Hong Kong.

Edited January 28, 2020 by saminina

[Cantara24]

My request & hope for this thread which was bound to appear …. no hyperbole. The 1st referenced media article above is just that … intended to inflame.

Be guided by the Health Advisories from whichever Country you come from but please, no panic stuff. Cruise companies have been here before.

By the by, a cruise ship containing 600 souls or 900 souls is far different from one of the mega ships, +1000's

[Cantara24]

Thanks geoffieg for chiming in. Rationale debate is what I would prefer to see versus the over top reactions these situations can generate on social media. I am not at the point of  calling Seabourn irresponsible for not acting to your level of response. I am open to discussion so I will not call your comment as short sighted.

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Cantara24 said:

My request & hope for this thread which was bound to appear …. no hyperbole. The 1st referenced media article above is just that … intended to inflame.

Be guided by the Health Advisories from whichever Country you come from but please, no panic stuff. Cruise companies have been here before.

By the by, a cruise ship containing 600 souls or 900 souls is far different from one of the mega ships, +1000's

This is why I acknowledged that Cruise Law. com is not everyone's favorite site.  I've been reading articles everywhere.  I am not sure if it is hyperbole or not.  The reports I hear from someone who has family in China is that the streets are empty and public places are empty.  I think they are very concerned.  Of course Hong Kong is not the mainland.  Here's an article from the Cruise Critic website:  https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5016/

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by SLSD

[cuddles115]

I'm amazed at the contrast of ideas and opinions.  On the one hand, there is concern as to when formal night will take place as above,  On the other, worry about the Corona Virus and whether SB will or won't dock in China.  The concerns of the sailors is mind boggling.  It reminds me, somewhat. of the band playing while the Titanic was sinking.

[SLSD]

25 minutes ago, cuddles115 said:

I'm amazed at the contrast of ideas and opinions.  On the one hand, there is concern as to when formal night will take place as above,  On the other, worry about the Corona Virus and whether SB will or won't dock in China.  The concerns of the sailors is mind boggling.  It reminds me, somewhat. of the band playing while the Titanic was sinking.

Well, you are right Cuddles 155.  I could give a flying flip when formal night is.  I know that they sometimes even change the day due to various circumstances.  Whenever it is, wherever we are dining, a good time will be had. 

[Kruzngrlz]

We are due to cruise out of Hong Kong in February and are really concerned.  I spoke with Seabourn this morning and the rep was very nonchalant about the situation.  They are most likely reading from a script.  In light of the airlines canceling flights in/out of Hong Kong I would hope that Seabourn would at least address the issue and show some concern for passengers and crew.   We were really looking forward to this cruise and hopefully there will be some alternative route.  Time will tell.

[frantic36]

39 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Well, you are right Cuddles 155.  I could give a flying flip when formal night is.  I know that they sometimes even change the day due to various circumstances.  Whenever it is, wherever we are dining, a good time will be had. 

 

 

All questions are relevant if it pertains to cruising. 

 

I don't think anyone should be complacent but Cruise Law will definitely overdramatise things.

 

Just a by the by regarding respiratory illnesses. Maybe it is because I usually do long cruises but when I cruise during Northern Hemisphere winters I have to be extra vigilant. I have had a couple of severe respiratory infections which exacerbate my asthma. I put this down to cruisers from the northern hemisphere boarding with infections. I have had my flu vaccine but maybe it is more for southern hemisphere viruses? I have just recently got the pneumovax vaccine even though I am younger than 65 to see if that will help.

 

I don't have the same issue when I travel during the northern hemisphere Summer. And I usually avoid cold climates when I travel. 

 

Just a different perspective regarding respiratory illnesses as influenza is often deadly as well.

 

Julie

[SLSD]

2 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

All questions are relevant if it pertains to cruising. 

 

I don't think anyone should be complacent but Cruise Law will definitely overdramatise things.

 

Just a by the by regarding respiratory illnesses. Maybe it is because I usually do long cruises but when I cruise during Northern Hemisphere winters I have to be extra vigilant. I have had a couple of severe respiratory infections which exacerbate my asthma. I put this down to cruisers from the northern hemisphere boarding with infections. I have had my flu vaccine but maybe it is more for southern hemisphere viruses? I have just recently got the pneumovax vaccine even though I am younger than 65 to see if that will help.

 

I don't have the same issue when I travel during the northern hemisphere Summer. And I usually avoid cold climates when I travel. 

 

Just a different perspective regarding respiratory illnesses as influenza is often deadly as well.

 

Julie

Julie, I totally agree.  The flu can be a killer.  I don't know how this new virus compares.  I read that something like 6,000 people have died from the flu in the United States this winter.  (Please check me on that.) At any rate, we have lost more from the flu in the last 12 months than have died from this new virus--but of course it is just getting started.  

 

[frantic36]

11 minutes ago, Kruzngrlz said:

We are due to cruise out of Hong Kong in February and are really concerned.  I spoke with Seabourn this morning and the rep was very nonchalant about the situation.  They are most likely reading from a script.  In light of the airlines canceling flights in/out of Hong Kong I would hope that Seabourn would at least address the issue and show some concern for passengers and crew.   We were really looking forward to this cruise and hopefully there will be some alternative route.  Time will tell.

 

 

Looking at the map which highlights where various places worldwide have cases registered it is prevalent all around that region. I know Crystal has changed it's embarkation and disembarkation to Taipei but why is that necessarily safer? It is still near China and has Chinese nationals travelling in the area for the Lunar New Year. 

 

Masks and hand washing and avoiding crowded places might well be the most useful. Just my opinion.

 

Julie

[frantic36]

3 minutes ago, SLSD said:

Julie, I totally agree.  The flu can be a killer.  I don't know how this new virus compares.  I read that something like 6,000 people have died from the flu in the United States this winter.  (Please check me on that.) At any rate, we have lost more from the flu in the last 12 months than have died from this new virus--but of course it is just getting started.  

 

 

 

SLSD I agree this new bug is a concern but I am concerned that we avoid one place and go elsewhere which turns out just as risky.

 

With wearing masks please be aware that if they become moist because you have worn them for a long time they are less effective. This is my training from when I worked in large hospitals and dealt with infectious patients.

 

Julie

[cuddles115]

1 hour ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

SLSD I agree this new bug is a concern but I am concerned that we avoid one place and go elsewhere which turns out just as risky.

 

With wearing masks please be aware that if they become moist because you have worn them for a long time they are less effective. This is my training from when I worked in large hospitals and dealt with infectious patients.

 

Julie

You are, unfortunately, absolutely right.  In March of 1976, President Gerald Ford authorized that everyone in the USA be vaccinated against the swine flu. It cost the US over 100 million dollars.  Unfortunately, one of the major side effects of the vaccination was Guillain-Barre Syndrome and The Epstein Barr virus both of which deblitated and paralyzed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The Swine Flu never came to the USA. Was it better to be safe than sorry?  Who knows. Is history repeating itself with the Corona Virus? Again, who knows. But, I would hope that many will opt on the side of caution rather than be cavalier.

[MightyQuinn]

2 hours ago, frantic36 said:

.... I know Crystal has changed it's embarkation and disembarkation to Taipei but why is that necessarily safer? It is still near China and has Chinese nationals travelling in the area for the Lunar New Year.

 

So true.  We're on an upcoming Crystal voyage that changed both embarkation and disembarkation ports from Hong Kong to Keelung/Taipei.  It's mystifying why that would be better for limiting exposure to the Wuhan Virus given the travel patterns of Chinese nationals.  Nevertheless, we're now making flight and hotel changes to accommodate the change.  Will all be well?  As they say on the Crystal forum ... time will tell.

[Flamin_June]

I think there is a lot of over-dramatisation going on, notwithstanding that the outbreak of any novel human-to-human c-virus is a serious matter.

This is not Ebola.

It does seem to be very contagious but so is the common cold and influenza and other flu-like pathogens. As someone has pointed out, the current annual death toll from flu is far far greater than currently from this new coronavirus (Corona, btw, is a fizzy drink brand in the UK). At present there have been 132 deaths from c.6000 cases. That is a fatality rate of 2.2%.

There are 14 reported cases in Hong Kong, population 7,482,500. This is hardly a killer virus running rampant through various populations. If this new virus didn't exist, everyone boarding in Hong Kong would still be at far greater risk of catching a cold, or flu, or other virus.

The new cvirus is a nasty thing, no one wants to catch it, and it undoubtedly has the potential to kill weaker and more vunerable victims, but please keep things in perspective.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Flamin_June

[Flamin_June]

From www.worldometers/info

 

Every year an estimated 290,000 to 650,000 people die in the world due to complications from seasonal influenza (flu) viruses. This figure corresponds to 795 to 1,781 deaths per day due to the seasonal flu.

SARS (Nov. 2002 - Jul. 2003): was a coronavirus that originated from Beijing, China, spread to 29 countries, with 8,096 people infected and 774 deaths (with a fatality rate of 9.6%).

MERS (2012) killed 858 people out of the 2,494 infected (with a fatality rate of 34.4%).

[SLSD]

54 minutes ago, Flamin_June said:

From www.worldometers/info

 

Every year an estimated 290,000 to 650,000 people die in the world due to complications from seasonal influenza (flu) viruses. This figure corresponds to 795 to 1,781 deaths per day due to the seasonal flu.

SARS (Nov. 2002 - Jul. 2003): was a coronavirus that originated from Beijing, China, spread to 29 countries, with 8,096 people infected and 774 deaths (with a fatality rate of 9.6%).

MERS (2012) killed 858 people out of the 2,494 infected (with a fatality rate of 34.4%).

The Corona virus is a pneumonia type illness.  I think the concern is that it is a new virus (evidently was contracted by eating bats purchased in a market that sells wild animals as food) and there is always uncertainty with a new virus.  An additional concern for the cruising populations is that illnesses like this are most dangerous for older people.  I guess we will just have to wait and watch.  

 

[oceanviewer21]

I wonder if they are cancelling shore leave for the crew in Hong Kong?

[SLSD]

From today's NY Times:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3EL2nTLuxHyFhIUtLfRY5ezf4Fs05EoS7Kz8q8dZewqd0bNkwiHjIFFEE

 

[clarky]

As many cruise passengers are in the senior age bracket (reported deaths have mainly been in the over 55 age group) I can understand their concern about contracting the corona virus.  As mentioned this virus has a long incubation period which is why testing for signs of a temperature or visible signs of the flu on embarkation may be futile.  It only takes one passenger to infect a ship full of passengers and crew.  Australian scientist have managed to grow the virus in a lab and are working hard on a vaccine but as we know this takes time.  I also understand that more people in the US and Australian have died in our normal flu season but most people in the vulnerable age group are offered a flu shot.  This is not the case with the corona virus.   I also acknowledge that the media can inflate/inflame but also inform the general public and I'm sure statistically the chances of contracting the virus as a cruise passenger maybe low but I'm not sure if I was in the vulnerable age group for not surviving the virus I would take the chance.  We are cruising for 39 days on Seabourn from Cape Town, our flight is via Singapore and my husband has bought face masks and I have bought hand sanitizer and wipes and I intend to wipe down the tray table and seat as best I can on the plane.  Singapore Airlines has many flights to China and Hong Kong and who knows where my connecting plane has flown from previous to my flight. I will be as vigilant as I can be.

[jozi]

22 hours ago, cuddles115 said:

You are, unfortunately, absolutely right.  In March of 1976, President Gerald Ford authorized that everyone in the USA be vaccinated against the swine flu. It cost the US over 100 million dollars.  Unfortunately, one of the major side effects of the vaccination was Guillain-Barre Syndrome and The Epstein Barr virus both of which deblitated and paralyzed hundreds of thousands of Americans. The Swine Flu never came to the USA. Was it better to be safe than sorry?  Who knows. Is history repeating itself with the Corona Virus? Again, who knows. But, I would hope that many will opt on the side of caution rather than be cavalier.

Do you have data for 1976? According to this article there was a slight increased risk of GB, not anything near hundreds of thousands paralyzed. https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-public-health-legacy-of-the-1976-swine-flu-outbreak

[cuddles115]

40 minutes ago, jozi said:

Do you have data for 1976? According to this article there was a slight increased risk of GB, not anything near hundreds of thousands paralyzed. https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-public-health-legacy-of-the-1976-swine-flu-outbreak

YUP....   Without getting into my knowkedge of LGB and what I know for a fact as this is not a forum to dispute or discredit what occurred in 1976 but to learn by experience and studies of past pandemic -like situations. For example, the CDC reports of SARS and MERSA suggest that the present Coronavirus is less virulent than the either of the two. Will this be the same once the dust settles and the figures are digested? China reports the number of deaths has increased markedly in the past 24 hours. Statistics are what you make of the.

[oceanviewer21]

"An Italian cruise ship with 7,000 people on board is being held off the coast after a Chinese woman fell ill with a suspected case of coronavirus.

The Costa Smeralda vessel is currently being held in port at Civitavecchia, 35 miles north of Rome, after a 54-year-old woman from Macau came down with a fever."

 

So even stopping calling at Chinese ports isn't going to help.