NEED A FAIR REFUND POLICY DUE TO VIRUS

[ozzicruiser]

41 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

I have seen that letter before.  It was designed to be sent to any Ponant customer affected, no big secret.  You have obviously chosen to read into it what you already believe.  I interpret it the opposite way:  they are in good financial position and plan to stay that way by not hemorraghing cash refunds.  Coming out of this without a massive debt load is a good thing [debt was the main factor that sank Renaissance Cruises after 9/11].

Jazzbeau, good for you that you see it as a positive but in my view if a company can't refund me my money because they've already spent it, they're in financial trouble. 

 

[samiam1]

2 hours ago, ozzicruiser said:

Jazzbeau, good for you that you see it as a positive but in my view if a company can't refund me my money because they've already spent it, they're in financial trouble. 

 

 

The other possibility is no one will lend them money at a favorable rate; Carnival and RCL have lots of assets if they default on those loans and bonds.  France is in pretty bad shape right now, right up there with Spain and Italy.

[ozzicruiser]

27 minutes ago, samiam1 said:

 

The other possibility is no one will lend them money at a favorable rate; Carnival and RCL have lots of assets if they default on those loans and bonds.  France is in pretty bad shape right now, right up there with Spain and Italy

 

If a company can't find a lender at a favorable rate it's because they are  high risk. 

I'm glad I cancelled before paying the balance. If they collapse at least I've only lost my deposit which will still hurt my hip pocket. 

[jland]

On 3/25/2020 at 11:21 AM, jland said:

We have to pay for our cruise April 13th, $42000 or lose our deposit. Ponant will not defer payment date, I do not want a refund, just a delay. This would have been our first Ponant cruise. We will never book with them again. I do not trust them with any more of our money and as for a FCC it relies on Ponant remaining in business. With the crap way they have treated customers who have a current booking, I doubt strongly that they will.

As I posted the above I thought it only fair that I should post the outcome. We have been given until June 28th to pay our final payment. To defer payment was all we wanted, so we are satisfied. Whether the cruise will go ahead only time will tell, at least we have some breathing space.

[DSmith91]

6 hours ago, jland said:

As I posted the above I thought it only fair that I should post the outcome. We have been given until June 28th to pay our final payment. To defer payment was all we wanted, so we are satisfied. Whether the cruise will go ahead only time will tell, at least we have some breathing space.

Hi Jland

That's great news. An extra 2 months grace is fair, I think.  At least you will know more about the state of the travel industry the nearer you get to your cruise.

When is your cruise due to leave?  I want to arm myself with as much information as I can before they ask me for my £7000.

[jland]

13 hours ago, DSmith91 said:

Hi Jland

That's great news. An extra 2 months grace is fair, I think.  At least you will know more about the state of the travel industry the nearer you get to your cruise.

When is your cruise due to leave?  I want to arm myself with as much information as I can before they ask me for my £7000.

Hi DSmith, yes we think 2 months grace is very fair. We got what we wanted. Our cruise is due to leave on 28/8/2020. The original final payment was 13/4/2020 we worried about paying $42000 so early especially for a cruise we do not think will happen.

[DSmith91]

3 minutes ago, jland said:

Hi DSmith, yes we think 2 months grace is very fair. We got what we wanted. Our cruise is due to leave on 28/8/2020. The original final payment was 13/4/2020 we worried about paying $42000 so early especially for a cruise we do not think will happen.

Thanks Jland.  That's useful information.  I'll try to put off our final payment till 2 months before departure instead of 3.

Which cruise are you doing?  We hope to do The Kimberly for 10 nights and do a 2 month Australia holiday afterwards, so it's not just the cruise we're dealing with if we cancel. It's a whole load of hotel accommodation we've already booked.

[jland]

1 hour ago, DSmith91 said:

Thanks Jland.  That's useful information.  I'll try to put off our final payment till 2 months before departure instead of 3.

Which cruise are you doing?  We hope to do The Kimberly for 10 nights and do a 2 month Australia holiday afterwards, so it's not just the cruise we're dealing with if we cancel. It's a whole load of hotel accommodation we've already booked.

We are doing the northwest passage cruise, Greenland to Nome. This cruise only goes once a year. We visit such remote communities I really cannot see the cruise going ahead with this virus scare. Wish you luck getting your final payment delayed.

[DSmith91]

An update on final balance payment dates.  I sent Ponant a message yesterday through their website community page asking about a delay in paying our final balance.  We are scheduled to pay £7000,  90 days prior to departure but I had read they were relaxing this by 30 days.  They have come back to me and said that under the current circumstances the are delaying final payments till 30 days prior to cruising.  I'm happy with that as it was better than I was hoping for.

 

[samiam1]

There are going to be massive inquests as to the cruise industry in general.  Ponant has been lucky to avoid thse nightmares that continue to unfold but I would question business at usual resuming this Summer:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/four-dead-on-carnival-cruise-ship-amid-new-coronavirus-outbreak-aboard.html

 

[resistk]

Federal Maritime Commission  - Office of Consumer Affairs and Dispute Resolution Services (CADRS) can help resolve disputes with cruise lines that do business in the US like Ponant USA LLC.

 

https://www.fmc.gov/databases-services/consumer-affairs-dispute-resolution-services/

 

"FMC requires cruise lines to have a bond or other financial surety available to refund passenger deposits if the cruise line fails to provide a scheduled cruise (performance) or for death or injury on a voyage (casualty). This requirement applies to cruise lines that embark from a U.S. port and have at least 50 berth accommodations."

 

Ponant uses US ports - April 25 was supposed to be Miami to Lisbon.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by resistk

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, resistk said:

Federal Maritime Commission  - Office of Consumer Affairs and Dispute Resolution Services (CADRS) can help resolve disputes with cruise lines that do business in the US like Ponant USA LLC.

 

https://www.fmc.gov/databases-services/consumer-affairs-dispute-resolution-services/

 

"FMC requires cruise lines to have a bond or other financial surety available to refund passenger deposits if the cruise line fails to provide a scheduled cruise (performance) or for death or injury on a voyage (casualty). This requirement applies to cruise lines that embark from a U.S. port and have at least 50 berth accommodations."

 

Ponant uses US ports - April 25 was supposed to be Miami to Lisbon.

 

So – maybe never again.  They don't need US ports.  Their Caribbean cruises are generally round trip from French islands.

 

The point is:  there are consequences to every action.  [Newton]

[resistk]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

So – maybe never again.  They don't need US ports.  Their Caribbean cruises are generally round trip from French islands.

 

The point is:  there are consequences to every action.  [Newton]

 

Both Ponant and Paul Guaguin are parties to the Agreement between CLIA and FMC.  If they want to do business in the US, they have to accept FMC jurisdiction apparently.

Ponant Agreement 010071-046.pdf

[Host Jazzbeau]

And they have to give money back when they cancel, per their agreement.  Anybody get it yet?  As they used to say in the early 1940's: "don't you know there's a war on?"

[loveislandlife]

Has anyone been successful in getting a refund from Ponant for cruise that was canceled?

[luxury-lizard]

No not me but I pretty much accepted that their credit-only policy was inflexible. As long as I get to use this I am satisfied (as opposed to totally happy). My concerns are:-

 

• Ponant stays solvant
• Cruising in general become safe and practical in a post Covid world (ie borders are open, airlines are flying) within the time limit of the credit (end 2021)
• Ponant doesn't do anything "unfair" - e.g.. limit cruises and/or number of passengers per cruise using their credit (as opposed to new bookings)

[resistk]

1 hour ago, loveislandlife said:

Has anyone been successful in getting a refund from Ponant for cruise that was canceled?

 

Credit card temporarily credited back my final payment.

[resistk]

1 hour ago, luxury-lizard said:

No not me but I pretty much accepted that their credit-only policy was inflexible. As long as I get to use this I am satisfied (as opposed to totally happy). My concerns are:-

 

• Ponant stays solvant
• Cruising in general become safe and practical in a post Covid world (ie borders are open, airlines are flying) within the time limit of the credit (end 2021)
• Ponant doesn't do anything "unfair" - e.g.. limit cruises and/or number of passengers per cruise using their credit (as opposed to new bookings)

 

That sure is a lot of "ifs" for a company that put in their terms and conditions that passengers are entitled to a refund and then decided otherwise.

 

"France has neither winter, nor summer, nor morals. France is miserable because
it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in
France." --Mark Twain

 

 

[parischris]

There is a great piece of functionality in the Boards called 'Ignore User'. This allows you to specify users that you find objectionable and mute them out of the board posts, messages etc. Click on your user name on the top right of the screen, and you'll find 'Ignored Users' in the drop down list. 

 

I'm only interested in constructive posts - so feel free to add me to your 'Ignored Users' list at any time - I'm developing quite a list myself at the moment to filter out the faux outrage.

 

[jland]

2 hours ago, parischris said:

There is a great piece of functionality in the Boards called 'Ignore User'. This allows you to specify users that you find objectionable and mute them out of the board posts, messages etc. Click on your user name on the top right of the screen, and you'll find 'Ignored Users' in the drop down list. 

 

I'm only interested in constructive posts - so feel free to add me to your 'Ignored Users' list at any time - I'm developing quite a list myself at the moment to filter out the faux outrage.

 

What is the point of the above post? What has the post got to do with Ponant? It is a general comment, not sure why the poster wants us to know his private views. Who cares how many people he has on “ignore poster”. Hope I am on his list. If I could be bothered I would report the post as it is totally irrelevant.

[parischris]

1 minute ago, jland said:

What is the point of the above post? What has the post got to do with Ponant? It is a general comment, not sure why the poster wants us to know his private views. Who cares how many people he has on “ignore poster”. Hope I am on his list. If I could be bothered I would report the post as it is totally irrelevant.

It has as much to do with Ponant  as quoting Mark Twain (not your quote) - in an offensive slur against all French people. You weren't on the 'ignored user' list, but congratulations, you've achieved something for the day!

[jonikal]

10 hours ago, luxury-lizard said:

No not me but I pretty much accepted that their credit-only policy was inflexible. As long as I get to use this I am satisfied (as opposed to totally happy). My concerns are:-

 

• Ponant stays solvant
• Cruising in general become safe and practical in a post Covid world (ie borders are open, airlines are flying) within the time limit of the credit (end 2021)
• Ponant doesn't do anything "unfair" - e.g.. limit cruises and/or number of passengers per cruise using their credit (as opposed to new bookings)

 

Hopefully there will be a vaccine available within that 2021 time limit for credit.  

 

It will also be interesting to see whether Ponant puts an age limit on passengers.  If they do, that would eliminate significant portion of their revenue given their passenger demographic.

 

 

[Seabiscuit68]

I'm not satisfied with a credit.  Ponant has ceased operations indefinitely.  I was advised by Ponant that they may start operations again in late 2020 or 2021.  I will not be able to use the credit due to financial circumstances.  We are self-employed and will not have the funds for a vacation this year or probably next.   Not to mention that the timing of Ponant's possible restart corresponds to the expected second wave of COVID.  The fact of the matter is that Ponant sales contract PROVIDES FOR A REFUND if they cancel the cruise.   If there are others that are happy with the credit and are in better financial circumstances then that is their choice.  Our choice is a refund.   

 

While Ponant has indicated that they are choosing to not take loans, I think it is important to remember that Ponant is owned by the family holding company of billionaire Francois Henri Pinault.   It isn't even a public company.    The pandemic has very much brought to light those companies with values and integrity. Ponant is not one of them.   To me Ponant is no different than those large public companies such as Ruth Chris, Shake Shack that took the millions of dollars of loans meant for small businesses.  Ponant is withholding our money to support the company rather than having its billionaire owner backstop the cruise line.  I will think very carefully about my purchases in a post pandemic world and it will not include those wealthy companies  that acted to the detriment of those who needed the funds.   I will also make sure that I do not do business with any company that does not have its contract subject to the laws of the USA.  

[loveislandlife]

I’m not either. I just don’t know what else can be done at this point. The ‘force majeure’ language in the contract seems like their loophole out of the refunds. 

[DSmith91]

I hadn't realised that Ponant could change their T&C's after purchase.  I thought the T&C's that were in place when we purchased our cruise would still stand.  Obviously not.