Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[yorky]

5 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Of course bookings are up.... people have future cruise credits coming out the ying-yang.  What would be more interesting is the amount of hard cash being put down on new bookings.

If everything I’ve read is correct there has been a lot of hard cash put down on new bookings. Whether some who are predicting the death of cruising chose to believe it though is of course their perogative.

[Fouremco]

7 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Of course bookings are up.... people have future cruise credits coming out the ying-yang.  What would be more interesting is the amount of hard cash being put down on new bookings.

As FCCs can't be used for deposits, all of these booking are pulling in hard cash.

[ABoatNerd]

Marketing people love and worship (we did every morning in the office) the "Obedient Consumer". We had many signs with the words "Obedient Consumer" on them all over the office.

 

For those booking, Of course, they have a potentially worthless FCC. Reasonable consumers do not advance big $ to corporations ever. Cash is King/Queen.

 

These are the same corporations that were very busy degrading the cruise product while charging more.  And yet, people kept booking cruises. "Obedient consumers".  I loved them for 37 work years.

 

Any consumer needs to make decisions that benefit them, not businesses. Those who fail to practice this have consequences.

 

 

[d9704011]

48 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

As FCCs can't be used for deposits, all of these booking are pulling in hard cash.

I understand that.  A portion of the new booking (deposit) requires cash.  Some of them will be refundable, some won’t.  My guess is that the majority of the cost of the cruise is going to be funded using FCCs and I was not clear on that in my original comment.

 

An edit.... BTW, don’t think I’m some sort of ‘cruise denier’; I have two Celebrity cruises on the books that I’m looking forward to taking when things are colder again.

Edited April 30, 2020 by d9704011

[Ride-The-Waves]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Doctor's note requirement for 70+ has been removed!😀

Makes everything sooo much safer!  Just change the CLIA recommendation for the benefit of cruise lines and everyone is cured.  Wow!  Ridiculous.  As some have stated, just makes it easier for cruise lines to issue worthless FCCs with a "clear" conscious.  Does nothing, zippo, nada for the cruiser.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Ride-The-Waves

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I understand that.  A portion of the new booking (deposit) requires cash.  Some of them will be refundable, some won’t.  My guess is that the majority of the cost of the cruise is going to be funded using FCCs.

When you said "hard cash being put down", I took that to mean as in downpayment or deposit, not the actual fare. On that I agree, there will be many using FCCs, particularly by those who cancelled and had no refund option. At this point, it's less clear to me what percentage of passengers who had the option of 125% FCC or a refund actually chose FCC.  Nevertheless, the longer Celebrity fails to sail and the more that FCCs as well as refunds are issued, the more that future sailings will be paid using FCCs.

[kathy49]

1 hour ago, travelordie said:

You are very much in the minority.  Cruise sales for 2021 are up 40% when compared with cruise sales for 2019.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/492047-more-people-are-booking-cruises-for-2021-compared-to-2019-despite

their books for 2021 probably look good because everything for 2020 is gone or people have moved the booking to 2021. I have to wonder how much on the books are brand new bookings?

[hcat]

If we self disclose conditions treated with meds, will we be re screened or perhaps  be denied at the pier?

[kathy49]

4 minutes ago, hcat said:

If we self disclose conditions treated with meds, will we be re screened or perhaps  be denied at the pier?

who knows but self reporting is not going to work...if someone wants to cruise they will not report honestly...some will but many will not....

[travelordie]

4 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Of course bookings are up.... people have future cruise credits coming out the ying-yang.  What would be more interesting is the amount of hard cash being put down on new bookings.

Only 11% of the 2021 bookings are from people whose 2020 cruise was cancelled or who chose to cancel their 2020 cruise.  Yet bookings for 2021 are up by 40% from 2019.  Both the 11% and 40% figures appeared in the link I provided previously:

 

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/492047-more-people-are-booking-cruises-for-2021-compared-to-2019-despite

 

All long time cruisers that I know personally are planning to resume cruising as soon as conditions permit.  I personally have put down deposits for three cruises to be taken in 2020 and 2021.  If you look closely at the websites

of various cruise lines you will see that there is no availability in many stateroom categories.  Furthermore, prices are not dropping significantly if at all.  My own travel agent is pleasantly surprised by how busy she is selling 2021 cruises.

[travelordie]

5 hours ago, yorky said:

If everything I’ve read is correct there has been a lot of hard cash put down on new bookings. Whether some who are predicting the death of cruising chose to believe it though is of course their perogative.

I totally agree and believe that those who are predicting the demise of the cruise industry are merely projecting their personal feelings on to others are keen to resume cruising.  If anyone has any evidence or data to suggest that cruise sales are down for either 2021 or 2022, perhaps they could post it.

[az_tchr]

6 minutes ago, travelordie said:

Only 11% of the 2021 bookings are from people whose 2020 cruise was cancelled or who chose to cancel their 2020 cruise.  Yet bookings for 2021 are up by 40% from 2019.  Both the 11% and 40% figures appeared in the link I provided previously:

 

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/492047-more-people-are-booking-cruises-for-2021-compared-to-2019-despite

 

All long time cruisers that I know personally are planning to resume cruising as soon as conditions permit.  I personally have put down deposits for three cruises to be taken in 2020 and 2021.  If you look closely at the websites

of various cruise lines you will see that there is no availability in many stateroom categories.  Furthermore, prices are not dropping significantly if at all.  My own travel agent is pleasantly surprised by how busy she is selling 2021 cruises.

I would suggest that the increased bookings mean little.  Reasons are-

 

With thousands or cruises cancelled and more coming - people will move to 2021.

 

My TA said she is getting lots of "placeholder" bookings for 2021.  With only a refundable deposit for group space one can lock in prices with no real obligations until final payment - can use FCCs.

 

We booked 3 cruises this coming spring.  Might go on one depending on COVID.  Normally would have just booked the one we really wanted.

 

People are booking in the expectation that if cruises are cancelled until fall that the FCCs from Cruise with Confidence will force demand for next year.

 

The big questions are when will cruising actually resume?  The steps were outlined on Cruise hive and require about 90-120 days.  Need ports and air travel to open.  Hire and get staff back on ships and train the staff to work together.  Difficult task that likely will be complicated by some areas staying closed longer.

 

Thus, when does demand look like if cruising resumes in August?  October?  December?  Hmmmm.

[sunonfire]

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5322/

[travelordie]

3 hours ago, kathy49 said:

their books for 2021 probably look good because everything for 2020 is gone or people have moved the booking to 2021. I have to wonder how much on the books are brand new bookings?

Good question but I don't think those numbers are yet available and/or have been published.  I do know that even among domestic cruise lines which sail only within the US, passenger counts for 2021 are 25% ahead of 2019:

 

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/domestic-bookings-rise-as-cruisers-seek-to-support-american-business.html

 

I think all indicators suggest that the cruise industry will survive.   Today alone more than 21,000,000 shares of RCL paying a dividend of 6.6% sold on the NYSE.  It seems that investors are more optimistic than some cruisers.

 

 

[hcat]

1 hour ago, sunonfire said:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5322/

 

Thanks for posting...looks like  my questions  will remain unanswered until the new ""rules are  announced"

 

 If we self disclose conditions that are  under control by  treatment with meds( diabetes, high blood pressure, afib,)  will we be re screened  and  perhaps  be denied at the pier!   

 

  Will there be specific " no go" conditions regardless of age?   

[rshayes689]

On 3/11/2020 at 4:15 PM, Orator said:

I'm over 70 and don't see this as age discrimination. Just simple profiling based on available data. I absolutely agree that refunds should go back to your card. You didn't cancel, you were cancelled and to me there is a difference.

In NC 40% aged between 25 and 49 has died, 27% were between 50 to 64 and 23% were 65+ group. Now you tell me if this is not age discrimination. There are people of all ages that could have any kind of underlying condition that could compromise their health but yet they choose to pinpoint one age group. If they would ever choose to do this at some point they should expect a lot of lawsuits. If they require a dr note for one it should be for all. Then the cruise industry would sink. But as of April 29th they have decided against this because the cruisers started fussing about it.

 

[rshayes689]

12 hours ago, yorky said:

Surely the  full refund or 125% FCC applies to everyone regardless of age ? Did many not have a choice regardless of the fit note.

If a FCC can't be used because a dr. Will not sign because of liability what use is it?

[pistnbroke]

The cruise industry has today announced that there will be no Doctors note required for those over 70.

[acesneights99]

Travel insurance probably won't cover COVID-19, as it is a known peril.

[drakes2]

7 hours ago, acesneights99 said:

Travel insurance probably won't cover COVID-19, as it is a known peril.

It's becoming more and more difficult to get travel insurance to cover anything. I have it with my Visa card and they will not cover if credits are being offered. They are no better than the cruiselines.  Only in business to make money. 

[hcat]

8 hours ago, pistnbroke said:

The cruise industry has today announced that there will be no Doctors note required for those over 70.

 

But details of the health  screening process are not yet announced..

WiIl they have liberal parameters   or be quite strict.......no one will want to be left behind at the pier!  Same health questionaire as in the past or a new one?

Likely there will  be  a release  form.....

 

We   wont book anything new til we are sure we are welcome to board!

[Ride-The-Waves]

15 hours ago, az_tchr said:

I would suggest that the increased bookings mean little.  Reasons are-

 

With thousands or cruises cancelled and more coming - people will move to 2021.

 

My TA said she is getting lots of "placeholder" bookings for 2021.  With only a refundable deposit for group space one can lock in prices with no real obligations until final payment - can use FCCs.

 

We booked 3 cruises this coming spring.  Might go on one depending on COVID.  Normally would have just booked the one we really wanted.

 

People are booking in the expectation that if cruises are cancelled until fall that the FCCs from Cruise with Confidence will force demand for next year.

 

The big questions are when will cruising actually resume?  The steps were outlined on Cruise hive and require about 90-120 days.  Need ports and air travel to open.  Hire and get staff back on ships and train the staff to work together.  Difficult task that likely will be complicated by some areas staying closed longer.

 

Thus, when does demand look like if cruising resumes in August?  October?  December?  Hmmmm.

Agree.  If you look at the sources for the statistics in the link they are all cruise industry related.  Not a reliable independent source.

 

Cruising in some form will in all likelihood be back.  Will not be the same as it was three month ago.  Many countries/ports will not be favorable to thousands of people roaming around without some form of health certification.  

 

Schedules will be limited and likely prices will increase.  Ships will be sailing at less than full capacity and on restricted itineraries.  Smaller ships may make a resurgence.

[hcat]

Not sure if this  fits here or on the "no more  fit to cruise note needed thread"..

 

This is a link to a  not a very upbeat article  about diabetics and elevated  blood sugar  overall that was in our local paper online today.

 

Makes me want to hideout with my mask, gloves and  antibacterial handwash .  If ultimately proven correct.  It  is quite sobering.

 

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/diabetes-covid-19-1.44285350

[Ride-The-Waves]

15 hours ago, hcat said:

Not sure if this  fits here or on the "no more  fit to cruise note needed thread"..

 

This is a link to a  not a very upbeat article  about diabetics and elevated  blood sugar  overall that was in our local paper online today.

 

Makes me want to hideout with my mask, gloves and  antibacterial handwash .  If ultimately proven correct.  It  is quite sobering.

 

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/diabetes-covid-19-1.44285350

Comprehensive article - thanks for sharing.  It really depicts the threat and confirms that finding a cure, or even a mitigation, is extremely difficult and will take some time.  To me it also shows that we will not be cruising as usual until this pandemic is corralled in some fashion.  Countries/ports will not want cruise ships visiting, cruise lines will struggle to get itineraries and even crews confirmed, and cruising using social distancing criteria is a nonstarter in a confined space.  Scary!

[zap99]

23 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Agree.  If you look at the sources for the statistics in the link they are all cruise industry related.  Not a reliable independent source.

 

Cruising in some form will in all likelihood be back.  Will not be the same as it was three month ago.  Many countries/ports will not be favorable to thousands of people roaming around without some form of health certification.  

 

Schedules will be limited and likely prices will increase.  Ships will be sailing at less than full capacity and on restricted itineraries.  Smaller ships may make a resurgence.

I'm not an expert, but would guess that the internal volume of a  ship divided by the number of passengers, or volume per passenger is similar for both large and small ships. So both will need to reduce number of passengers by the same %.