News on the Westerdam

[kazu]

12 minutes ago, Himself said:

This is what I  heard yesterday.  I ship will dock in Laen Chong Thailand  on March 13th.  The passengers will disembark but the Crew will stay on Board.  The ship will stay there Until March 28th. It will be only crew on the ship and the March 13th cruise will be cancelled.

 

I think you mean February not March. 😉 

NO, the ship is not docking there.  Thailand has refused them permission despite HAL getting it previously.  HAL has posted on their website, FB and there are posts here as well.

 

No one knows (and if HAL is smart they will keep it quiet since the social media caused Thailand to reverse it’s decision) where they will dock.  They did have another port according to HAL which was unnamed.

[dougypk]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

At least they will be able to refuel and resupply. Who knows where they will end up at this point.

 

My wild five cent guess is they'll wind up in Australia, unless one of the smaller closer countries volunteers.  Australia has the infrastructure to inspire confidence in it's citizens that they can handle the situation.  Also by then it'll be easy to spot which crew and passengers to test before debarking is allowed.

 

In the meantime, HAL is treating Thailand's "no" as a maybe.  🙂 

 

 

[SunNFunCruzer]

2 minutes ago, dougypk said:

 

My wild five cent guess is they'll wind up in Australia, unless one of the smaller closer countries volunteers.  Australia has the infrastructure to inspire confidence in it's citizens that they can handle the situation.  Also by then it'll be easy to spot which crew and passengers to test before debarking is allowed.

 

In the meantime, HAL is treating Thailand's "no" as a maybe.  🙂 

 

 

 

I posted my opinion below about the situation with Anthem of the Seas in Bayonne, NJ, so I would rule out Hawaii, even though there is no significant illness reported on Westerdam and I think the average age on Westie is probably significantly higher than on Anthem.  Americans are, afterall, American.

 

"I think THIS is one of the differences between what is happening on the Diamond Princess and what happened with the Anthem in Bayonne.  Not having a confirmed case mattered but I think geography also mattered.

 

I'd imagine a cruise out of Jersey has a lot of people from the tri-state area. This is not a population that is easy to control or that takes "No" for an answer.  Does anyone really think you wouldn't have people jumping from somewhere on deck/off a balcony in to the water to get off a quarantined ship in Jersey?  Could the army/national guard get there fast enough to prevent this? 

 

Not only are the passengers on the Diamond at risk of actually being sick and then needing the government or health care industry's help, but they are in Japan... jumping ship would be so much riskier than jumping in US Waters.  This does not mean that anyone would successfully escape from the Anthem, but I think this particular population would be almost impossible to fully control in Jersey (and American laws offer American's a lot of protections - look up habeas corpus).  So with low risk for illness and high risk for mayhem, I believe someone made the decision to roll the dice and release."

[BarbarianPaul]

1 hour ago, arabrab said:

I am.  The folks onboard the Westerdam are in no danger. They are seriously inconvenienced. Not every inconvenience is the US's responsibility to solve. (In contrast, the Americans who were stuck in Wuhan were in danger. It was appropriate that the US help to evacuate them.). 

 

There is nothing wrong with letting the flag country (Netherlands) or the country where Carnival chose to be incorporated work to solve this particular issue. 

Would you feel that way if you were onboard?

[1ANGELCAT]

48 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I understand and share your concern.  So far, I think we are ok for our April cruise but who knows what will evolve in the next while?  Hopefully people listen to WHO and it will be contained and die out.  Time will tell.

 

 

April is NOT a long ways off.  Triumph Guy is going around the same time as we are and it’s nearly just two months.  

 

With how things are developing it is worrisome.  Transatlantics are the first cruises to Europe so there is no past experience to go by.  So far, there are no coronavirus cases in the countries we are visiting but what if ships do become pariahs? 

We can only wait and watch and see how things go.  Definitely one should wait but I can understand Triumph Guy’s apprehension.

 

Jacqui, NS sails the same day as we do.

Right now I’m having a hard time getting enthusiastic about this voyage. 

Time will tell

[gatour]

1 hour ago, arabrab said:

I am.  The folks onboard the Westerdam are in no danger. They are seriously inconvenienced. Not every inconvenience is the US's responsibility to solve. (In contrast, the Americans who were stuck in Wuhan were in danger. It was appropriate that the US help to evacuate them.). 

 

There is nothing wrong with letting the flag country (Netherlands) or the country where Carnival chose to be incorporated work to solve this particular issue. 

Have you asked the 428 US citizens on board the ship whether they want the US Gov't involved, or their family members back here in the State this.

 

If you were on board the ship or had family members on board would your opinion change?

[LoraJ]

1 minute ago, gatour said:

Have you asked the 428 US citizens on board the ship whether they want the US Gov't involved, or their family members back here in the State this.

 

If you were on board the ship or had family members on board would your opinion change?

 

I am a family member and I want them involved if need be, for sure. Any ideas who I can contact on their behalf? 

[atexsix]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

I understand and share your concern.  So far, I think we are ok for our April cruise but who knows what will evolve in the next while?  Hopefully people listen to WHO and it will be contained and die out.  Time will tell.

 

 

April is NOT a long ways off.  Triumph Guy is going around the same time as we are and it’s nearly just two months.  

 

With how things are developing it is worrisome.  Transatlantics are the first cruises to Europe so there is no past experience to go by.  So far, there are no coronavirus cases in the countries we are visiting but what if ships do become pariahs? 

We can only wait and watch and see how things go.  Definitely one should wait but I can understand Triumph Guy’s apprehension.

 

I completely agree, we sail in 60 days, and while it's a closed loop out of Seattle, we are apprehensive about what awaits in the form of questionnaires, restrictions, and health checks.  Dear Dad is 82 years old, there is only so much pre-boarding process he can handle; the Seattle cruise terminal was awful on our last cruise, for one thing they lack seating until you get to the waiting area for some reason and that can be a long way off--we already experienced a long boarding process on a b2b out of Vancouver, it was chaos, the ship and HAL were of no use, they have little to do with terminal operations. 

 

But I digress, besides the sailing, many people have a lot of other expensive arrangements not necessarily covered by insurance such as limos, hotel stays, private tours (not us), and other reservations made months in advance.  April might be far away on a weekend trip someplace, but in cruise terms it's very close.

 

PS Our sailing is the first of Seattle's summer season, that means everything by the book on the part of terminal employees.

Edited February 12, 2020 by atexsix

[SunNFunCruzer]

34 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

Would you feel that way if you were onboard?

 

 

39 New Cases just reported on Diamond Princess in Japan bringing the total to 174.  😞

 

 

 

[arabrab]

13 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

Would you feel that way if you were onboard?

I hope so.  It is nice to be internally consistent. 😇

But really, the days when the US can/should be expected.to solve all the problems are over. There are plenty of Australians, Canadians and Japanese citizens on board as passengers. Why not advocacy for those countries (or the aforementioned flag or country of incorporation) to step up and deal with the issue?

[Just_Westy]

1 minute ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

 

39 New Cases just reported on Diamond Princess in Japan bringing the total to 174.  😞

 

 

 

 

Given the developments on the Diamond Princess I can't see anyone being allowed to disembark Westerdam until it's had a significant number of passengers tested for Covid-19.

[GeorgeCharlie]

I haven't noticed much comment regarding WHO's reported statement regarding the Westerdam.

 

The WHO said Thai officials have indicated that if the ship enters the country’s waters, “authorities may seek to board the ship to determine the health status of passengers and crew, to determine whether they would be allowed to eventually disembark in Thailand,” according to a statement.

 

 

[atexsix]

7 minutes ago, Just_Westy said:

 

Given the developments on the Diamond Princess I can't see anyone being allowed to disembark Westerdam until it's had a significant number of passengers tested for Covid-19.

The majority consensus seems to be leaning in that direction on Tuesday's news, course that can be completely different 24 hours from now, but how else can they convince the Thailand officials?  

Edited February 12, 2020 by atexsix

[Just_Westy]

2 minutes ago, atexsix said:

That seemed to be the majority consensus on all of Tuesday's news, course that can be completely different 24 hours from now, but how else can they convince the Thailand officials?  

 

Public pressure will be immense to not allow the passengers off unless tested and they have every right to be concerned. I also think that ALL cruise companies should cancel all Asian sailings for at least 30 days. 

 

This is a cruise companies worst nightmare unfolding so mitigating the risks now should be their main concern imho.

[3rdGenCunarder]

17 minutes ago, atexsix said:

I completely agree, we sail in 60 days, and while it's a closed loop out of Seattle, we are apprehensive about what awaits in the form of questionnaires, restrictions, and health checks.  Dear Dad is 82 years old, there is only so much pre-boarding process he can handle; the Seattle cruise terminal was awful on our last cruise, for one thing they lack seating until you get to the waiting area for some reason and that can be a long way off--we already experienced a long boarding process on a b2b out of Vancouver, it was chaos, the ship and HAL were of no use, they have little to do with terminal operations. 

 

But I digress, besides the sailing, many people have a lot of other expensive arrangements not necessarily covered by insurance such as limos, hotel stays, private tours (not us), and other reservations made months in advance.  April might be far away on a weekend trip someplace, but in cruise terms it's very close.

 

PS Our sailing is the first of Seattle's summer season, that means everything by the book on the part of terminal employees.

 

Sorry to go OT, but contact HAL to find out about wheelchair assistance in the terminal for your father. I know Seattle offers it. There were several people waiting in wheelchairs when we sailed from there.  If Dad says he doesn't need it, point out that the extra checks will make the wait too long. It's easier to fill out the questionnaire while you're sitting down. 

 

We're all going to be getting questionnaires. I'm curious to see what will be asked. Symptoms, of course. Questions about where you have been? Were you near someone sick, etc? 

[atexsix]

4 minutes ago, Just_Westy said:

 

Public pressure will be immense to not allow the passengers off unless tested and they have every right to be concerned. I also think that ALL cruise companies should cancel all Asian sailings for at least 30 days. 

 

This is a cruise companies worst nightmare unfolding so mitigating the risks now should be their main concern imho.

Agree.  I read the Asian market is about 10% of the world fleet this time of year, not sure how many ships that comes out to though.  I cannot imagine where they can all go but the timing might be good; they have 1 to 2 months to relocate the ships, scrub em down from floor to ceiling and finish just as the Caribbean season is winding down and Alaska/Europe starting up. 

[atexsix]

1 minute ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Sorry to go OT, but contact HAL to find out about wheelchair assistance in the terminal for your father. I know Seattle offers it. There were several people waiting in wheelchairs when we sailed from there.  If Dad says he doesn't need it, point out that the extra checks will make the wait too long. It's easier to fill out the questionnaire while you're sitting down. 

 

We're all going to be getting questionnaires. I'm curious to see what will be asked. Symptoms, of course. Questions about where you have been? Were you near someone sick, etc? 

I was thinking about that, or a walker of some type with a seat.  Thanks for the suggestions, much appreciated!

[Floridiana]

OT: Wheelchair users and their companions often get on a different faster line.

[arabrab]

We used a wheelchair line twice when cruising with MIL -- it was a godsend. One time it was distinctly faster, but it was especially important when it wasn't faster -- she didn't have the stamina to walk long distances or stand. It was always a bit of a struggle to get her to agree to using it, but I honestly think she would have crumpled without it.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, 1ANGELCAT said:

Jacqui, NS sails the same day as we do.

Right now I’m having a hard time getting enthusiastic about this voyage. 

Time will tell

 

I am still enthusiastic on this cruise and our land trip after but I am watching carefully.  I think we should be ok.  At least, I truly hope so. 🤞

 

On the other hand, I’ve stopped all my planning for my Japan cruise in September.  I’m not going to any more work on planning until I see how this all plays out.

[BarbarianPaul]

58 minutes ago, arabrab said:

I hope so.  It is nice to be internally consistent. 😇

But really, the days when the US can/should be expected.to solve all the problems are over. There are plenty of Australians, Canadians and Japanese citizens on board as passengers. Why not advocacy for those countries (or the aforementioned flag or country of incorporation) to step up and deal with the issue?

Honestly, are you kidding? So if you were stuck on the Westerdam right now, you wouldn’t support your own government’s efforts to assist in this increasingly dire situation? Yes, good idea, sit back and wait for those other countries to get you off the ship. Good plan. Good luck with that.

 

 

[icat2000]

4 hours ago, Vict0riann said:

 

Wow! Tonga - is the world going mad?  And you haven't yet been anywhere near the Far East...

No the world hasn't gone mad. But any disease or infection is devastating for small counties like Tonga who don't have the hospitals or healthcare professionals to handle any mass outbreak. They have every right to protect their citizens from the slightest risk. 

 

 

[arabrab]

23 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

Honestly, are you kidding? So if you were stuck on the Westerdam right now, you wouldn’t support your own government’s efforts to assist in this increasingly dire situation? Yes, good idea, sit back and wait for those other countries to get you off the ship. Good plan. Good luck with that.

 

 

"Increasingly dire"? 

 

Perhaps we have a different understanding of what that phrase means. These folks are onboard the Westerdam, apparently healthy, and will eventually land at a port that will accept them after enough time. The Thai government said that they would willingly help the ship refeul/re-supply if that was needed.  Not exactly dire given my understanding of the word.

 

These countries are doing their best to keep a potentially deadly infection from spreading further within their territories. The US plucked folks out of Wuhan and put them in quarantine in various military bases even if they showed no symptoms. Would you rather be in quarantine on a military base or floating around on Westerdam? 

[tjcox9]

We are booked on what we thought would be a memorable cruise for us. We so enjoyed our 27 day (9 B2Bs) with different ports a few years back on the Diamond Princess shortly after they reconfigured the ship with noodle bar, sushi restaurant, Japanese baths etc. We thought we'd like to back and found the April 11 collector's 30 day voyagr on the Westerdam to be attractive and booked it some time ago.

 

While we are anxious about the future of this interesting itinerary, we hope for the best for those on Westy as well as the other ships caught up in this and will wait to see what happens in the rather short term. HAL tells us they will make a decision shortly. 

 

It is interesting to see how many different ships are caught up in this - Crystal, Cunard, of course Diamond Princess. QM2 was allowed into Malaysia, but only for fuel and supplies, to leave off a few passengers to fly directly out as I understand and then to go directly to Darwin AUZ. Probably others vessels we do not see reporsts on as well that are not as US oriented. 

 

From what I have read, four ships were denied entry into Tonga, even if they were not coming for the affected area. Just reporting stuff I have seen/read on one or more sites, so if you have other info, please do not flame!

Edited February 12, 2020 by tjcox9
mini corrections

[BarbarianPaul]

33 minutes ago, arabrab said:

"Increasingly dire"? 

 

Perhaps we have a different understanding of what that phrase means. These folks are onboard the Westerdam, apparently healthy, and will eventually land at a port that will accept them after enough time. The Thai government said that they would willingly help the ship refeul/re-supply if that was needed.  Not exactly dire given my understanding of the word.

 

These countries are doing their best to keep a potentially deadly infection from spreading further within their territories. The US plucked folks out of Wuhan and put them in quarantine in various military bases even if they showed no symptoms. Would you rather be in quarantine on a military base or floating around on Westerdam? 

Agreed...apparently all the passengers at least seem healthy enough, though any number of them might be incubating the virus. 
 

And, yes, I do totally understand why countries  are refusing to disembark passengers. 
 

All I’m saying is that if I were on the Westerdam, I would probably be somewhat demoralized that a) my cruise was cancelled, b)  the ship was turned away at almost every port we were supposed to visit, and c) so much uncertainty remains about where we would be debarking. I personally love sea days, but in this context I’m not sure I would enjoy them. I think I’d just want to get out of there and resume my life, and if my government wanted to help, I’d be appreciative.