Cancelling Cruises because of the C word

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

Because you are living together in a confined area. The air conditioning system is an incubator for a virus. Ports around the world are already refusing to allow ships to dock when there is sickness on board. France has implemented this measure for a reason, they’re unlikely to turn a blind eye to cruise ships.

I don’t know an aircraft that carries 5000 people. 

But 100,000 + people arriving daily on aircraft with  contained air conditioning systems is exactly the same scenario. 

[2BACRUISER]

I just saw on another page that Celebrity and Royal have reduced final payment days to 60 rather than 90 in hope it will stop people cancelling now giving another month to see how things pan out. 🤔

Ps the new digger looks like new been polished within an inch of its life, new window wiper and an oil change, DH is in love🙄🙈

Edited February 29, 2020 by 2BACRUISER

[emam]

Cruise Line International statement here

 

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2020/february/clia-statement-on-2019-novel-coronavirus-outbreak

[janny444]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But 100,000 + people arriving daily on aircraft with  contained air conditioning systems is exactly the same scenario. 

I think it is all a matter of trying to contain and even though 100,000 people arrive daily they are all on different aircraft and not within close proximity of each other ....maybe 400 tops could possibly become infected at one time. On a cruise ship a few thousand all within close proximity...sharing all the facilities on the ship....cooped up together for at least a week.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

10 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But 100,000 + people arriving daily on aircraft with  contained air conditioning systems is exactly the same scenario. 

Google, cruise ship denied entry and you’ll get a flavour of the current thinking of port authorities.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

17 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But 100,000 + people arriving daily on aircraft with  contained air conditioning systems is exactly the same scenario. 

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/health/cruise-stranded-by-virus-fears-ends-with-roses-in-cambodia/2216743/

[emam]

I have just upgraded my travel insurance to include travel disruption and cruise cover plus. You can do so if there haven't been any government restrictions on travel to where you are going yet.

 

If the government now stop travel to places, hopefully I will be covered to get my money back.

 

Another link for you.

 

https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and-issues/topics-and-issues/coronavirus-qa/

Edited February 29, 2020 by emam
To add link.

[staygulf]

38 minutes ago, emam said:

I have just upgraded my travel insurance to include travel disruption and cruise cover plus. You can do so if there haven't been any government restrictions on travel to where you are going yet.

 

If the government now stop travel to places, hopefully I will be covered to get my money back.

 

Another link for you.

 

https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and-issues/topics-and-issues/coronavirus-qa/

Totally unnecessary. If travel is banned the holiday package will not be performed and you would get a full refund. Insurance doesn’t enter the equation. 

[mercury7289]

1 hour ago, 2BACRUISER said:

I just saw on another page that Celebrity and Royal have reduced final payment days to 60 rather than 90 in hope it will stop people cancelling now giving another month to see how things pan out. 🤔

Ps the new digger looks like new been polished within an inch of its life, new window wiper and an oil change, DH is in love🙄🙈

WoW! Did you do all that whilst he was down the pub?

[DamianG]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

A very good point - and it will overrride the terms and conditions, meaning that P&O will have to refund - though you might have to argue it out with them by quoting the legislation below:

 

The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018

 

Termination of the package travel contract by the organiser

13.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

 

(2) Paragraph (3) applies where—

 

(a)the number of persons enrolled for the package is smaller than the minimum number stated in the contract and the organiser notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract within the period fixed in the contract but not later than—
(i)in the case of trips lasting more than 6 days, 20 days before the start of the package;
(ii)in the case of trips lasting between 2 and 6 days, 7 days before the start of the package;
(iii)in the case of trips lasting less than 2 days, 48 hours before the start of the package; or

(b)the organiser is prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances and notifies the traveller of the termination of the contract without undue delay before the start of the package.

(3) The organiser—

(a)may terminate the package travel contract and provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package;
(b)is not liable for additional compensation.

 

So P&O won't be able to refuse refunds, and that's probably why Saga are already offering refunds - they know they have to, but P&O are (for now) hoping they can get away with it.

 

Thanks staygulf and Harry for these posts.

We're due to pay £5k in April for our July cruise so although we are not in an immediate predicament like others (whom I have the greatest of sympathy for) it is still on my mind and I have been following this thread with great interest.

P&O/Carnival's inertia on this matter is massively disappointing but sadly not that surprising. I appreciate that they have a business to run, but play their cards wrongly on this one and they are going to lose a lot of loyal customers.

I am a P&O fan/supporter/defender/advocate (pick any description you like) but believe me if we turned up at Southampton and one of our party was refused boarding with zero refund then we would walk away and never sail with them again. Come to think of it, even if we had to fight for a refund and it was successful I would still walk away. 

I am now more comfortable paying up in April with the knowledge that if we don't sail the money is not written-off. I sincerely hope that the company publicly states a similar arrangement to Saga sooner rather than later.

Edited February 29, 2020 by DamianG

[Aqueous]

MSC Cruises added that the 4,580 guests onboard will 'receive a 100 percent refund of their cruise fare due to the disruptive nature of their vacation. This is from a article in the Daily Mail online today. The ship was not allowed to be to dock in Jamaica and the Cayman Islands due to the fear that some passengers were unwell also a couple of passengers turned on some of the crew. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8059197/Cruise-ship-crew-pepper-spray-brawling-passengers-feared-mutiny.html

[staygulf]

It seems to be the case that if you are on a cruise which is disrupted because of Covid 19 then you get a refund plus 100% FCC. If the cruise is cancelled prior to sail date you get a refund plus 25% or 50% FCC depending upon how near to sail date you are. This is being adopted by other lines.  Our Asian cruise was cancelled 2 months before sail date and we got 25% credit on Princess.  As PANDO and Princess are both owned by Carnival I expect that PANDO will follow suit. 

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

4 minutes ago, staygulf said:

It seems to be the case that if you are on a cruise which is disrupted because of Covid 19 then you get a refund plus 100% FCC. If the cruise is cancelled prior to sail date you get a refund plus 25% or 50% FCC depending upon how near to sail date you are. This is being adopted by other lines.  Our Asian cruise was cancelled 2 months before sail date and we got 25% credit on Princess.  As PANDO and Princess are both owned by Carnival I expect that PANDO will follow suit. 

Don’t hold your breath, P&O are not known for their generosity or even fairness, when the chips  are down.

[staygulf]

Just now, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

Don’t hold your breath, P&O are not known for their generosity or even fairness, when the chips  are down.

But it will be Carnival making the decisions. They are only a trading division of Carnival. . 

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

9 minutes ago, staygulf said:

But it will be Carnival making the decisions. They are only a trading division of Carnival. . 

In an ideal world you’re right, but Southampton will be dealing with this. They can get away with a lot more than Princess can with the American clientele.

[Harry Peterson]

28 minutes ago, staygulf said:

But it will be Carnival making the decisions. They are only a trading division of Carnival. . 

You're absolutely right on the legal point - refunds are due under EU law, as adopted by the UK for now, but P&O have a tricky habit of playing fast and loose with their customers and conveniently ignoring the law until they're forcibly reminded of their obligations by a clear and reasoned argument, backed up by a willingness to take a case through the small claims procedure.  At that point they'll back off and offer to settle.

 

Other Carnival companies don't seem to take this approach, and I can only assume that Carnival view their primarily British P&O customers as suckers and prepared to accept whatever crumbs, if any, they deign to offer.  You have to fight P&O to get refunds that other shipping lines, such as Saga, are offering as of right.  The law is clear, but P&O will often ignore it on the basis that very few people will be able to mount a successful challenge.  The British, they seem to feel, will put up with anything.

[jh1809]

11 hours ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

It appears to me that companies are now drawing their ‘battle lines’ to protect themselves and their profits. I have just been Looking at travel insurance and this is a statement from one of them:

Travel insurance protects against unexpected events. If you buy a policy for a destination where an outbreak has been reported or regulatory advice is already in place, then coronavirus claims will not be considered.
 

bearing in mind that Dianond Princess fits that criteria, does that mean that future passengers will not be insured? Will insurance companies use this amended policy for all cruises? So many unknowns and no help or guidance being provided.

I think the important word there is "already". When the passengers on the Diamond Princess booked their cruise, an outbreak had not been reported so it was indeed an "unexpected event".  So I think they would be covered. Admittedly that statement isn't as clear as it could have been. 

[staygulf]

6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

You're absolutely right on the legal point - refunds are due under EU law, as adopted by the UK for now, but P&O have a tricky habit of playing fast and loose with their customers and conveniently ignoring the law until they're forcibly reminded of their obligations by a clear and reasoned argument, backed up by a willingness to take a case through the small claims procedure.  At that point they'll back off and offer to settle.

 

Other Carnival companies don't seem to take this approach, and I can only assume that Carnival view their primarily British P&O customers as suckers and prepared to accept whatever crumbs, if any, they deign to offer.  You have to fight P&O to get refunds that other shipping lines, such as Saga, are offering as of right.  The law is clear, but P&O will often ignore it on the basis that very few people will be able to mount a successful challenge.  The British, they seem to feel, will put up with anything.

I take your point. I had to cancel a cruise for 10 people on Azura a few years back and it was a year before sail date. They refused to refund my deposit which was around £1500 which they said was non refundable even though they had plenty of time to resell the cabins. I pointed out that this was totally against the spirit of the Consumer Rights Act and threatens to let a judge decide. They backed down and I got a refund

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

11 minutes ago, jh1809 said:

I think the important word there is "already". When the passengers on the Diamond Princess booked their cruise, an outbreak had not been reported so it was indeed an "unexpected event".  So I think they would be covered. Admittedly that statement isn't as clear as it could have been. 

Perhaps I could have worded it better. My point is, it is now common knowledge that the Diamond Princess has been infected with Coronavirus. If I now book a cruise on that ship, even after it’s been deep cleaned and I catch the virus, I assume I would not be covered.

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, staygulf said:

I take your point. I had to cancel a cruise for 10 people on Azura a few years back and it was a year before sail date. They refused to refund my deposit which was around £1500 which they said was non refundable even though they had plenty of time to resell the cabins. I pointed out that this was totally against the spirit of the Consumer Rights Act and threatens to let a judge decide. They backed down and I got a refund

Kindred spirits! I've had an almost identical experience over a 'lost' deposit. Again using CRA 2015. They haven't got a leg to stand on when there's time to resell, often at a higher price, they know that, and the last thing they want is an adverse court decision.  So they settle  - but only when someone's aware that their blessed terms and conditions aren't always enforceable. 

[staygulf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Kindred spirits! I've had an almost identical experience over a 'lost' deposit. Again using CRA 2015. They haven't got a leg to stand on when there's time to resell, often at a higher price, they know that, and the last thing they want is an adverse court decision.  So they settle  - but only when someone's aware that their blessed terms and conditions aren't always enforceable. 

We could be twins!

[staygulf]

6 minutes ago, PRINCESSTHE BEST said:

Perhaps I could have worded it better. My point is, it is now common knowledge that the Diamond Princess has been infected with Coronavirus. If I now book a cruise on that ship, even after it’s been deep cleaned and I catch the virus, I assume I would not be covered.

That can’t be right. They’d never be able to sail the ship again if that were so. 

[AndyMichelle]

Just now, staygulf said:

We could be twins!

Oh dear, that's a worry... 2 Harry's... 😊

 

Only kidding Harry❤️

 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

17 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Oh dear, that's a worry... 2 Harry's... 😊

 

Only kidding Harry❤️

 

Andy 

Broad shoulders, Andy.  Hope you've had a bit of reassurance from the twins about not losing money to P&O though. 😄

 

Harry 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Harry Peterson

[AndyMichelle]

12 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Broad shoulders, Andy.  Hope you've had a bit of reassurance from the twins about not losing money to P&O though. 😄

 

Harry 

Yes thank you Harry. 

As always, good advice much appreciated. 

The strange thing is, I still really want to go, despite all the scares, so my wish is it will all blow over quickly and I get upgraded to a suite... 

Andy