Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[rabidstoat]

If you get sick and report to the ship's medical center, in addition to being quarantined wouldn't you also be charged several hundred dollars for the medical visit? The two combined might both be contributors on whether or not people report when sick.

Edited February 12, 2020 by rabidstoat

[Colo Cruiser]

3 minutes ago, rabidstoat said:

If you get sick and report to the ship's medical center, in addition to being quarantined wouldn't you also be charged several hundred dollars for the medical visit? The two combined might both be determinations on whether or not people report when sick.

In most cases yes.

[kathy49]

8 minutes ago, Jmulks said:

This whole quarantine smells like a massive class action lawsuit, I’m willing to bet in time they will be able to prove negligent behavior on behalf of Japan and the cruise line. They should have immediately brought everyone off the ship and into a more secure quarantine facility. 

could not agree with you more!

[rabidstoat]

Just now, Colo Cruiser said:

In most cases yes.

 

Though medical travel insurance I assume would reimburse. Still, might influence some people, at least in a 'normal' norovirus situation. Pretty sure given the severity of things here, everyone will be faithfully reporting if they get a fever.

[Aus Traveller]

21 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Thirty-nine more passengers on the Diamond Princess cruise ship and one quarantine officer have tested positive for the new coronavirus, health minister Katsunobu Kato said Wednesday morning. He added that: “At this point, we have confirmed that four people, among those who are hospitalized, are in a serious condition, either on a ventilator or in an intensive care unit.”

 

It is very worrying that four people are seriously ill. Our thoughts and prayers go out to them.

[Aus Traveller]

6 minutes ago, rabidstoat said:

If you get sick and report to the ship's medical center, in addition to being quarantined wouldn't you also be charged several hundred dollars for the medical visit? The two combined might both be contributors on whether or not people report when sick.

I imagine you are referring to the Noro cases that have been discussed. I can see the point about a charge for visiting the medical centre might discourage someone from reporting the illness, but if someone believes they have Noro, at least they should self-quarantine themselves in their cabin for 48 hours. I think we all know that is the protocol, but these people didn't go to the medical centre because they didn't want to be confined to their cabin.

[khewston]

I just saw news on my local station.  They had video of a woman and her husband in an inside stateroom.  She said her husband got sick with a 103 degree temp a couple of days ago.  They have let the cruise line know but so far no one has come to check him.

[SunNFunCruzer]

20 minutes ago, Jmulks said:

This whole quarantine smells like a massive class action lawsuit, I’m willing to bet in time they will be able to prove negligent behavior on behalf of Japan and the cruise line. They should have immediately brought everyone off the ship and into a more secure quarantine facility. 

 

I doubt it.  This is "national emergency" territory.  And they were in Japan. And the ship is not US Flagged.  I believe those in charge made the best decision they could with the limited information available.  If this did go to trial, with what is known right now, I would ask for a dismissal and, if that failed, a directed verdict.     

Edited February 12, 2020 by SunNFunCruzer

[bluesea321]

1 minute ago, rabidstoat said:

Though medical travel insurance I assume would reimburse. Still, might influence some people, at least in a 'normal' norovirus situation. Pretty sure given the severity of things here, everyone will be faithfully reporting if they get a fever.

 

A study in China of approximately 1,000 persons confirmed with coronavirus and admitted to the hospital showed that only 40% had fever on admission, the other 60% had other initial symptoms like cough. So testing for fever is not an absolute criteria. Attached is the 30 page study if anyone wants to read it for themselves. It was done under the auspices of China's lead coronavirus investigator.

 

 

Coronavirus Study.pdf

[cruiserchuck]

20 minutes ago, Jmulks said:

This whole quarantine smells like a massive class action lawsuit, I’m willing to bet in time they will be able to prove negligent behavior on behalf of Japan and the cruise line. They should have immediately brought everyone off the ship and into a more secure quarantine facility. 

 

Princess Cruises' Passage Contract provides that you cannot file a class action against them:

 

(C) WAIVER OF CLASS ACTION: THIS PASSAGE CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR THE EXCLUSIVE RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES THROUGH INDIVIDUAL LEGAL ACTION ON YOUR OWN BEHALF INSTEAD OF THROUGH ANY CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION. EVEN IF THE APPLICABLE LAW PROVIDES OTHERWISE, YOU AGREE THAT ANY ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT AGAINST CARRIER WHATSOEVER SHALL BE LITIGATED BY YOU INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF ANY CLASS OR AS PART OF A CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION, AND YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE TO WAIVE ANY LAW ENTITLING YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION. IF YOUR CLAIM IS SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION UNDER SECTION 16(B)(ii) ABOVE, THE ARBITRATOR SHALL HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO ARBITRATE C/LAIMS ON A CLASS ACTION BASIS. YOU AGREE THAT THIS CLASS ACTION WAIVER SHALL NOT BE SEVERABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FROM THE ARBITRATION CLAUSE SET FORTH IN SECTION 16(B)(ii) ABOVE, AND IF FOR ANY REASON THIS CLASS ACTION WAIVER IS UNENFORCEABLE AS TO ANY PARTICULAR CLAIM, THEN AND ONLY THEN SUCH CLAIM SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION."

 

I also seriously doubt you could file a class action against the Country of Japan for any reason, much less for how they handled the quarantine.

[kent9xxx1]

Where are the people who said after quarantine it would not spread anymore?  If you just think for a second for yourself, you know it is not going to end well.  Trust the WHO and Japanese health ministry?  How can people be that naive?  So sad!  

[kent9xxx1]

The rest of the ship will get it if the quarantine continues on the ship.  It is only  a matter of time. 

[SunNFunCruzer]

12 minutes ago, rabidstoat said:

 

Though medical travel insurance I assume would reimburse. Still, might influence some people, at least in a 'normal' norovirus situation. Pretty sure given the severity of things here, everyone will be faithfully reporting if they get a fever.

 

IMO ALL Cruiselines now have a duty and responsibility to add Warning Signs and give passengers information about the risk of CoronaVirus before boarding AND telling them to report fevers and illness to medical.

 

I think they should waive charges for these types of medical visits to encourage reporting. 

 

I know it seems unbelievable but some old people don't watch TV and only read books and newspapers.  Since many newspapers are moving to online only, they read books and may not know about this Virus.

[Pushka]

38 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Japan confirms 40 new coronavirus cases linked to cruise ship quarantined off Yokohama

Thirty-nine more passengers on the Diamond Princess cruise ship and one quarantine officer have tested positive for the new coronavirus, health minister Katsunobu Kato said Wednesday morning. The new cases bring the total linked to the ship to 175. “Out of 53 new test results, 39 people were found positive,” he told reporters, referring to the figure for passengers. He added that: “At this point, we have confirmed that four people, among those who are hospitalized, are in a serious condition, either on a ventilator or in an intensive care unit.”

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/12/national/science-health/40-new-coronavirus-cases-cruise-ship-quarantined-japan/#.XkNKmBNKjPA

There needs to a "sad face" icon to respond to such posts. Best wishes to everyone onboard. The deomgraphics of the seriously ill people may determine who is at most risk from developing complications as age and comobidities seem to be important.

[Jmulks]

8 minutes ago, cruiserchuck said:

 

Princess Cruises' Passage Contract provides that you cannot file a class action against them:

 

(C) WAIVER OF CLASS ACTION: THIS PASSAGE CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR THE EXCLUSIVE RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES THROUGH INDIVIDUAL LEGAL ACTION ON YOUR OWN BEHALF INSTEAD OF THROUGH ANY CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION. EVEN IF THE APPLICABLE LAW PROVIDES OTHERWISE, YOU AGREE THAT ANY ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT AGAINST CARRIER WHATSOEVER SHALL BE LITIGATED BY YOU INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF ANY CLASS OR AS PART OF A CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION, AND YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE TO WAIVE ANY LAW ENTITLING YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION. IF YOUR CLAIM IS SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION UNDER SECTION 16(B)(ii) ABOVE, THE ARBITRATOR SHALL HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO ARBITRATE C/LAIMS ON A CLASS ACTION BASIS. YOU AGREE THAT THIS CLASS ACTION WAIVER SHALL NOT BE SEVERABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FROM THE ARBITRATION CLAUSE SET FORTH IN SECTION 16(B)(ii) ABOVE, AND IF FOR ANY REASON THIS CLASS ACTION WAIVER IS UNENFORCEABLE AS TO ANY PARTICULAR CLAIM, THEN AND ONLY THEN SUCH CLAIM SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ARBITRATION."

 

I also seriously doubt you could file a class action against the Country of Japan for any reason, much less for how they handled the quarantine.

Say what you will, but I’ve been in court enough times to see contacts like that thrown out by a Judge. Families of 911 victims are being allowed to sue the kingdom of Saudi Arabia so the precedent has been set. Hopefully I’m wrong and there was no sickness or death caused by the cruise lines handling of the situation. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Jmulks

[Aus Traveller]

2 minutes ago, kent9xxx1 said:

The rest of the ship will get it if the quarantine continues on the ship.  It is only  a matter of time. 

You have stated this opinion several times, and you are entitled to it. But that is what it is - opinion and you should word it as such. It isn't a fact and many people disagree with you including the people managing this emergency. Yes - I know you don't agree with them, and once more, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

We will see next week if you are correct in your statement that everyone on the ship contracts the virus. 

[barbaraanne]

2 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

Huh? I thought you only had 7 or 8 more days to make your decision. And just last night you were on the fence. Today's been nothing but bad news. How did you make a final decision that you "can't wait to get onboard on Feb 22?"

 

I hope you have a great cruise, I am just really confused because I have been watching your posts and trying to use your logic, decision and cruise to inform mine and mine's on 3/15.

Everyone needs to make their own personal decisions.  Mine are being influenced by my own health issues that are only going to get worse over time that I haven’t talked about.   Last night I thought I’d be crazy to go, but after settling my own fears based on what the CDC and WHO is saying, I realized that I’d be making a decision based predominantly on fear.  For me, that is foolish, for you it might be more rational.  My health condition is not going to improve over time, only worsen, so what am I waiting for?  There is no proof that waiting until warmer weather in the northern hemisphere might improve things.  It may only just get worse for an unknown period of time.  I am going to stop questioning the CDC and WHO and get on that ship.  This may likely be my last chance to do so.

[bluesea321]

Japanese official infected after surveying passengers aboard cruise ship

 

The coronavirus has jumped from ship to shore, Japan’s health ministry said Wednesday...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-coronavirus&variant=show&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu#link-63acf635

READ MORE Quarantined passengers have a lot of questions. Japan has few answers.

[ilikeanswers]

59 minutes ago, Jmulks said:

This whole quarantine smells like a massive class action lawsuit, I’m willing to bet in time they will be able to prove negligent behavior on behalf of Japan and the cruise line. They should have immediately brought everyone off the ship and into a more secure quarantine facility. 

 

Getting a lawsuit in Japan is next to impossible. A Japanese town who proved a company was dumping mercury in their bay still didn't have a right to sue for damages. The Japan court system is extremely beauracratic, you would have to work at it for decades to get anything from them. I think most passengers would rather move on with their lives then be intangled in some decade long legal battle. On top of that the legal is always biased to the Japanese side so any foreigner who does manage to get a lawsuit started is unlikely to win.

Edited February 12, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[bluesea321]

Very interesting article from the NYT with lots of details:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/world/asia/japan-coronavirus-diamond-princess.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

 

Experts in crisis management said the government was offering a textbook example of how not to handle a public health crisis. With 174 of their number known to be infected — the most cases anywhere outside China — one of the biggest questions for those stuck on the Diamond Princess off Yokohama is: Why won’t Japan test everyone on board for the virus? As of Tuesday, only 439 had been tested.

[bluesea321]

1 minute ago, Aus Traveller said:

It is not a 'fact' that passengers are getting infected after the quarantine. It is not known, and I feel it is unlikely. I state my opinions as 'opinions'. The only person known to have got infected after the quarantine is the quarantine officer who presumably was testing people who were already isolated in their cabins. So far, there is no proof, or any indication that there is infection from passengers isolated in one cabin to those in another - which is what you are implying.

 

The original passenger 0 who started this tragedy left the ship in Hong Kong 17 days ago, well past the so called 14 incubation period. The new infections have to be from pax to pax if the 14 days is correct.

[Viv0828]

25 minutes ago, barbaraanne said:

 I am going to stop questioning the CDC and WHO and get on that ship.  This may likely be my last chance to do so.

 

go for it. i looked and i think your cruise starts and stops in the usa - safest option. enjoy it!

[Aus Traveller]

I am surprised and dismayed at the nastiness that is displayed in some of the posts. We are all adults so should be able to discuss this matter that worries and concerns us, politely.

 

I am also surprised at the suggestion that people should sue. Is that the first response? Surely the health and well-being of everyone on board the Diamond Princess, and also in the world in general, are more important than thinking of suing.

[alirat153]

1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Passenger 0, the initially infected passenger, left the ship in Hong Kong on Jan 25. It has been 17 days, well past the so called 14 day incubation period. If 14 days is accurate (reports now say up to 24 days) then the new infections were new passenger to passenger infections on the ship and not from the original pax.

Ok lets say passenger  0 was infectious the whole 5 days he was on board, the incubation time is variable so hard to say with certainty, but say he infected 20 people in that 5 days to the 25th January. Then say the virus becomes contagious before symptoms show, those 20 people then go on to infect people up to the time of the start of quarantine on 3rd Feb.  The people they infect also have time to infect people before the quarantine kicks in. The spread is exponential.  As the incubation period is between 5-14 days (although now they are thinking it may be longer) those infections won't show up immediately.

 

All I am saying is that it may be jumping to conclusions to say that the virus is spreading after the quarantine started.  Do we have any mathematicians out there that can rustle up a model? 

 

The disease takes days to become serious (around 9?) if its going to get serious, the other patients begin to recover, but if the figures are right it looks like a 3 week illness before the all clear. I am gathering this from the charts of infections/deaths/recoveries.  Outside of China it does appear the mortality rates are a lot lower. Possibly because the sheer volume of cases means patients aren't getting the necessary treatment in the serious stages.

 

In summary, I don't think the additional cases mean that the infection is spreading post quarantine. Medical staff are at a particular risk as they are on the coalface, as are the crew. I think the crew should be being monitored very closely.

[rsato]

6 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I am surprised and dismayed at the nastiness that is displayed in some of the posts. We are all adults so should be able to discuss this matter that worries and concerns us, politely.

 

I am also surprised at the suggestion that people should sue. Is that the first response? Surely the health and well-being of everyone on board the Diamond Princess, and also in the world in general, are more important than thinking of suing.

 I would also think threatening lawsuits against countries making great efforts to help sick passengers will only make the Westerdam's indefinite journey longer...