Seabourn and the current issues surrounding the Corona Virus

[ael123]

1 hour ago, jozi said:

If you are on FB or twitter try sending them a PRIVATE message, that sometimes works. 

Interesting article from the Telegraph is called Is it safe to visit Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam and the rest of south-east Asia? Published Feb. 10th. It looks at the facts and data from countries in south east Asia omitting Hong Kong and mainland China. I agree the problem might not be contracting the virus from your visit but getting it from someone else on the ship who did not follow proper precautions.

[Paulchili]

7 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Paul,

 

Have you contacted Cathay to see if they can help you out?  With all that has been going on, seats may free up here and there.  Maybe they can get you an upgrade to a paid coach ticket, etc.

 

Ragnar

I have spoken to them twice. Cathay may have lots of space on their flights but that is of no help to me as all their flights go through HKG.

I would need an award on JL, QF or AA.

It just so happens that a true miracle occurred. A brand new routing was initiated by QF with direct flights from SFO to BNE and someone must have cancelled their tickets because suddenly I found 2 J awards with QF - talk about being in the right place at the right time as they were gone as soon as they appeared.

 

4 hours ago, ael123 said:

Ragnar, 

 

I called Cathay Pacific for days. They have a recording that says We are experiencing higher than normal call volume. Please call back. Then there is a click and the phone hangs up. My experience has been they are not taking calls.  

If you have the time (30-40 minutes) you can get through. I called 1 855 781-7104.

Good luck.

For those flying out of SFO or LAX, Fiji Airways has availability on some days at a far better price with lie flat seats in business.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Paulchili

[teamflames]

On 2/10/2020 at 3:36 AM, SLSD said:

I am not expert, but I have found that sometimes cruisemapper is incorrect.  I was following the reports of passengers on Ovation as to their location on a FB page. Then, I went to cruisemapper and that site was reporting the original itinerary and assumed the ship was in the planned location, when it was not.  

 

I want to say something else, which may be a bit unpopular here.  I get annoyed with posts which are obviously cheerleading and putting the most positive spin possible on a situation.  I like fairness, objectivity (which is sometime difficult to discern) and concern for those making very difficult decisions.  

 

I read a couple of FB pages concerned with Seabourn and there seems to be at least a slight effort to discourage reporting about the corona virus issues.  I could be wrong, but that is the feeling I am getting.  

 

NO ONE wants to be in the situation of the current passengers on the Princess Diamond.  It appears that while the ship is taking good care of the quarantined passengers, more of them are testing positive for the corona virus  which is sometimes without immediate symptoms.  Not all have been tested yet.  

 

One more point--currently, there are passengers on Ovation who embarked in Hong Kong.  It is hard to say where all of them are from or if any could have possibly been exposed to the virus.  I certainly hope not.  

Well said.

We don’t sail on Encore until April but are obviously keeping an eye on developments (which have been very dynamic in the last 10 days). I agree that there are a number of people who don’t have any upcoming sailings with a lot to say - it’s easy from the cheap seats.

There were a number of posters on fb and cc (more so on other lines than Sb) that loved to quote influenza comparisons and accuse those with concerns of hyperbole and dramatisation, interestingly with the events since those posts most have gone quiet. In a very short space of time, 2 ships in the region were quarantined, 1 still is having trouble confirming a disembarkation port, several including SB have had to not only change itineraries but change embarkation ports, some cruise lines have redeployed ships (NCL, Cunard) others are cancelling upcoming cruises. Airlines have changed rules regarding where they fly, countries are changing rules regarding ships entry.

There is no hysteria in being concerned of cruising at this time in the Asia region, in fact it shows a sound mind to be considering ones options. Not all concerns are simply about the chances of catching the virus, many are about the logistics and enjoyment of a vacation at this time in this region.

My personal view at this time is that Seabourn (and the other Carnival brands) have been slow with information sharing and with decision making.

I truly hope that the situation improves quickly. Good luck to those who are currently sailing and those who need to make decisions in the short term.

 

[teamflames]

5 hours ago, rols said:

I just read (channelnewsasia) that the Holland America Westerdam was refused permission to dock in Thailand today despite having been at sea nearly 2 weeks and having no reported infections on board. 

Given the earlier comments about Thailand's rather weak response to the virus thus far, it's odd that they should suddenly pick on a cruise ship to make an example of. 

I have to assume that come this Friday, when it will have been at sea for 14 days, assuming there is no infection which currently seems quite likely, it will be allowed to dock somewhere. 

I have been watching this one with interest, HAL have been at pains to say there are no case onboard (they obviously can’t test conclusively). I wonder if the fact it started it collected 800 passengers in Hk (very contentious decision) and was originally due to disembark in Shanghai has authorities concerned? Not to mention the sister co. is in quarantine and the Hal was denied entry by Japan has potentially spooked other decision makers.

I am surprised more ships are not simply pulling out of their upcoming itineraries.

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, teamflames said:

I agree that there are a number of people who don’t have any upcoming sailings with a lot to say - it’s easy from the cheap seats.

 

 

I have an upcoming cruise on QM2 in March and another on Sojourn end of April and obviously you don't appreciate my comments but thanks for your assumptions just because I hadn't mentioned them before.

 

Julie

[rols]

1 hour ago, teamflames said:

I have been watching this one with interest, HAL have been at pains to say there are no case onboard (they obviously can’t test conclusively). I wonder if the fact it started it collected 800 passengers in Hk (very contentious decision) and was originally due to disembark in Shanghai has authorities concerned? Not to mention the sister co. is in quarantine and the Hal was denied entry by Japan has potentially spooked other decision makers.

I am surprised more ships are not simply pulling out of their upcoming itineraries.

Not sure that collecting passengers in HK 10 days ago was that dreadful a decision. Even now there are very, very few (known) cases in HK and the chances of anyone picking up the virus before boarding was somewhere between indescribably and infinitesimally low. Most countries are still not banning HKers, some are still accepting flights from Beijing and this is 10 days later.

 

The poor people on the ship quarantined in Japan had the massive misfortune to have someone from Wuhan on the ship, I'm assuming HAL knows they didn't have such a passenger.

 

I'll assume they are being honest, they have been temperature monitoring and nobody has become sick. With latest research suggesting the median incubation period is 3 days (not peer-reviewed data as yet I agree), that ship is very likely infection-free.

 

... edit ... 

 

just to be clear. At this point I would think twice about getting on a cruise ship in Asia and possibly anywhere and if I had a booking I could cancel without much penalty I would do so. I do think the risk of catching the virus on a ship or actually anywhere outside Hubei is low, I think the passengers in Japan were insanely unlucky, but I'd avoid any risk if I economically could. We live in Singapore so we're in the country with the most cases outside China. Have we modified our behaviour, yes we have; are we living in desperate dread, we are not. We went out last night and had a lovely meal at a sadly empty restaurant but we're also driving more than taking public transport and being extra fastidious about cleanliness. 

 

I don't think Seabourn or any cruise line for that matter has done a great job getting ahead of this, I also do think that they know risks are low (although stakes are high) and shuffling the ship elsewhere may just land them in the middle of next week's outbreak. 

 

I added this edit because I know there are posters who are concerned people are glossing over the threat, I'm not trying to do that, I'm trying to be careful but realistic and I apologise to anyone who thinks my take lacks the correct balance. 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by rols
clarification

[Janet987]

Seabourn updated their Health Advisory Sunday, and again yesterday.  https://www.seabourn.com/en_US/news.html
 

Any individual who has traveled from or through mainland China, Macau, or Hong Kong within 14 days of the start of their cruise, (including transit through their airports), will not be permitted to board the ship.

February 10, 2020

For Seabourn Sojourn in Asia, in light of new restrictions throughout the region on travelers coming from or traveling through Hong Kong, the ship will no longer call in Hong Kong on April 3, 2020. Itinerary revisions are currently being confirmed and details of the revised itineraries will be communicated to guests and travel advisors as soon as possible.

[frantic36]

Thanks for the update Janet. Since we will be on Sojourn I was curious if there would be any changes. 

 

Julie

[Paulchili]

28 minutes ago, rols said:

Most countries are still not banning HKers,

Well, Seabourn is (as noted above by Janet). Seabourn specifically indicated that if you even as much as transited in HKG less than 14 days prior to your sailing, you will not be allowed to board the ship - and this is in Sydney.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Paulchili

[teamflames]

39 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

I have an upcoming cruise on QM2 in March and another on Sojourn end of April and obviously you don't appreciate my comments but thanks for your assumptions just because I hadn't mentioned them before.

 

Julie

Don’t remember quoting you? Each cruise line on cc has a similar thread to this one and there are a lot of posters with strong opinions who admit they don’t have an upcoming cruise.

[teamflames]

40 minutes ago, rols said:

Not sure that collecting passengers in HK 10 days ago was that dreadful a decision. Even now there are very, very few (known) cases in HK and the chances of anyone picking up the virus before boarding was somewhere between indescribably and infinitesimally low. Most countries are still not banning HKers, some are still accepting flights from Beijing and this is 10 days later.

 

The poor people on the ship quarantined in Japan had the massive misfortune to have someone from Wuhan on the ship, I'm assuming HAL knows they didn't have such a passenger.

 

I'll assume they are being honest, they have been temperature monitoring and nobody has become sick. With latest research suggesting the median incubation period is 3 days (not peer-reviewed data as yet I agree), that ship is very likely infection-free.

 

... edit ... 

 

just to be clear. At this point I would think twice about getting on a cruise ship in Asia and possibly anywhere and if I had a booking I could cancel without much penalty I would do so. I do think the risk of catching the virus on a ship or actually anywhere outside Hubei is low, I think the passengers in Japan were insanely unlucky, but I'd avoid any risk if I economically could. We live in Singapore so we're in the country with the most cases outside China. Have we modified our behaviour, yes we have; are we living in desperate dread, we are not. We went out last night and had a lovely meal at a sadly empty restaurant but we're also driving more than taking public transport and being extra fastidious about cleanliness. 

 

I don't think Seabourn or any cruise line for that matter has done a great job getting ahead of this, I also do think that they know risks are low (although stakes are high) and shuffling the ship elsewhere may just land them in the middle of next week's outbreak. 

 

I added this edit because I know there are posters who are concerned people are glossing over the threat, I'm not trying to do that, I'm trying to be careful but realistic and I apologise to anyone who thinks my take lacks the correct balance. 

 

 

Sounds like we have similar views on being cautious choice to cancel is obviously very personal and dependant on circumstances. Dw and I have stated that if circumstances in April were similar to what they are now we would cancel irrelevant of refund policies.

We used to live in Singapore and spent 4 years in HK (we moved there at the tail end of SARS). Love both cities.

As to Hal , I was not giving an opinion as to whether their decisions were fair or not simply pointing out that it has caused much debate amongst their followers on this site and others (just check the latest comments under their announcement on fb). They did change their time in HK from an overnight to day only which was curious. I was hypothesising as to why they are being rejected by various countries. Ie is it fear follow the leader (Japan banned), is it concern over the HK embarkation, rumours as to a passenger onboard, combination of all?

[frantic36]

18 minutes ago, teamflames said:

Don’t remember quoting you? Each cruise line on cc has a similar thread to this one and there are a lot of posters with strong opinions who admit they don’t have an upcoming cruise.

 

I responded because your comment was general and not specific. I just wanted to correct that not all, especially when this thread started a few days ago, didn't have skin in the game. I think the term "cheap seats" was especially frustrating.

 

Julie

[teamflames]

11 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

 

I responded because your comment was general and not specific. I just wanted to correct that not all, especially when this thread started a few days ago, didn't have skin in the game. I think the term "cheap seats" was especially frustrating.

 

Julie

I don’t understand why you would take offence given you are not in the “cheap seats”? I thought I was clear that I was referring in general terms to many posters on this site and others who have strong opinions on the risks to taking a cruise at the moment who don’t in fact have to make such a decision.

I am very interested in hearing the differing views of those who are making such a decision or those who have  experience in the medical/logistical fields. I certainly have never judged anyone who is taking a current or upcoming cruise and who feels comfortable doing so even though that is a view contrary to mine.

 

[frantic36]

Because I don't base my judgement of people on how much money they are spending. I think of it as proportional.

 

Teamflames i agree this is a fluid situation and we all can have an opinion. I hope they find a vaccination soon so those poor people wandering in limbo can get back to normal.

 

Julie

Edited February 11, 2020 by frantic36

[teamflames]

1 hour ago, rols said:

cv

 

The poor people on the ship quarantined in Japan had the massive misfortune to have someone from Wuhan on the ship, I'm assuming HAL knows they didn't have such a passengerI

 

 

Btw, my impression was the passenger was a HK citizen who has done a day trip to the border (Shenzhen implied)? I did not read anything about a passenger from Wuhan. That is why I think it is concerning that one passenger has led to 135 cases so far

[teamflames]

3 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

Because I don't base my judgement of people on how much money they are spending. I think of it as proportional.

You have me utterly confused, “the cheap seats” does not refer to how much people spent it simply refers to those who are not undertaking a cruise (on any line or at any price) in the near term in the Asian region. Ie someone who may be affected (medically or logistically) by the current corona-virus situation.

You are determined though to take offence at something that was not directed at you and attempt to creat outrage - feel free to continue, my views will remain unchanged.

[frantic36]

Okay. I accept that you don't understand my comment and nothing I say will help. Enjoy your day, in fact your week.

 

Julie

[teamflames]

Just now, frantic36 said:

Okay. I accept that you don't understand my comment and nothing I say will help. Enjoy your day, in fact your week.

 

Julie

I believe I am the one being misunderstood.

If you want to hear strong opinions on whether people should take cruises in the near term in the Asian region even though they themselves do not have to make such a decision, that is your choice. I personally would prefer to here from people such as yourself who have “skin in the game”. It is easy to be judgemental on others choices (again I am referring to those who don’t have the quandary of whether to continue with their holiday plans) when they are not faced with the same difficult and unprecedented circumstances.

Have a great week yourself and good luck with your upcoming cruises should you continue to take them.

regards

James

[teamflames]

Just to add, I did not judge anyone on how much money they are spending! That is a misrepresentation by you and a nasty slur.

[frantic36]

1 minute ago, teamflames said:

I believe I am the one being misunderstood.

 

 

Quite possibly James, I haven't had the best day.🤔

 

I truly hope this settles soon. As a retired nurse I am fascinated to read of how they are growing the virus and attempting to find the correct treatment. As dangerous as that sounds.

 

Julie

[SLSD]

2 hours ago, rols said:

. At this point I would think twice about getting on a cruise ship in Asia and possibly anywhere and if I had a booking I could cancel without much penalty I would do so. I do think the risk of catching the virus on a ship or actually anywhere outside Hubei is low, I think the passengers in Japan were insanely unlucky, but I'd avoid any risk if I economically could. 

 

I don't think Seabourn or any cruise line for that matter has done a great job getting ahead of this, I also do think that they know risks are low (although stakes are high) and shuffling the ship elsewhere may just land them in the middle of next week's outbreak. 

 

I added this edit because I know there are posters who are concerned people are glossing over the threat, I'm not trying to do that, I'm trying to be careful but realistic and I apologise to anyone who thinks my take lacks the correct balance. 

 

 

Rols, I do think you have taken the right tone and your comments have been very balanced. .  My comments above were not about you, but rather (mostly)  about a travel agent on another site  who was discounting the concerns of others.  I think the biggest issue is that there are unknowns AND high stakes.  Not a great combination.  I hope you remain well in Singapore.  It sounds like you are taking reasonable precautions.  

 

I am one of those people who, while not an alarmist (I don't think), I do have the kind of DNA that excludes risk taking.  My husband who is a bit more adventurous than I am, is reluctant to book any cruise anywhere  until he sees how this epidemic will play out.  My main concern is for those on ships in  Asia right now and those trying to decide whether they should cancel trips.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by SLSD

[Flamin_June]

Well, we have skin in the game - we fly to Singapore on 8th March to board Ovation on 14th. I think some comparison with seasonal flu  incidence and annual death toll is valid, as it puts the figures for ncoronavirus into perspective. Fortunately we have had annual flu jabs and pneumonia vacs, so are protected against the most prevalent influenza variants. Nonetheless, there are other 'flu variants as well as various versions of the common cold and other 'flu like nasties out there that we have to depend on our immune systems to deal with without vacination boosters. Looking at those numbers, the risk of catching ncoronavirus in HK or elsewhere is relatively low, and there is probably a greater chance of catching a common cold or some other virus.

It is a different scenario on a ship, of course, and I have been on cruises where one or two irresponsible people haven't self isolated when down with a cold or other mild chest infection and before long others are going down with the same thing.

 

Having read the outstanding coverage of the ncoronavirus outbreak in Singapore in the Straits Times on a day to day basis ( and by the way their coverage, factual, objective, detailed, helpful and non-sensational) puts much of what is being published in UK papers to shame), I feel confident, at the moment I should add, that visiting Singapore will be as safe as ever. Their contact tracking, reporting, and isolation efforts have been phenomenal ( OK it is a small place only 5.6 million inhabitants), and as long as new cases outside of the c.980 contactees in isolation do not spiral upwards we won't be worried. Although  there will obviously be a small shadow of concern, and I suspect frequently seeing people in face nasks, and dining in near empty restaurants will not be quite the experience we had hoped for.

As for the ship and crew, there are two more 14 day itineraries before we board. Despite the uncertainty over the incubation period, if no one from those two and the current cruises presents with symptoms between now and boarding  we should be OK.

Of course, there are also concerns about how well the outbreak isbeing contained in Thailand and Myanmar, where we will be calling. The absence of any reported cases from Myanmar actually worries me, as it is so against regional trends as to be unbelieveable. However, I haven't researched the situation in Myanmar yet, so what do I know.

Currently we are set to go. Canceling now would likely be very costly. Like I said elsewhere, we have to wait and see if Seabourn blinks. If Singapore, Thailand and elsewhere in the region starts to go out of control then I expect Seabourn will cancel.

If not, I am trying to be optimistic and and am warming to the possibility that as people start to cancel there will only be 50 guests on board when we set sail. The service should be phenomenal, and my concerns about an overcrowded pool area will evaporate.

Of course the nightmare scenario is that SB cancel the cruise while we are on our flight or in the few days before we board.

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Flamin_June

[oceanviewer21]

We are booked on the same cruise on the 14th but will now almost certainly cancel as my wife has asthma and it it is mostly those with underlining health problems that suffer most from this virus. I will really miss this holiday if we do cancel, especially the empty ship . Would love to hear how you get along if you go.

[westmount]

We are getting on the Sojourn tomorrow here in CapeTown with only worries about what lies ahead on our way to Singapore. I gather everyone will be check out thoroughly, and presume the first person who puts his fork into the salad bar will be tossed overboard, but for those with skin in the game, the only thing to do is have a good time while being very careful to wash  hands and do what we should do every day in any case. 
as one learns when asking the question, 50 million North Americans get the flu and thousands die every year. This is more about fear of the unknown than medical science, so for those about to get on a plane or ship, be careful, but not crazed, and for those not on a cruise but offering advice, thanks but no thanks 

 

[Westiesheepie]

We are leaving today for Singapore to board the Ovation on Feb 15 for the revised sailing calling in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. For those of you conflicted about cancelling your upcoming cruise even at the risk of losing a lot of money, I would advise you to wait until a week prior to your sailing. If there are any concerns Seabourn will do the right thing. They offered us last wednesday a 100% credit towards a future cruise if we cancel or 50% credit for future cruise and $500 onboard credit per cabin if we proceed.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Westiesheepie