New NCL cancellation policy 3/6/2020

[travelinmama]

IMPORTANT... I had contacted our credit card company previously about having to cancel something to see if they would back us up and was basically told no.. However, IF it is related to coronavirus (and you have to tell them that), we were told by OUR CC company, that they ARE giving "non refundable" bookings etc back to their customers.  We had a transfer from Seward to Anchorage and the company refused to budge on the "non refundable deposit"  despite the fact that we told them that our cruise ship was unable to dock in Vancouver and therefore, the cruise would more than likely not be occurring.  They basically said it didn't matter (these are the companies that I will definitely remember next time).. anyway, I thought it was a lost cause but we called our cc company today and they said they are definitely giving the refund back to us.. .so for those of you having issues with non refundable deposits, TRY the cc company. It depends upon the company but it might work

[Cindy]

19 hours ago, Ninihix said:

Norwegian will not give me a refund for a cruise leaving Puerto Rico on March 22. I am 70 and my husband has health conditions. We were concerned and cancelled on March 10th. That was a couple of days before the Peace of Mind policy came out. Not only do we have to take a cruise credit but we do not qualify for the top up. I believe we are being treated unfairly compared to other cruise lines. Very disappointed. 

That is exactly how the lines under the Royal Caribbean umbrella are handling it. 

[Cindy]

1 hour ago, travelinmama said:

We had a transfer from Seward to Anchorage and the company refused to budge on the "non refundable deposit"  despite the fact that we told them that our cruise ship was unable to dock in Vancouver and therefore, the cruise would more than likely not be occurring.  They basically said it didn't matter (these are the companies that I will definitely remember next time).

Under the circumstances, that is just awful!

 

Every vendor I was using in Hawaii has refunded, including those that normally have a penalty or administrative fee for cancellations. Even my advance-purchase, no refunds hotel refunded without a moment’s hesitation.

 

Anyone that had given me a hard time would have been crossed off my list for when I do make the trip!

[travelinmama]

Hi Cindy. Yes some of the hotels that had a non-refundable charge were more than happy to give us a full credit back as in like a full cash refund. I was very upset with this one transfer company because I explained that it was not our fault since the cruise was not even taken place. They basically said that they had nothing to do with it because they were not associated in any way with the cruise line and they were standing firm with their deposit.

[julig22]

1 hour ago, travelinmama said:

IMPORTANT... I had contacted our credit card company previously about having to cancel something to see if they would back us up and was basically told no.. However, IF it is related to coronavirus (and you have to tell them that), we were told by OUR CC company, that they ARE giving "non refundable" bookings etc back to their customers.  We had a transfer from Seward to Anchorage and the company refused to budge on the "non refundable deposit"  despite the fact that we told them that our cruise ship was unable to dock in Vancouver and therefore, the cruise would more than likely not be occurring.  They basically said it didn't matter (these are the companies that I will definitely remember next time).. anyway, I thought it was a lost cause but we called our cc company today and they said they are definitely giving the refund back to us.. .so for those of you having issues with non refundable deposits, TRY the cc company. It depends upon the company but it might work

Yes, some CCs will refund non-refundable deposits, so it pays to check on that.  Costco used to but when they stopped, I opted for a travel card (with an annual fee - something I vowed I would never do!) that covers exactly this situation. While I sympathize with everyone who has lost money through all of this, it does point out the need for travel insurance from one source or another. So far, my canceled cruise should be fully reimbursed because everything was arranged through NCL but I probably won't be able to take the same trip because I got a fantastic deal.  But I have another one (soon to be canceled I presume) that was put together piecemeal through NCL credits, plus non-refundable airfare/hotel reservations through Expedia. Can't do anything until NCL cancels.

[julig22]

2 hours ago, travelinmama said:

Thanks so much. I also saw that they are making you sign a form saying you are no longer entitled to the 20% off (was this a discount for past cruisers? )if you take the cash..wow.

Where did you see that?  I was planning to book a couple of cruises using my CruiseNext certificates - still on the fence between FCC and cash.  Nowhere in the letter I received does it say that the 20% is tied to the FCC offer.

[travelinmama]

13 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Yes, some CCs will refund non-refundable deposits, so it pays to check on that.  Costco used to but when they stopped, I opted for a travel card (with an annual fee - something I vowed I would never do!) that covers exactly this situation. While I sympathize with everyone who has lost money through all of this, it does point out the need for travel insurance from one source or another. So far, my canceled cruise should be fully reimbursed because everything was arranged through NCL but I probably won't be able to take the same trip because I got a fantastic deal.  But I have another one (soon to be canceled I presume) that was put together piecemeal through NCL credits, plus non-refundable airfare/hotel reservations through Expedia. Can't do anything until NCL cancels.

 

[travelinmama]

8 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Where did you see that?  I was planning to book a couple of cruises using my CruiseNext certificates - still on the fence between FCC and cash.  Nowhere in the letter I received does it say that the 20% is tied to the FCC offer.

If you look at the very top of the NCL page and click on the Corona virus link then there's like a drop-down menu and I think it was about 3/4 of the way down the page if I remember. It says something about the refund and then I believe there's a link to process a refund and if you click on that link it's a paper that you have to fill out and there are certain things in there that says you agree to and one of them said something about the 20% discount I believe. Unfortunately I'm not able to get on that site right now so I can't remember exactly how it's worded but it is well hidden.

[travelinmama]

2 minutes ago, travelinmama said:

 

Yes I always take out insurance through a third party but I'm not even sure if it would cover this because depending upon your state of residency things are different in the policy as to what's covered and what's not. Unfortunately my son and daughter-in-law who were also going with us live in New York City and there is a lot that is not covered when you purchase a policy that covers someone in New York City

[julig22]

1 hour ago, travelinmama said:

If you look at the very top of the NCL page and click on the Corona virus link then there's like a drop-down menu and I think it was about 3/4 of the way down the page if I remember. It says something about the refund and then I believe there's a link to process a refund and if you click on that link it's a paper that you have to fill out and there are certain things in there that says you agree to and one of them said something about the 20% discount I believe. Unfortunately I'm not able to get on that site right now so I can't remember exactly how it's worded but it is well hidden.

I just did a mock booking and when I got to the payment screen it says "Enjoy 20% off your cruise fare.  Discount already applied.  Use your Future Cruise Credit to lock it in"

Not ready to book yet, but was thinking of only using CN certificates.  hmmmm

[pokerpro5]

1 hour ago, julig22 said:

I just did a mock booking and when I got to the payment screen it says "Enjoy 20% off your cruise fare.  Discount already applied.  Use your Future Cruise Credit to lock it in"

Not ready to book yet, but was thinking of only using CN certificates.  hmmmm

 

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!

 

Please don't book now!

 

It's your money, of course, and you can do what you want.  However, there is no point to book anything at the moment, as you will get a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, NO GOOD, VERY BAD DEAL.

 

Prices are inflated super high right now, especially compared to what they will actually be when the cruise industry gets going again.

 

Unless you like paying a lot more than others will pay for the exact same thing, I suggest you wait and do not book anything right now, despite what "perks" and "discounts" you are being offered.

[pokerpro5]

3 hours ago, travelinmama said:

If you look at the very top of the NCL page and click on the Corona virus link then there's like a drop-down menu and I think it was about 3/4 of the way down the page if I remember. It says something about the refund and then I believe there's a link to process a refund and if you click on that link it's a paper that you have to fill out and there are certain things in there that says you agree to and one of them said something about the 20% discount I believe. Unfortunately I'm not able to get on that site right now so I can't remember exactly how it's worded but it is well hidden.

 

You're correct that there is a 20% discount directly associated with converting your cash refund into an FCC *and* booking by April 10.  If you don't do BOTH of these things, indeed you lose your 20%.

 

Any other 20% being offered to the general public on ncl.com is unrelated, and you won't lose that if you get  a cash refund.  These are two different discounts.

 

HOWEVER, as I keep saying, and I can't stress this enough, DO NOT BOOK NOW because the prices are inflated artificially high, and will drop big time when they get going again.

 

Why should you believe me?  Click on my signature and you'll see an (admittedly obsolete) guide on NCL pricing and how it works, which many people followed successfully.  I'm not just some schlub making guesses.

[pokerpro5]

Now that many of you are taking about using credit card chargebacks to get refunds, I should explain that process a bit, so everyone understands.

 

If you purchase ANYTHING on a credit card, you have the right to initiate a "chargeback" procedure, where you're basically challenging the validity of a purchase.  The decision-maker is the bank/company providing you the credit card, and that decision is final.

 

Even if you're 100% in the wrong, you have the right to do a chargeback, much like you have the right to file a civil court case against someone even if you're in the wrong.  However, much like the court scenario, there's no guarantee you will win anything.

 

Also much like court, the other party is REQUIRED to answer.  If they do not answer, you win by default.  This "trick" often works against large companies which lack the time and resources to respond to chargebacks, as usually the timeframe is 30 days.

 

If the company does response, the credit card company then makes a decision as to who is right.  It's almost always an "all or nothing" situation.  However, you can partially charge back.  For example, if I bought two identical items from an internet merchant and he only sent me one, I would chargeback half, and would explain in the justification why I was charging back half.

 

Additionally, if the amount is small  -- such as under $40 -- the credit card company will simply choose to eat it and instantly credit you back.  This annoys me somewhat, because sometimes I'm 100% in the right and would totally win the chargeback, and it bothers me that the shady merchant still gets to keep the money, even though I'm getting refunded.  But that's also worth keeping in mind.  That's another way you can win.

 

Sometimes you need to submit the chargeback via form that you e-mail, fax, or submit via web.  Other times you just need to call up and the credit card company will do the dispute for you (this is actually more common).

 

In cases where you are canceling something which was associated with your cruise, such as a port activity or airport transfer, you should definitely charge it back if the company won't help you.  In the chargeback, you should note that it is INDUSTRY STANDARD to give a full refund if "the cruise doesn't make port".  That's basically the standard most companies use.  Usually you won't get a refund if the weather is bad, for example.  However, if the cruise ship never shows up (which in this case, of course, it can't), then you get a refund.  It's very important to mention this when charging back stuff like this.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.  Good luck.

[travelinmama]

11 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

You're correct that there is a 20% discount directly associated with converting your cash refund into an FCC *and* booking by April 10.  If you don't do BOTH of these things, indeed you lose your 20%.

 

Any other 20% being offered to the general public on ncl.com is unrelated, and you won't lose that if you get  a cash refund.  These are two different discounts.

 

HOWEVER, as I keep saying, and I can't stress this enough, DO NOT BOOK NOW because the prices are inflated artificially high, and will drop big time when they get going again.

 

Why should you believe me?  Click on my signature and you'll see an (admittedly obsolete) guide on NCL pricing and how it works, which many people followed successfully.  I'm not just some schlub making guesses.

You definitely sound like you know what you're talking about So I will trust you. Thank you so much for the explanation. So for a cruise that we have scheduled for May 25th, should we just let it ride for right now and call them later? I know it's going to be canceled because of the whole whole Vancouver port issue

[pokerpro5]

Just now, travelinmama said:

You definitely sound like you know what you're talking about So I will trust you. Thank you so much for the explanation. So for a cruise that we have scheduled for May 25th, should we just let it ride for right now and call them later? I know it's going to be canceled because of the whole whole Vancouver port issue

 

Yes, don't cancel anything on your own right now.  Let them cancel on you.  Once they do that, you'll be entitled by law to a cash refund, or you can elect to take the higher FCC.

 

I would suggest just going with the cash, because there is some chance that Norwegian will cease to exist.  I think they'll survive (or at least be bought out by someone else), but you never know.  FCC will become useless if Norwegian goes under.  It's like a gift certificate for a free lunch at a restaurant that closes.

 

Before you book anything, ask yourself, "Are these prices a lot lower than what I'm used to paying?"  If the answer is NO, then they are pulling shenanigans, and you should wait until they get going again and the prices fall.

 

I have a feeling that all cruise lines are going to have to give deep discounts to fill up boats in the coming years, especially the first year after this passes.  The first cruises when they return might fill up, due to all the people using their FCCs or whatever, but shortly after that, they're gonna have a really hard time convincing a lot of cruisers (many of whom are elderly) that it's safe and not likely to get quarantined again.

[travelinmama]

Ok thanks so very much. I'm hoping that they cancel and not change the ports around. Thanks again for all your help

[julig22]

19 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!

 

Please don't book now!

 

It's your money, of course, and you can do what you want.  However, there is no point to book anything at the moment, as you will get a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, NO GOOD, VERY BAD DEAL.

 

Prices are inflated super high right now, especially compared to what they will actually be when the cruise industry gets going again.

 

Unless you like paying a lot more than others will pay for the exact same thing, I suggest you wait and do not book anything right now, despite what "perks" and "discounts" you are being offered.

While I appreciate your opinion, I will disagree.  I have quite a bit of experience manipulating the NCL pricing model.  There is absolutely no harm in using 2 Cruise Next certificates to book a cruise 10 months from now.  If NCL goes bankrupt, I will lose them anyway.  If prices go down, I re-book.

 

However, there is nothing in the "Dear Valued Guest" letter confirming that my cruise has been canceled that ties the 20% discount to FCC.  So I was asking for actual experience from anyone who has booked without taking the FCC.

 

Actual wording: "In addition, and as a special thank you for choosing Norwegian Cruise Line, we are pleased to offer you an additional 20% discount, for a limited time only, on any sailing from July 1,2020 through December 31,2022, when you reserve by April 10,2020"

 

 

[pokerpro5]

3 minutes ago, travelinmama said:

Ok thanks so very much. I'm hoping that they cancel and not change the ports around. Thanks again for all your help

 

They had that 48-hour cancellation window in place prior to the shutdown, where you get the equivalent in FCC.  I have to imagine they will reopen that deal, even if this cruise ends up going on May 25 (which, I agree, is unlikely.)

 

So I wouldn't sweat it right now.

[pokerpro5]

1 minute ago, julig22 said:

While I appreciate your opinion, I will disagree.  I have quite a bit of experience manipulating the NCL pricing model.  There is absolutely no harm in using 2 Cruise Next certificates to book a cruise 10 months from now.  If NCL goes bankrupt, I will lose them anyway.  If prices go down, I re-book.

 

However, there is nothing in the "Dear Valued Guest" letter confirming that my cruise has been canceled that ties the 20% discount to FCC.  So I was asking for actual experience from anyone who has booked without taking the FCC.

 

Actual wording: "In addition, and as a special thank you for choosing Norwegian Cruise Line, we are pleased to offer you an additional 20% discount, for a limited time only, on any sailing from July 1,2020 through December 31,2022, when you reserve by April 10,2020"

 

 

 

I mean, I guess you can re-book, but why even bother?  Do you really envision a world where there is high demand for cruising when all of this starts up again, and the prices go UP?

 

BTW, if you are experienced at "manipulating the NCL pricing model", you should know that it's NEVER wise to book anything prior to final payment date, except for rare itineraries or hoilday dates (which sell out).  The bargains tend to appear AFTER final payment date (usually starting about a month later), for obvious reasons.

 

This is why the correct play is to just hold the FCC, wait until the cruise lines get desperate (once they start operating again), and snag incredible deals.

 

Regarding the wording of the 20% discount, maybe you're right about that part.  However, as I said before, 20% off current prices still sucks, given the inflated pricing (which is inflated exactly for that purpose.)

[julig22]

18 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

Now that many of you are taking about using credit card chargebacks to get refunds, I should explain that process a bit, so everyone understands.

 

If you purchase ANYTHING on a credit card, you have the right to initiate a "chargeback" procedure, where you're basically challenging the validity of a purchase.  The decision-maker is the bank/company providing you the credit card, and that decision is final.

 

Even if you're 100% in the wrong, you have the right to do a chargeback, much like you have the right to file a civil court case against someone even if you're in the wrong.  However, much like the court scenario, there's no guarantee you will win anything.

 

Also much like court, the other party is REQUIRED to answer.  If they do not answer, you win by default.  This "trick" often works against large companies which lack the time and resources to respond to chargebacks, as usually the timeframe is 30 days.

 

If the company does response, the credit card company then makes a decision as to who is right.  It's almost always an "all or nothing" situation.  However, you can partially charge back.  For example, if I bought two identical items from an internet merchant and he only sent me one, I would chargeback half, and would explain in the justification why I was charging back half.

 

Additionally, if the amount is small  -- such as under $40 -- the credit card company will simply choose to eat it and instantly credit you back.  This annoys me somewhat, because sometimes I'm 100% in the right and would totally win the chargeback, and it bothers me that the shady merchant still gets to keep the money, even though I'm getting refunded.  But that's also worth keeping in mind.  That's another way you can win.

 

Sometimes you need to submit the chargeback via form that you e-mail, fax, or submit via web.  Other times you just need to call up and the credit card company will do the dispute for you (this is actually more common).

 

In cases where you are canceling something which was associated with your cruise, such as a port activity or airport transfer, you should definitely charge it back if the company won't help you.  In the chargeback, you should note that it is INDUSTRY STANDARD to give a full refund if "the cruise doesn't make port".  That's basically the standard most companies use.  Usually you won't get a refund if the weather is bad, for example.  However, if the cruise ship never shows up (which in this case, of course, it can't), then you get a refund.  It's very important to mention this when charging back stuff like this.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.  Good luck.

What you have said is correct - however, there are a couple of additional details people should be aware of.

If dealing with a non-refundable deposit, you may not win - the bank would decide.  Under normal circumstances, the merchant contract would probably prevail, but under current circumstances, they might find otherwise.

If dealing with a "ship docks" policy, putting in a claim prior to the date, the merchant could also deny the claim, although you should eventually get your money.

 

The elephant in the room is the chargeback when people are trying to circumvent the merchant (ie, NCL or airline) refund policy because they don't like the terms or are impatient.  That is friendly fraud and could have consequences.

[pokerpro5]

10 minutes ago, julig22 said:

What you have said is correct - however, there are a couple of additional details people should be aware of.

If dealing with a non-refundable deposit, you may not win - the bank would decide.  Under normal circumstances, the merchant contract would probably prevail, but under current circumstances, they might find otherwise.

If dealing with a "ship docks" policy, putting in a claim prior to the date, the merchant could also deny the claim, although you should eventually get your money.

 

The elephant in the room is the chargeback when people are trying to circumvent the merchant (ie, NCL or airline) refund policy because they don't like the terms or are impatient.  That is friendly fraud and could have consequences.

 

LOL, I wouldn't exactly call it "friendly fraud".

 

Funny that you bring up the "impatient" thing when it comes to chargebacks, because I dealt with exactly that situation with an airline.  They owed me $120 back, and they acknowledged they owed me $120.  However, "due to staffing issues" they couldn't send it to me for 12 weeks.  I was told this when I called for the refund.  I promptly charged it back and got the $120 quickly.  The credit card company took my side because 12 weeks was considered an unreasonable amount of time to make a customer wait for a refund.

 

I don't know how fast NCL is giving people refunds, but once those refunds are qualified (i.e. the cruise is canceled), it's totally fine for passengers to do a chareback if there's going to be a lengthy delay in getting the money back.

 

I agree with the rest of what you said.  You indeed may not win in "non-refundable deposit" situations, but there many indeed be exceptions being made because of the coronavirus matter.  And yes, one should probably wait to chargeback (for anything) until after the cruise is officially cancelled.  "Probably will be cancelled" isn't good enough.

[julig22]

8 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

I mean, I guess you can re-book, but why even bother?  Do you really envision a world where there is high demand for cruising when all of this starts up again, and the prices go UP?

 

BTW, if you are experienced at "manipulating the NCL pricing model", you should know that it's NEVER wise to book anything prior to final payment date, except for rare itineraries or hoilday dates (which sell out).  The bargains tend to appear AFTER final payment date (usually starting about a month later), for obvious reasons.

 

This is why the correct play is to just hold the FCC, wait until the cruise lines get desperate (once they start operating again), and snag incredible deals.

 

Regarding the wording of the 20% discount, maybe you're right about that part.  However, as I said before, 20% off current prices still sucks, given the inflated pricing (which is inflated exactly for that purpose.)

So when all the people with FCC book, you think prices will be down - not in my opinion.  There will be a rush in the next year to book (FCC lost if you haven't booked).  NCL has a captive audience, they can charge whatever they want and may have little incentive to lower prices. It could go either way.

 

There is no magic time to book - prices go up and down with demand - it all depends on your situation.  If you want a holiday or summer cruise, waiting may cost you more - and cruises do sell out (mine did).  I book when the price and perks are what I want, knowing that I can make adjustments later.  I booked my now cancelled cruise during the BlackFriday sale - got dirt cheap airfare plus a 20/30% discount.  Booked a OV, knowing I would later upgrade (low bid for balcony accepted 100+ days prior to cruise date).  Cruise, without airfare, was always higher than what I paid (and cruise sold out).  I booked an Alaska cruise last December - my cost is still less, but perks have changed - so it's a choice between reduced airfare & more OBC or double excursion credits, which might make up the cost difference.  Time to start looking at airfare costs!

 

I am on the fence between FCC and cash right now but it's a no brainer on the anticipated May cancellation because I'd have to split the FCC with passenger #2.

[julig22]

23 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

LOL, I wouldn't exactly call it "friendly fraud".

 

Funny that you bring up the "impatient" thing when it comes to chargebacks, because I dealt with exactly that situation with an airline.  They owed me $120 back, and they acknowledged they owed me $120.  However, "due to staffing issues" they couldn't send it to me for 12 weeks.  I was told this when I called for the refund.  I promptly charged it back and got the $120 quickly.  The credit card company took my side because 12 weeks was considered an unreasonable amount of time to make a customer wait for a refund.

 

I don't know how fast NCL is giving people refunds, but once those refunds are qualified (i.e. the cruise is canceled), it's totally fine for passengers to do a chareback if there's going to be a lengthy delay in getting the money back.

 

I agree with the rest of what you said.  You indeed may not win in "non-refundable deposit" situations, but there many indeed be exceptions being made because of the coronavirus matter.  And yes, one should probably wait to chargeback (for anything) until after the cruise is officially cancelled.  "Probably will be cancelled" isn't good enough.

Friendly fraud is actually the term used when people try to circumvent a refund policy that they don't agree with.  NCL is currently saying "allow 90 days"  so about 12 weeks.  Doesn't mean it will take that long for a simple refund.  But not all are simple - and if you complicate matters by asking for a chargeback, NCL could put your claim on the bottom of the pile.

https://chargebacks911.com/filing-false-credit-card-dispute/

[travelinmama]

When was your cruise? We were booked on the Jewel 5/25 Vancouver to seward

[travelinmama]

Yeah I would prefer to just get a refund from NCL. I would never request the credit card company to get involved if I was told I'd be getting a full cash refund