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tcc8v

Carnival Corporation Arrogance

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1 minute ago, brisalta said:

 

I would not be surprised if the OP is shorting CCL and trying to cause a panic.

You have a critical mind.  I admire and respect that.

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1 hour ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

I thinknfee health questionnaires are at least a partial waste of time.  We had a minor Noro outbreak last April on the Regal.  Met two passengers at the airport on the way home.  They told us they had both caught it but only stayed in their cabin one day when it was at max.  They said they told no one, attended shows, ate in the buffet and went on excursions.

 

That is shameful behaviour.

Edited by brisalta

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1 hour ago, TNTLAMB said:

Actually I was thrilled that the OP was able to clear up the spread of this virus by laying it all at the feet of the Evil incompetent Carnival corporation....... Shut 'em down = problem solved. WHY oh WHY couldn't multiple country's ministry of health, WHO and CDC have seen it as a Carnival Plot from the git go. Why of course Carnival would forego millions in revenue and spend millions more to spread a virus that clely instea if being named after a Mexican Beer (sic) should have been called the Carniva Virus. Thank Goodness the word will soon be spread world wide by individual effort on social media ROFLMAO

 

I imagined you taking part in a Seinfeld intro....

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3 hours ago, tcc8v said:

I just called Holland America about the Feb. 29 Westerdam cruise.  They offered a credit that can be applied to any 2020 cruise.  They should simply refund all moneys paid for any Asian cruises this spring.

 

The Carnival Corporation (this includes both Princess and Holland America) is the typhoid Mary of the corona virus epidemic.  According to CNN there are 318 total cases of corona virus WORLDWIDE outside of China, 61 of which are on the Diamond Princess.  To put it another way, except for the Diamond Princess, Japan has 25 cases FROM ALL SOURCES, South Korea has 24 and even Hong Kong has 24.  The Diamond Princess is a disaster without parallel outside of China.  How can we have confidence, despite all the Carnival Corporation assurances, that they can control this epidemic on any of their ships?

 

The arrogance of the Carnival Corporation is unbelievable.  It is time that they ate a big portion of humble pie.

I find your post amazing, referring to the Carnival Corporation as the typhoid Mary. Maybe you could refer to the Chinese man who boarded the Diamond Princess in Yokohama, and who unwittingly infected at least 61 people with coronavirus, as the 'Typhoid Mary'. Princess is being very responsible in doing their utmost to contain this virus to the group of people who could have been infected by this man. Neither he, nor officers on the Diamond Princess, knew he was infected when he boarded. It has been reported that he was still not showing symptoms when he disembarked seven days later - keep in mind that there is a 14 day incubation period.

 

I feel that your post is so out of line, that an apology is in order.

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Thank you for your interesting comments.

 

The point is that the Diamond Princess incident shows that if an infected person manages to board the ship, the cruise company cannot protect its passengers.  Infected individuals have a period of time without symptoms, and, as one post pointed out, might lie on their health questionnaires.  It is probably impossible to reduce to an acceptable level the risk of boarding an infected individual.  Infected individuals do get through immigration screening but their effect can be controlled on land (and hence the modest national counts of total infections outside of China).  The Diamond Princess shows that an infected on board ship is very serious.

 

National governments all over Asia apparently agree because they are closing their ports to international cruise ships.  At this time, the Westerdam is floating around the East China Sea, unable to find a port willing to accept her.

 

At this point, what I really think CCL (and probably other cruise companies) should do is to admit its inability to protect passengers and cancel its spring Asian cruises (refunds would result).  To do otherwise is IMHO arrogant.  Humble Pie would probably help.

 

Cruise critic has a very interesting article that points out that standard cruise insurance policies do not cover epidemics.  HAL does offer 'cancel any reason' policies, but these have more limited health coverage.

 

Typhoid Mary is thought to have infected only 51 people (Wikipedia).
 

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1 hour ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

I thinknfee health questionnaires are at least a partial waste of time.  We had a minor Noro outbreak last April on the Regal.  Met two passengers at the airport on the way home.  They told us they had both caught it but only stayed in their cabin one day when it was at max.  They said they told no one, attended shows, ate in the buffet and went on excursions.

I agree with you that health questionnaires are not very effective. In this case of coronavirus on the Diamond Princess, if the Chinese man who is believed to have brought the virus on board had filled out a questionnaire, he would have answered that he was well. He had no symptoms at the time.

 

On one long cruise I was on, a passenger on a shore excursion had diarrhoea. We were in a mini bus so this was obvious. He later said he had been sick with vomitting and diarrhoea (most likely noro) but didn't want to miss the tour. The arrogance of some people is mind-blowing.

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3 minutes ago, tcc8v said:

Infected individuals do get through immigration screening but their effect can be controlled on land (and hence the modest national counts of total infections outside of China).  The Diamond Princess shows that an infected on board ship is very serious.

 

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Typhoid Mary is thought to have infected only 51 people (Wikipedia).
 

An infected person on land can transmit the illness to far more people in a short time than are on a ship hence the quarantine to prevent transmission on land.

 

Typhoid Mary may have directly infected 51 people but each of those people became vectors themselves and could infect others. Note that wikipedia is not an authoritative source.

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7 minutes ago, tcc8v said:

At this point, what I really think CCL (and probably other cruise companies) should do is to admit its inability to protect passengers and cancel its spring Asian cruises (refunds would result).  To do otherwise is IMHO arrogant.  Humble Pie would probably help.

I agree with your comment that CCL and other cruise companies should cancel all Asian cruises in the next few months, or until this outbreak has been contained.

 

I don't believe that eating Humble Pie is required.🙂

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If anyone feels that any cruise line is not handling an issue to their satisfaction, they should not cruise on that company’s lines ever again. No matter the financial cost. 
 

 

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27 minutes ago, brisalta said:

An infected person on land can transmit the illness to far more people in a short time than are on a ship hence the quarantine to prevent transmission on land.

 

Typhoid Mary may have directly infected 51 people but each of those people became vectors themselves and could infect others. Note that wikipedia is not an authoritative source.


Must be a schoolteacher. They have a strange dislike for Wikipedia

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37 minutes ago, tcc8v said:

The point is that the Diamond Princess incident shows that if an infected person manages to board the ship, the cruise company cannot protect its passengers.  Infected individuals have a period of time without symptoms, and, as one post pointed out, might lie on their health questionnaires.

 

Hasn't this always been the case? One could be infected with measles, typhoid, Ebola, or whatever and, if they were currently symptom free, they could board a ship and infect everyone aboard. The cruise company could not protect the passengers.

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7 minutes ago, Thrak said:

 

Hasn't this always been the case? One could be infected with measles, typhoid, Ebola, or whatever and, if they were currently symptom free, they could board a ship and infect everyone aboard. The cruise company could not protect the passengers.

Agreed.

 

According to Mr David Abel who is on board the Diamond Princess, the cruise line and the crew on board have been fantastic. He isn't happy about being confined, but he and his wife accept the necessity of the quarantine.

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1) I don’t think we really know right now if the Princess ship really has as large a percentage of cases vs elsewhere as we think. The ship is the only place that I know of where people who have no symptoms whatsoever are being tested. Some, maybe a large percentage, who test positive may never have symptoms. There are several people who have been taken off the ship totally asymptotic.  There may be hundreds of people around the world who hav been exposed to the virus during prior travel who would have tested positive but never were tested. It appears that children only develop the most minor of symptoms. We just don’t know yet what the Princess numbers mean. 
 

2) While Princess’ contract of carriage gives then unfettered rights with US citizens to refuse refunds or changes even when the cruise completely changes my guess is that they aren’t going to be as strict as their contract allows. ( Princess’ contract is even stronger that the NCL one I looked at). The last thing they want is more bad publicity and a realization by people that European laws are more protective and hey maybe someone should introduce legislation in the US on this.  This doesn’t mean they are just going to let people cancel but I think they are going to tread carefully. 

Edited by Maya1234

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I was quarantined on the Caribbean Princess in December for an upper respiratory infection. I never tested it--I followed the doctor's orders to stay in my cabin except for my twice-a-day check-ins at the medical center. And I wore a face mask when walking from my cabin to the medical center as directed. 

 

I haven't read the 29 pages of comments about the corona virus outbreak on the Diamond Princess. I feel sorry for the passengers for being quarantined. I spent my time reading, watching movies on demand, and on the internet. 

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1 hour ago, tcc8v said:

Thank you for your interesting comments.

 

The point is that the Diamond Princess incident shows that if an infected person manages to board the ship, the cruise company cannot protect its passengers.

Yep. Viruses and bacteria don't pay attention to borders or rules. But that's not CCL's fault.  If passengers honestly answered the questionnaires (including where they've been in the last 14 days) then we would hold CCL responsible. But the problem is PEOPLE LIE

Edited by Ombud
Typo

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7 minutes ago, geoherb said:

I was quarantined on the Caribbean Princess in December for an upper respiratory infection. I never tested it--I followed the doctor's orders to stay in my cabin except for my twice-a-day check-ins at the medical center. And I wore a face mask when walking from my cabin to the medical center as directed. 

 

I haven't read the 29 pages of comments about the corona virus outbreak on the Diamond Princess. I feel sorry for the passengers for being quarantined. I spent my time reading, watching movies on demand, and on the internet. 

My wife was quarantined for the flu.  She too spent her time in the cabin; she was too miserable to want to go out!  I was not sick at all. 

 

I was very unhappy with the ship for refusing to allow me to bring her a dinner from the Main Dining Room; she was allowed room service or whatever I could bring her from the buffet or the International Café.  Lousy way to spend a cruise!

 

As to the Diamond passengers, are they confined to their cabins?  I thought the ship was quarantined, not the passengers.

 

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1 hour ago, bemis12 said:


Must be a schoolteacher. They have a strange dislike for Wikipedia

 

You certainly have strange ideas and strange assumptions. Are you by any chance a school child? 😉

Edited by brisalta

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40 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Yep. Viruses and bacteria don't pay attention to borders or rules. But that's not CCL's fault.  If passengers honestly answered the questionnaires (including where they've been in the last 14 days) then we would hold CCL responsible. But the problem is PEOPLE LIE

Did they have such a questionnaire to fill in when these passengers boarded in Yokohama in mid January?

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Not sure. I do remember one when boarding in Melbourne last November and people are talking about them before boarding in SF (my next cruise)

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Just now, Ombud said:

Not sure. I do remember one when boarding in Melbourne last November and people are talking about them before boarding in SF (my next cruise)

The only questionnaires we have had to fill in relate to a person having a high temperature or other symptoms of a cold/flu. This man apparently had no symptoms even when he disembarked. Up until this time, we haven't had to fill in a questionnaire relating to our previous travel when we have boarded a cruise ship. We have when returning to Australia.

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I hadn't been given a health questionnaire in the past three years until I boarded an Oceania cruise last Nov.  EM

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1 hour ago, Mike45LC said:

 

 

As to the Diamond passengers, are they confined to their cabins?  I thought the ship was quarantined, not the passengers.

 

They are confined to their cabins so that any further cases that develop don't spread to other passengers. There are people stationed in every corridor to ensure people don't leave their cabins.

 

The only exception is those in inside and oceanview cabins who have been allowed up onto an upper deck, in controlled groups, to get fresh air and exercise. They must wear masks and gloves and remain one metre away from other passengers.

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Princess did away with the health questionnaire some time ago because they realized that all passengers lie and do not admit to being sick upon boarding  Nobody ever admitted to being sick - so Princess did the right thing -helped save the environment by reducing paper! With regard to the Diamond they, unfortunately, became caught up in human nature ie all people lie if by telling the truth they will be denied boarding and it's going to cost them $$

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7 minutes ago, smithmlmx said:

Princess did away with the health questionnaire some time ago because they realized that all passengers lie and do not admit to being sick upon boarding  Nobody ever admitted to being sick - so Princess did the right thing -helped save the environment by reducing paper! With regard to the Diamond they, unfortunately, became caught up in human nature ie all people lie if by telling the truth they will be denied boarding and it's going to cost them $$

Even if Princess still had the old questionnaires, what would have been different? The man did not have symptoms when he boarded so that is how he would have answered the questions.

 

It is costing Princess mega dollars, but they can't charge the man responsible for bringing the virus onto the Diamond.

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18 minutes ago, smithmlmx said:

Princess did away with the health questionnaire some time ago because they realized that all passengers lie and do not admit to being sick upon boarding  Nobody ever admitted to being sick

 

Not true. I saw a few passengers turn in health questionnaires at the pier in Seattle. All were seen by the ships doctors who made the decisions whether the passengers were allowed to cruise or not. But I would agree that probably most people would, shall we say, stretch the truth.

 

Tom

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