Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[SHIP TRAVELER]

The wording is confusing, does diabetes that is controlled by oral meds and high blood pressure that is controlled by meds exclude you.  Does using a CPAPmachine mean you have pulmonary disease.  Does having stage one ovarian cancer ten years ago before a successful hysterectomy  with no chemo or radiation exclude you.

 

These are quiet common ailments in the over 70 crowd that that do not effect their usual everyday life and that would not be considered disabilities by most definitions.  There is also the fact that no one that is not sick right now would want to go to a Doctors office to waste his time on a med evaluation during a contagious pandemic.

[Forky]

4 hours ago, Snickersbockerglory said:

I'm really confused because the travel advisory I see says it is a full refund? 

 

Cunard UK  is paying out in Full to the over 70's  and for  people with pre-existing medical conditions (that is me) so not credit vouchers towards a new cruise … I am  in middle of getting my May Transatlantic Return Crossing cancelled … have the same crossing booked for 1st Dec but shall leave that for the moment and see how the next few months go. 

[Mr&MrsBee]

Losing my confidence in Celebrity.  I guess I have to accept the fact I have lost $5000 and cannot cruise as wife and I have controlled type 2 diabetes. Funny have X is changing the rules after 10 years of sailing on X with no  problems

[airato]

Have just received an email from Celebrity saying our cruise on the Solstice out of Sydney next Friday has been cancelled.

 

"Due to continued port closures and global travel restrictions, as well as to help ensure the continued safety of our guests and crew, we are temporarily suspending all cruising operations globally beginning tomorrow, March 15^th, and will resume sailing again on Saturday, April 11^th.  This includes the voyage you are currently scheduled to sail.  Sailings that are already underway will continue as scheduled, until further notice."

 

"In order to compensate you for this cancellation, all booked guests will automatically receive a 125% Future Cruise Credit (FCC) valid until December 31^st, 2021.  Should you prefer a 100% refund to your original method of payment you may contact us anytime up until the expiration date of your FCC.  To avoid waiting on the phone to cancel, please click here and we will get the process started for you."

[Ride-The-Waves]

11 hours ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

Then, if they change the policy after you pay, then they should refund your money, not issue a credit that you would probably never be able to use before their determined expiration. That's theft.

Agree.  They should.  No question.

[bubbachief]

Has anyone over 70 tried to get their doctors ok to travel using the Celebrity form? If so, what was the result?

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, bubbachief said:

Has anyone over 70 tried to get their doctors ok to travel using the Celebrity form? If so, what was the result?

As the use of the form has only just been introduced and all of Celebrity's cruises have been cancelled for the next 3 weeks or so, I doubt that anyone would had the opportunity to try using it.

[grandgeezer]

2 hours ago, bubbachief said:

Has anyone over 70 tried to get their doctors ok to travel using the Celebrity form? If so, what was the result?

I was at my family doctor last week and I asked him if he would sign it. He said no problem but he would have to do a cursory exam. All that form says that there was no sign of a problem, at the time of the exam, what might happen after that, he has no control of. He knows about the other categories asked about,like some preexisting conditions. My doctor is very meticulous with his paperwork and copies are sent to the insurance company, for billing purposes, so there is a paper trail. 

I'm not sure I'd do it if it became the new norm.

 

[39august]

Would someone either post a connection to this form or direct me to where I can find and copy it, please?  TIA. 

[Fouremco]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:08 AM, SHIP TRAVELER said:

The wording is confusing, does diabetes that is controlled by oral meds and high blood pressure that is controlled by meds exclude you.  Does using a CPAPmachine mean you have pulmonary disease.  Does having stage one ovarian cancer ten years ago before a successful hysterectomy  with no chemo or radiation exclude you.

 

These are quiet common ailments in the over 70 crowd that that do not effect their usual everyday life and that would not be considered disabilities by most definitions.  There is also the fact that no one that is not sick right now would want to go to a Doctors office to waste his time on a med evaluation during a contagious pandemic.

Yes, diabetes and a number of other pre-existing conditions would exclude you from cruising. This quote from the International Diabetes Federation's webpage dealing with COVID-19 (https://diabetesvoice.org/en/news/covid-19-and-diabetes/) provides an explanation as to why people with diabetes, controlled or otherwise, are at greater risk:

 

Older people and people with pre-existing medical conditions (such as diabetes, heart disease and asthma) appear to be more vulnerable to becoming severely ill with the COVID-19 virus. When people with diabetes develop a viral infection, it can be harder to treat due to fluctuations in blood glucose levels and, possibly, the presence of diabetes complications. There appear to be two reasons for this. Firstly, the immune system is compromised, making it harder to fight the virus and likely leading to a longer recovery period. Secondly, the virus may thrive in an environment of elevated blood glucose.

 

The foregoing applies to diabetics of all ages. For people 70 or over with no pre-existing conditions, there is still a higher risk due to the reduced ability of our immune system to fight off viruses. The following extract is from an article held at the US National Library of Medicine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582124/

 

One of the most recognized consequences of aging is a decline in immune function. While elderly individuals are by no means immunodeficient, they often do not respond efficiently to novel or previously encountered antigens. This is illustrated by increased vulnerability of individuals 70 years of age and older to influenza (1), a situation that is exacerbated by their poor response to vaccination (2–4).

The effects of aging on the immune system are widespread and affect the rate at which naive B and T cells are produced as well as the composition and quality of the mature lymphocyte pool. The goal of this article is to review recent advances, with a focus on adaptive immunity, in the understanding of the cellular and molecular events underlying these age-induced alterations and discuss their implications for the design of strategies to rejuvenate the immune system in the elderly.

[jimmieg]

5 minutes ago, 39august said:

Would someone either post a connection to this form or direct me to where I can find and copy it, please?  TIA. 

This may be a moot point as one doctor said he would never sign such an open-ended acceptance of responsibility for a virus with many unknowns.

[BigBee51]

If after the COVID-19 crisis is over, Celebrity continues with the age 70+ doctor's note requirement, we will cancel the three reservations we currently have with Celebrity for late this year and next year. Same for any other cruise line who keeps this requirement. My partner and I are intelligent enough to make the determination as to whether either of us should be taking a cruise. As for receiving a FCC instead of a full cash refund when Celebrity denies boarding to  someone, I find it unacceptable and a poor business practice. If the cruise line denies you boarding, you should receive a 100% refund. In what other scenario would a business be able to change a contract between parties (which a reservation once paid for is) and be able to keep the money and not provide the services? We will roll the dice on our November cruise for this 70+ doctor's note requirement based on the 90 day window for cancelling. Any hoo, lay low and stay safe.

[mafig]

Are Royal and Celebrity the only lines that were asking for this letter?  I thought it was all of them, but I recently read a post on Royal's board where someone stated that Princess and Holland America would never ask this of their passengers.  Is that true?

 

 

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

19 minutes ago, BigBee51 said:

If after the COVID-19 crisis is over, Celebrity continues with the age 70+ doctor's note requirement, we will cancel the three reservations we currently have with Celebrity for late this year and next year. Same for any other cruise line who keeps this requirement. My partner and I are intelligent enough to make the determination as to whether either of us should be taking a cruise. As for receiving a FCC instead of a full cash refund when Celebrity denies boarding to  someone, I find it unacceptable and a poor business practice. If the cruise line denies you boarding, you should receive a 100% refund. In what other scenario would a business be able to change a contract between parties (which a reservation once paid for is) and be able to keep the money and not provide the services? We will roll the dice on our November cruise for this 70+ doctor's note requirement based on the 90 day window for cancelling. Any hoo, lay low and stay safe.

 

Agreed!

[Swampbabe]

A reminder to all of the older passengers in this thread, the world is purposely tanking the economy and isolating themselves for YOUR  protection. 

[pasta1]

53 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Agreed!

Second the motion! They are getting bad PR already. I question their business model???????????????

[bEwAbG]

1 hour ago, mafig said:

Are Royal and Celebrity the only lines that were asking for this letter?  I thought it was all of them, but I recently read a post on Royal's board where someone stated that Princess and Holland America would never ask this of their passengers.  Is that true?

 

This was a proposal by the cruise line's lobbying arm.  RCCL brands adopted it.  NCL adopted it.  CCL brands had not yet said one way or the other when they announced a cessation of operations for 30 days.  This was all very fast moving but it looks like the industry was willing to adopt this restriction industry-wide in order to keep ships sailing.  Now that they have a little breathing room, you can bet it's still under discussion, especially if it's a requirement by the government to allow cruises to resume.

[Lovincruisin1321]

On 3/11/2020 at 1:16 PM, markeb said:

So let's be perfectly honest. Given the unknowns on exactly why people over 70 die at a higher rate from COVID-19, no physician can actually give this assurance. Pre-existing conditions make it worse, but there's just enough early information on the nature of the disease process itself to put you in a position of not being able to assess risk.

 

I'm not a physician, but depending on the language they're looking for, I'd never sign that letter...

 

 

I agree.  I don't think the bill will pass just on the liability issue for the doctor.

[UnorigionalName]

Why is everyone taking a situation that is developing by the hour and taking policies as something that will be in place one year from now?  No one knows what the world will look like in 2 weeks, let alone one year.  Is it so urgent to spend your future cruise credit right this second that you are yelling at the sky about policies that were thrown together at the 11th hour?

 

Of course they want your business, of course they don't want to get sued for negligence.  Who knows what the world holds in the future.  Why don't people just relax and give it a few months before complaining about potential cruises that may or may not even happen.

Edited March 17, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[bubbachief]

Just dropped of the over 70 form at my doctor. If he doesn't sign it, will my travel insurance kick in since I'm deemed unhealthy to cruise?

[$hip$hape]

3 hours ago, Swampbabe said:

A reminder to all of the older passengers in this thread,

the world is purposely tanking the economy

and isolating themselves for YOUR  protection. 

WE are having a (big) issue.

Imagine, taking a  youngster to a fair,

and then telling them cotton candy is not good for them.

We are still thinking about cancelling our September cruise and

are looking/waiting for more information/advice.

 

I am sometimes accused of being "nonsensical" so disregard what I write.

Edited March 17, 2020 by $hip$hape

[GRBlizz]

The letter we got from Celebrity on March 12 said that the over 70 restriction would be in place for 30 days and be reviewed. Our cruise (which will never happen) is leaving on Day 32, so I guess we don't have to worry about it unless they say something to extend it.

 

These safety precautions will remain in place for a projected period of 30 days and will be reviewed daily. 

[markeb]

2 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

 

This was a proposal by the cruise line's lobbying arm.  RCCL brands adopted it.  NCL adopted it.  CCL brands had not yet said one way or the other when they announced a cessation of operations for 30 days.  This was all very fast moving but it looks like the industry was willing to adopt this restriction industry-wide in order to keep ships sailing.  Now that they have a little breathing room, you can bet it's still under discussion, especially if it's a requirement by the government to allow cruises to resume.

 

If you look back at the timelines, this was the industry's attempt to not shut down cruising. Sometime probably before Tony Fauci said on Sunday morning TV that people over 70 people shouldn't cruise, the task force or NSC had gone to industry through CLIA and said how to we minimize impact. They came back with an opening bid of screening over 70 passengers. Discussions to stop cruising would have already started at that time, and that's what happened two days after the CLIA proposal got into the press.

 

No one adopted it; they wrote it with CLIA; they're the members. And it's now on the table as acceptable to industry. When cruising begins again, it will be the norm for at least some period of time.

Edited March 17, 2020 by markeb
clarification

[$hip$hape]

22 minutes ago, $hip$hape said:

WE are having a (big) issue.

Imagine, taking a  youngster to a fair,

and then telling them cotton candy is not good for them.

We are still thinking about cancelling our September cruise and

are looking/waiting for more information/advice.

 

I am sometimes accused of being "nonsensical" so disregard what I write.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6911e2.htm

Seems food workers were the main spreaders?

Edited March 17, 2020 by $hip$hape

[markeb]

10 minutes ago, $hip$hape said:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6911e2.htm

Seems food workers were the main spreaders?

 

Not surprising. I wish they'd given an age breakdown as well. The food service folks are largely in the age group most likely to have a very mild disease, but are still apparently competent to transmit.

 

Same sort of concerns in assisted living facilities; those are generally non-medical assistants with very basic infection control training.