Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[hal2008]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The various national governments negotiated with Japan to remove their nationals, and to pay for the continued quarantine to get those people from the ship to the airplane.  Do you think Princess has the same clout with the Japanese government?  And, what difference would a hotel over the ship make?  You're just changing the quarantine boundary, and enlarging the risk factors by having a quarantine in a place where people can more easily get out of the quarantine boundary.

 

A different facility that is not called a petri-dish

[hal2008]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, paid vacation is whatever is agreed upon in your collective bargaining agreement, since nearly all crew are union.  And, since the cruise ship crew get not one penny of money when "on vacation", then a couple of months pay is a bonus.  They are continuing to be paid while on the ship, even after the last passenger leaves, until they are released from quarantine and allowed off the ship.

 

You will certainly know more than most of us because of your background.

 

So curiosity questions:

 

Are there unions for crew on Princess ships?

If that is the case, for exactly same position, your pay should not differ based on your nationality, correct?

 

[bluesea321]

Looks like Dr. Iwata's video has done some good.

 

"At a news conference, Kono admitted that the Defense Ministry applied the standards — which are higher than those in use by health ministry officials working on the vessel — after viewing a video from the ship posted by Dr. Kentaro Iwata of Kobe University Hospital, who joined the disaster-relief team as a veteran infectious disease specialist."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/21/national/sdf-protection-diamond-princess-princess-video/#.XlABxBNKjPA

[Colo Cruiser]

3 hours ago, fragilek said:

 where is she from

Why does that matter?

[Colo Cruiser]

1 hour ago, hal2008 said:

 

SItuation of exploited amd mistreated crew is pretty bad.

Just google to hear pleas in their own words.

 

Highly educated, wealthy pax were frustrated and scared in Japan.

Think about situation of a lowly crew member along in hospital in Japan with no connectivity to the outside world.

 

58 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

Be careful.

Being sympathetic to crew is not been taken kindly on this board.

Princess has offered two months of contractual minimum base pay and contractually guaranteed minimum gratuity (this is NOT same as what typical crew receive per week actually in usual course)

We have seen some posters expecting crew to be "grateful" for "generosity" shown by Princess!!!

 

Even though Japaneese authority was in charge of the quarrantine, Princess was involved in many decisions.

 

There were and are plenty of things Princess could have arranged very easily:

- Arrange for food delivery from outside which they eventually did after so many crew members were sickened working 16+ hours in dangerous condiitons

- Arrange for isolated sleeping on ship (there were plenty of unused spaces on the ship to put up one person tents)

- Let crew communicate with their family freely/frequently

- Arrange for couseling from home country

- Given the cirmcumstances, "battle-pay" for horrible workintg condition could certainly be more than the two months worth of contractual minimum 

 

Once can wonder what is more reprenensible though - action/inaction of Princess or posts in defense of Princess against poor crew members

 

 

Are you onboard?   Really sounds like you have an ax to grind. 

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

You will certainly know more than most of us because of your background.

 

So curiosity questions:

 

Are there unions for crew on Princess ships?

If that is the case, for exactly same position, your pay should not differ based on your nationality, correct?

 

Yes, there are unions for crew, though in the traditional sense of unions they are more employment agencies than unions, but the workers agree to be represented by this agency.  And, no, each nation's crew are represented by a national union, so each is entitled to negotiate a separate agreement with the cruise line.

 

And, as for the minimum wage, the guaranteed minimum wage is based on a 40 hour work week, the "normal" pay is based on a 70-80 hour work week, those additional hours being considered as "overtime".  When you get paid vacation, does it include overtime?

15 minutes ago, Viv0828 said:

 

i'll bet those collective bargainers never thought of a situation like this - i certainly would not have. i don't think there is anything in their agreement preventing princess from doing more than what was agreed upon. 

Princess is doing more than they are required to do.  Normally, when a crew member signs off the ship at the end of contract, that is the end of their pay until they sign back on a ship.  Princess, contractually, owes them nothing, since that is the amount of "paid vacation" they are entitled to.  So, these folks are getting two months pay over and above what any other Princess crew gets.

[fragilek]

5 minutes ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Why does that matter?

 just wondered if she risked getting self quarantined if any more passengers change from -ve to +ve.  Some countries are being much stricter than others that's all.

 

This must be a nightmare for all involved and I actually feel sorry for them

[JennAngel9]

Haven't read this whole article yet https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/21/coronavirus-americans-limbo-post-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-quarantine/4818075002/ (it's free!) but this part was shocking: 

"Most of the Americans chose to take the flight. But at the last minute, 14 of those 382 passengers tested positive for coronavirus. Rather than sending them to quarantine, officials split them up and put seven of the passengers on each plane."

I feel like arguments can be made about if it was legally necessary to take them...but the split them up and put them on each plane? 😮 I feel like this is almost as bad as letting people walk freely off the ship.

[Taseko]

SHOES.  No one talks about the possible role of footwear in transmission.  It doesn’t take much to think through tying up your runners and pounding the deck for an hour, keeping the required distance.  What is the chance droplets could fall and contaminate your shoes?  Return to the cabin. When and where do you dispose of the gloves?  Do you remove shoes outside the door before removing the gloves or walk into the cabin and untie your laces with bare hands? 
 

[Viv0828]

26 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

ormally, when a crew member signs off the ship at the end of contract, that is the end of their pay until they sign back on a ship.  Princess, contractually, owes them nothing, since that is the amount of "paid vacation" they are entitled to.  So, these folks are getting two months pay over and above what any other Princess crew gets.

wow. The generosity of some of the folks here is underwhelming. The crew spends several weeks doing biohazard duty (probably not even mentioned in their contract) so send them home with an extra few hundred bucks and all is done. 

[phil the brit]

1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

Looks like Dr. Iwata's video has done some good.

 

"At a news conference, Kono admitted that the Defense Ministry applied the standards — which are higher than those in use by health ministry officials working on the vessel — after viewing a video from the ship posted by Dr. Kentaro Iwata of Kobe University Hospital, who joined the disaster-relief team as a veteran infectious disease specialist."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/21/national/sdf-protection-diamond-princess-princess-video/#.XlABxBNKjPA

 

 

No, another link that cannot be opened, can people stop doing this with paid for only links .............please??

[Willbrise123]

5 minutes ago, phil the brit said:

 

 

No, another link that cannot be opened, can people stop doing this with paid for only links .............please??

If interested (which you clearly are), why not pay?  If not, scroll past - its unfortunate that paywalls exist, but there are some folks who do subscribe and the links are helpful.  

[bluesea321]

5 minutes ago, phil the brit said:

Another link that cannot be opened, can people stop doing this with paid for only links .............please??

 

The CC guidelines do not allow anyone to post more than a brief summary of the article and rightfully so. You can read the brief summary or ignore the post as you wish.

[villauk]

7 minutes ago, phil the brit said:

 

 

No, another link that cannot be opened, can people stop doing this with paid for only links .............please??

 

 

I can open it - no money required.

[bluesea321]

Here is another change of policy, in my opinion for the better. A brief summary again:

 

"The ministry said over 100 passengers who had close contact with those infected will also disembark and move to a government-provided facility, scrapping the original plan to make them stay another 14 days."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/21/national/hokkaido-coronavirus/#.XlAjFRNKjPA

[fragilek]

13 minutes ago, phil the brit said:

 

 

No, another link that cannot be opened, can people stop doing this with paid for only links .............please??

 try a different browser I can open free

[phil the brit]

6 minutes ago, Willbrise123 said:

If interested (which you clearly are), why not pay?  If not, scroll past - its unfortunate that paywalls exist, but there are some folks who do subscribe and the links are helpful.  

 

I really don't want to subscribe to the Japanese Times or the Singapore Gazette or the Hong Kong News, three journals I will probably never want to view again after a week has gone by.

[phil the brit]

7 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

 

I can open it - no money required.

 

It opens for me for 3 seconds then says pay........ and the article goes.

[phil the brit]

3 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 try a different browser I can open free

 

Thanks, i'll do that.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

2 hours ago, Kelownabccan said:

Princess Crew.....one would hope that Princess is not going to transfer the crew all over the fleet without some thought to the rest of the crew/staff and passengers all over the world.....what kind of testing is going on for them and quarantine.....?????.....all seems really quiet on this topic.....we are on a Princess ship in a month or so and would wish that crew and staff on that ship would not be sent to from the Diamond if not gone through a "quarantine" period....it would be nice to see some sort of "press" release from Princess on the topic.....????  or am I being to realistic???

 

I wouldn't trust Princess or the Japanese bureaucrats to put them through proper quarantine on or off that ship.  Who knows if they would eat regularly, not having themselves to depend on for some of these duties.  Ultimately I think they would be in better hands going home, if their home countries would take them in, and properly isolate them.  I don't blame the crew for being frightened.

[Farts]

1 hour ago, Taseko said:

SHOES.  No one talks about the possible role of footwear in transmission.  It doesn’t take much to think through tying up your runners and pounding the deck for an hour, keeping the required distance.  What is the chance droplets could fall and contaminate your shoes?  Return to the cabin. When and where do you dispose of the gloves?  Do you remove shoes outside the door before removing the gloves or walk into the cabin and untie your laces with bare hands? 
 

There are rumors that it could be transferred fecal-oral route. So your shoe idea isn't 100% far fetched. 

 

There are little booty covers for your feet. but idk if  it was used on the dp

[bluesea321]

2 minutes ago, Farts said:

There are rumors that it could be transferred fecal-oral route. So your shoe idea isn't 100% far fetched. 

There are little booty covers for your feet. but idk if  it was used on the dp

 

For whatever it is worth the pictures I have seen do not show the crew with boot or shoe covers.

[conwakr]

The crew generally is younger and for the most part healthy so may be not displaying symptoms while because of the timing and length of this cruise the passengers probably were older so perhaps more health compromised.  Once all the passengers are off it would be interesting to know the actual crew statistics in terms of the virus.  Perhaps they are testing all of them also..but I'm thinking probably not. 

[MMDown Under]

18 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

Two evacuees from Diamond Princess have been tested positive in Darwin.  They have been kept isolated.  The Chief Medical Officer said they were prepared for some positive tests.

ABC News

The Australian Government's decision to isolate passengers from Diamond Princess, in Darwin for 14 days, has been proved to be a wise one. 

An additional two evacuees from Diamond Princess have been tested positive with the virus in Darwin.  They are women from Queensland.  

[bluesea321]

A good detailed article (and free) describing the current US passenger situation:

 

"Lawrence Gostin, a professor of global health law at Georgetown University, said the inconsistent treatment of the Americans who were on the ship put them at greater risk and threatens to expose more people to infection. We’re trying to stop the spread of a novel, emerging disease that could turn into a global pandemic. We know how to do this. Yet Gostin, who's also director of the World Health Organization's center on public health law, said the response to the Diamond Princess crisis was virtually medieval. Gostin faults Princess Cruises for keeping the passengers on board a ship that was not designed to contain an infection. He faults the Japanese government for allowing passengers to disembark without a quarantine. And he said U.S. officials erred by putting the 14 Americans who tested positive on two evacuation planes with others who had tested negative. It was a comedy of errors, he said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/21/coronavirus-americans-limbo-post-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-quarantine/4818075002/