What does the future of cruising look like?

[Hawaiidan]

3 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

 

Your Governor Newsom seems to think our President is doing a good job. Hope you stay healthy Paul.

So does almost 70% of the american public....   California, Nevada are really thankful for all the extra help the President and staff team are providing....  I am.   Politics has no place in a pandemic...we all are one  or should be

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

I am glad that the vast majority of my travels is behind me and not ahead of me.

 

Amazing that I was just considering this thought before I scrolled far enough to read your post. Well, unfortunately, for us at our mid-60s and only retired less than 10 years, I sure hoped to enjoy many more years of (relatively carefree) travels. But indeed it seems like this is all going to be a game changer. Hard to tell. The travel companies' bottom lines may well cause some of the decision making to be based on, shall we say, a lapse in memory of what things are like at present (unless, of course, we truly don't even pull out of this in a way hoped for). Revised policies may be stringent at first, then gradually relaxed depending on how things proceed. Case in point - the 2008 recession. Sure...changes were made, laws were passed, and promises were made. Some were kept, but some were simply discarded or shoved to the side of the road as banks were bailed out, stock markets eclipsed records and the US Government threw lifelines at government-backed institutions that nearly drowned in the whirlpool of irresponsible debt they helped to create. Some intended measures - broader reforms to protect consumers, investors and borrowers - have not endured. Money talks, in most cases. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Paulchili]

17 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

No one saw this coming because the chinese  kept their mouths shut.

No one? By no one you mean Trump? Because others would have if they had been allowed to do so:

https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/20/was-white-house-office-global-pandemics-eliminated/

https://www.healio.com/infectious-disease/emerging-diseases/news/print/infectious-disease-news/{b10487f4-510a-41dc-9056-f47b60f15bb5}/trump-warned-about-inevitable-infectious-disease-outbreak

Also look at TED lecture given by Bill Gates in 2014 - outlining EXACTLY what just happened.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Paulchili

[Zesty Italian]

On 3/28/2020 at 11:23 AM, Petoonya said:

I'm the crazy dismissive, cavalier cruiser who was determined to sail on Regatta Tahiti-SF in April. I'm ashamed of my attitude now and freely admit that I was hopelessly entrenched in my own desires. It was not until around March 12 when my state asked us to isolate at home that the depth and scope of Coronavirus finally hit me over the head like a frying pan. And then the horror that is Italy and NY. My adult kids had been jumping up and down for weeks trying to get me to listen to what those smarter than me were trying to impress on the world. I've not left home but twice for groceries since then. I ask those who patiently listened to my rants for forgiveness.

 

Yet.....I have bookings on both Windstar in November 2020 and O April 2021. If cruising is being permitted for a healthy person my age (68) at that time, I'll go. But I won't be disdainful or as arrogant I was prior to my Tahiti cruise- if cruising is questionable or not at all I won't feel deprived not going. I'm not a Fox news person or part of the cult following of you-know-who. Just someone who thought she was smarter than the average bear. But been taught a good lesson in humility.

 

Thanks for your patience.

I really admire your admission and humility!  As a medical person, I was upset and worried about the cavalier attitudes seen on the board.  It wasn't about wanting to be right, but I think doctors wanting to be safe and worried about public health.  Your post may help others who felt that way to be willing to listen even if they don't admit it.  Thank you!!  

[OnTheJourney]

15 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

So does almost 70% of the american public....

 

Not really...try more like 60%. I'm sorry, but the man, for me, inspires absolutely no confidence whatsoever. There has been far too inconsistent an approach to deal with the outbreak in the early stages. Things like telling the American people that - when the first 10-15 cases appeared in the US - it'll "simply go away soon" was ludicrous and just wasted valuable time. Thankfully he at least finally listened to Dr. Fauci when presented the "data" and decided against the impractical idea of reopening business by Easter. But, thus far, the level of indecision displayed within the administration has slowed down the response. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Another thing I forgot! Everyone knows effective 2021 US citizens will need a new permit from ETIAS to travel to Europe. Expect to submit a vaccination certificate with all required shots to get that permit.

 

How was "everyone" to know this? Where'd you hear or read it? 

[Zesty Italian]

28 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

What planet are you living on? Things must be a lot better there than they are here in the US.

We have already double the number of cases in China and are NOWHERE near the apex with new hot spots popping up daily.

That is with the number of actual cases grossly under counted due to lack of tests and testing.

If people go back early and social distancing is relaxed, restaurants, bars open many more people will get sick - how is that going to help the economy?

AMEN!!  We did not respond to what we should have learned from China.  Trump doesn't listen to doctors he just spouts off nonsense.  This is not going away by Easter.

[LHT28]

today we had  over 350 in Ontario alone

We have a case  reported in our town  so now to wait & see where she went  before we venture out for food supplies

 

It would have to be  a miracle if this was cleared  by  Easter

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

as for petrie dishes  ever been to a daycare centre /nursing home ?? 😷

[OnTheJourney]

18 hours ago, CintiPam said:

I am sorry you feel this way.  We started traveling regularly to Europe annually DIY on our once a year vacation from work only when our younger child started college in 2002 so certainly not long enough ago to approach anywhere near the number of countries Paul has visited.  (Like many others, we used Rick Steves’s guidebooks for inspiration and cost savings initially.). And our very first cruise ever was in 2008, so also not at all that long ago.  (Our money before that was devoted to our children’s education.)
 

Only in the last two years since we both now are retired fully have we taken more than one lengthy trip abroad per year 

 

Anyway, the only reason I picked this comment out of all the postings on this informative thread is to encourage you (once we are past this crisis) to consider DIY outside of Canada and the USA.  We are so lucky to speak the language the rest of the travel world uses most other than the native language and you easily can book online in English for car rentals, train reservations, hotels and restaurants. (Back when we travelled annually PK, pre-kids, I remember writing letters on Airmail stationery to book hotel reservations!) 

 

Best wishes to you and yours for all your travels, regardless of where you choose to go.

 

Nope...sorry...I don't mind booking my own hotels and airport transfers for a few days before an organized tour or cruise, but I would never want to do any extensive driving in other countries and planning a lengthy road trip, etc. I have no problem with it in the US...and love doing it actually...but just would be so worried about it in Europe let alone anywhere beyond that. I'm sure it's very doable, but for foreign trips I'd rather have the planning done for me. Thanks for the encouragement though. I'll just be MORE than happy if I can get on the Viking Venus in January in Rome along with Mr. Hagen and not have to worry about getting the virus. Probably wishful thinking I suppose. A more broad goal is better...that of simply being able to even continue to travel relatively carefree. Maybe those days are gone forever. This is totally off topic, but I feel so sad for young people who have succumbed to the virus - just their unfortunate bad luck to be born in a time when this came about before they had lived many years yet in some cases. 

[LHT28]

9 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

 

How was "everyone" to know this? Where'd you hear or read it? 

it was announce last year  about the ETIAS 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

[deadzone1003]

8 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

What planet are you living on? Things must be a lot better there than they are here in the US.

We have already double the number of cases in China and are NOWHERE near the apex with new hot spots popping up daily.

That is with the number of actual cases grossly under counted due to lack of tests and testing.

If people go back early and social distancing is relaxed, restaurants, bars open many more people will get sick - how is that going to help the economy?

The problem in China was they allowed their citizens to be so sick before treating them.  At that time, there was no treatment method.  The disease overwhelm their medical system.  As I stated before, if we can move treatment from the hospital setting to an outpatient setting, we will have a very good chance of the virus not overwhelming our medical system.  For most people under 60, this is not any more dangerous than the flu.  It is people with underlying conditions and people over 70 who are at most risk.  The choak hold in our medical system is the ICU beds and ventilators - also doesn't matter how many ventilators you have if you don't have the personnel to monitor them.  If we can treat people before they get to that stage where they require an ICU bed or ventilator on an outpatient basis, that would be great, but it would require greater testing plus a treatment protocol which Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has suggested.  It doesn't matter if more people are getting the coronavirus as long as we can reduce the death rate and hospital admittence  to flu-like numbers.  (Nobody is complaining about the death rate of flu, so can I assume that would be acceptable to most people).  This is a means of reaching herd immunity without destroying the economy yet allowing people to get back to work.  I really can't see any ideal choice but only choices that are less destructive than others.

[Zesty Italian]

2 minutes ago, deadzone1003 said:

For most people under 60, this is not any more dangerous than the flu.  It is people with underlying conditions and people over 70 who are at most risk.  The choak hold in our medical system is the ICU beds and ventilators - also doesn't matter how many ventilators you have if you don't have t

Tell this to the people in their 20s , 30s 40s who have died!  And where do you get the idea we have enough ventilators?  

[YoHoHo]

 

56 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

1 hour ago, deadzone1003 said:

I'm hoping for an after Easter get back to work.  It will depend on supply chain of the needed drugs.

 

What planet are you living on? Things must be a lot better there than they are here in the US.

We have already double the number of cases in China and are NOWHERE near the apex with new hot spots popping up daily.

That is with the number of actual cases grossly under counted due to lack of tests and testing.

If people go back early and social distancing is relaxed, restaurants, bars open many more people will get sick - how is that going to help the economy?

 

Comparing not with China but with Italy

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/20/21179040/coronavirus-us-italy-not-overreacting

[LHT28]

unfortunately it is people spreading the virus

 

[Paulchili]

6 minutes ago, YoHoHo said:

 

 

Comparing not with China but with Italy

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/20/21179040/coronavirus-us-italy-not-overreacting

Exactly. And that was just a mere 8 days ago - look where we are today!

[CanEcosse]

  3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Another thing I forgot! Everyone knows effective 2021 US citizens will need a new permit from ETIAS to travel to Europe.

 

2022? https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

[LHT28]

I will just add my speculation

I think this virus has been around a lot longer  than when it was finally reported

JMO

Here is  a story make of  it what you will

 Our friends  live in Slovenia  & teach at the university there

 In early Dec 2019   the had an exchange student from Wuhan   by mid Dec  our friend was very ill with a bad flu   just as he was feeling better  his wife came down with it

Hindsight being 20/20  they now think it was COVID-19  as per all the symptoms posted now

They left to stay in a small town at their summer home  near the Croation border   to stay safe

They will probably get tested when they return to Maribor to see if they have any sign of the Covid virus 

not sure if it leave  a trace in your body  after you recover

 

 keep well

 

[deadzone1003]

1 hour ago, Zesty Italian said:

Tell this to the people in their 20s , 30s 40s who have died!  And where do you get the idea we have enough ventilators?  

Unless you are referring to the young Chinese in Wuhan, or young Italians in Italy, or young Spaniards in Spain, no one in this country in their 20's, 30's or 40's died from a lack of ventilators that I am aware of.  Please provide me with some actual cases.  New York has not even use many of the ventilators that the Federal Government had given them.  Most of them are in storage.  My point is we should be treating this as early as possible so we never reach the ventilator stage unless that is your goal.  When you reach the ventilator stage, you can't breathe on your own.  Your lungs are literally caked in cement, the bodies of dead viruses and the residual by-products of your immune system.  When you go on a ventilator, it starts destroying the remaining healthy capillaries in your lungs through the actions of the ventilator.  

[deadzone1003]

10 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I will just add my speculation

I think this virus has been around a lot longer  than when it was finally reported

JMO

Here is  a story make of  it what you will

 Our friends  live in Slovenia  & teach at the university there

 In early Dec 2019   the had an exchange student from Wuhan   by mid Dec  our friend was very ill with a bad flu   just as he was feeling better  his wife came down with it

Hindsight being 20/20  they now think it was COVID-19  as per all the symptoms posted now

They left to stay in a small town at their summer home  near the Croation border   to stay safe

They will probably get tested when they return to Maribor to see if they have any sign of the Covid virus 

not sure if it leave  a trace in your body  after you recover

 

 keep well

 

I believe my 32-year old son has had it back in late February.  He thought he had the flu, but he had extreme fatigue which is one of the symtoms of the virus.  In his office 2 other workers had what they thought was the flu, but he later learn one of his fellow workers had coronavirus.  Fortunately, it is a 3 worker office as he was the last one to get sick.  I told him to get one of those tests that are just coming out where it can determine if you had the virus or not.  I really don't know how far back in time these test can determine if you had the virus or not.  

[OnTheJourney]

2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

it was announce last year  about the ETIAS 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

Interesting that I never received anything from Viking about this, being that I'm scheduled for a cruise starting in Rome in January. 

 

Just looked at the requirements associated with submitting the application - looks like a royal pain. I'm turned off - might just consider sticking to travel in the US from now on. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[clo]

3 hours ago, Paulchili said:

NOWHERE near the apex

And how long will it stay at that level? We have rented a house on the WA coast for late July to get together with daughter and her family andI'm not confident that we will be doing it. I can see us still social distancing for a long time. And will be happy, happy if that's not the case.

[OnTheJourney]

33 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Interesting that I never received anything from Viking about this, being that I'm scheduled for a cruise starting in Rome in January. 

 

Just looked at the requirements associated with submitting the application - looks like a royal pain. I'm turned off - might just consider sticking to travel in the US from now on. 

 

My goof....this Schengen visa thing does not apply to US citizens - didn't read it closely enough. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[clo]

20 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

 

My goof....this Schengen visa thing does not apply to US citizens - didn't read it closely enough. 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans

 

It's been pushed out to the end of 2022. And it appears it can be done online. (Read below the appointment at a consulate part.)

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

 

My goof....this Schengen visa thing does not apply to US citizens - didn't read it closely enough. 

The ETIAS  does apply to US Citizens

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/check/

 

 It will probably be  easy once they get the bugs worked out  to apply online  like the ones for  other  Countries with electronic Visas

[yorkiemomjn]

6 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

So does almost 70% of the american public....   California, Nevada are really thankful for all the extra help the President and staff team are providing....  I am.   Politics has no place in a pandemic...we all are one  or should be

Amen!   I am thankful, too!  I am so tired of politics!