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helen haywood

Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

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We will be cancelling our May (waiting to see if they cancel first) and probably July cruises and will use the fcc toward crises currently booked in 2121 and 2122. But, if X continues to require those over 70 to have a signed doctor's OK, will we even be able to cruise at all? We are healthy with no underlying medical conditions. But I wonder if our doctors would sign that form. It seems awfully broad in scope. It seems very unfair to give fcc and then deny being able to use it because of a new requirement after we have already booked. 

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Posted (edited)

According to the Q & A on Celebrity's website, you can take a FCC and then change your mind and ask for a cash refund on all cruises cancelled by them.

 

If you want to cruise and are in good health with no high risk conditions, then find a doctor who will sign that form.  Someone will...if that form is even required by then.

 

From the website:

Q: After I receive my 125% Future Cruise Credit (FCC), can I choose to change to the 100% refund?

A: Yes. All guests have until 12/31/21 to decide to change their FCC to a refund.

Edited by Georgia_Peaches

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Swampbabe said:

A reminder to all of the older passengers in this thread, the world is purposely tanking the economy and isolating themselves for YOUR  protection. 

 

Based on this info today from Dallas I'm not sure this statement is accurate:

 

"Dallas County health officials say nine more people have tested positive for COVID-19, bringing the total to 28.

The cases include two women in their 20s, a man in his 30s, a woman in her 40s, two women in their 50s, a man in his 60s and a woman in her 70s. Five of the patients are hospitalized and three of them are in critical condition. Four of the patients are self-isolating at home.

Eight of the cases involve residents of Dallas and one is a resident of Irving".

 

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-county-reports-9-new-covid-19-cases-ages-20s-to-70s-3-critical/2332286/

 

Plus the 3/1 NCL Bliss sailing positive case was 2 years old:

 

The safety and security of our guests and crew are at all times our first priority. Guests who traveled on the March 1, 2020 and March 8, 2020 voyages of Norwegian Bliss received a letter sharing information per the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) regarding a two-year-old who traveled aboard the vessel on the March 1, 2020 voyage who tested positive for COVID-19. At this time, we are not aware of other similar cases from these voyages. However, in an abundance of caution, the CDC asked that we make guests of the two mentioned voyages aware. This is all the information we have to share at this time.

Edited by SeaHunt

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2 hours ago, markeb said:

No one adopted it; they wrote it with CLIA; they're the members.

 

Yes, of course.  I should have used "enacted" instead of "adopted."  The point being that the Carnival companies had not yet announced they were enacting this whereas RCCL and NCL ones had.  

 

2 hours ago, GRBlizz said:

The letter we got from Celebrity on March 12 said that the over 70 restriction would be in place for 30 days and be reviewed. Our cruise (which will never happen) is leaving on Day 32, so I guess we don't have to worry about it unless they say something to extend it.

 

I think the 30 days was based on what was happening at the end of last week when most companies were shuttering stuff until the end of March or the first week of April.  The CDC has now upped their number to 8 weeks.  You'll start hearing about more and more businesses being closed until mid May.  Announcements are already starting.

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6 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

 

Based on this info today from Dallas I'm not sure this statement is accurate:

 

"Dallas County health officials say nine more people have tested positive for COVID-19, bringing the total to 28.

The cases include two women in their 20s, a man in his 30s, a woman in her 40s, two women in their 50s, a man in his 60s and a woman in her 70s. Five of the patients are hospitalized and three of them are in critical condition. Four of the patients are self-isolating at home.

Eight of the cases involve residents of Dallas and one is a resident of Irving".

 

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-county-reports-9-new-covid-19-cases-ages-20s-to-70s-3-critical/2332286/

 

Plus the 3/1 NCL Bliss sailing positive case was 2 years old:

 

The safety and security of our guests and crew are at all times our first priority. Guests who traveled on the March 1, 2020 and March 8, 2020 voyages of Norwegian Bliss received a letter sharing information per the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) regarding a two-year-old who traveled aboard the vessel on the March 1, 2020 voyage who tested positive for COVID-19. At this time, we are not aware of other similar cases from these voyages. However, in an abundance of caution, the CDC asked that we make guests of the two mentioned voyages aware. This is all the information we have to share at this time.

Not ALL people impacted by Covid-19 are older but the vast majority of fatalities are the elderly. We are all in this together and we should appreciate that most of us are doing what we can to protect a more vulnerable population.

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7 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

"Dallas County health officials say nine more people have tested positive for COVID-19, bringing the total to 28.

The cases include two women in their 20s, a man in his 30s, a woman in her 40s, two women in their 50s, a man in his 60s and a woman in her 70s. Five of the patients are hospitalized and three of them are in critical condition. Four of the patients are self-isolating at home.

Eight of the cases involve residents of Dallas and one is a resident of Irving".

 

The WHO once upon a time adopted a definition that anyone who tested positive was a "case", but the global case fatality rate under 60 is dramatically lower than the over 60; you've got four people from their 50's to 70's, and barring unusual pathology in the younger people who have evidence of infection but may or may not have disease, they probably represent the three in critical condition.

 

The 2 year old is infected with the virus. The case fatality rate globally in children approaches zero. Children become infected, apparently can shed the virus, but almost never die. Unlike the flu.

 

When we truly move into mitigation, "cases" will be redefined. Again.

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9 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

Yes, of course.  I should have used "enacted" instead of "adopted."  The point being that the Carnival companies had not yet announced they were enacting this whereas RCCL and NCL ones had.  

 

 

Fair. There's some sort of belief this was thrust on the industry, along with shutting down cruises. They agreed to both, no matter how reluctantly. The executive authorities to shut them down would have been limited. Very strong authorities going back to the earliest days of the country for public health controls of a public conveyance, but that's not what this is...

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, $hip$hape said:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6911e2.htm

Seems food workers were the main spreaders?

Doesn't say that.  Crew close quarters in their cafeteria and social centers enable the virus to move quickly from person to person, even if visible affects were minimal.   Of course, close association and quarters between crew and passengers in places like MBRs tend to be virulent locales for the virus to jump between people.

Edited by Ride-The-Waves

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1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Doesn't say that.  Crew close quarters in their cafeteria and social centers enable the virus to move quickly from person to person, even if visible affects were minimal.   Of course, close association and quarters between crew and passengers in places like MBRs tend to be virulent locales for the virus to jump between people.

Sorry, I have no clue who “MRBs” are.

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Just now, $hip$hape said:

Sorry, I have no clue who “MRBs” are.

My Dear Wife, who works with prevention  care , also did not know what “MRB” meant.  Please explain. 

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9 minutes ago, $hip$hape said:

My Dear Wife, who works with prevention  care , also did not know what “MRB” meant.  Please explain. 


I’m assuming it’s MDR. But I could be wrong. 
 

I read the article as largely explaining the spread in the group of crew most associated with interacting with the passengers. Which would logically contribute to spread among passengers who I believe were quarantined from search other. 

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13 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Doesn't say that.  Crew close quarters in their cafeteria and social centers enable the virus to move quickly from person to person, even if visible affects were minimal.   Of course, close association and quarters between crew and passengers in places like MBRs tend to be virulent locales for the virus to jump between people.

It was a question. It seems, since many of the crew are food workers, they show the highest number being infected.

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32 minutes ago, $hip$hape said:

Of course, close association and quarters between crew and passengers in places like MBRs

Must be a typo. Didn't think it was master bed room.

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This question remains for many.... 

 

If one cannot get their dr to sign the Medical Fitness Form, assuming that requirement continues into 2021 for seniors, will X refund the Future Cruise Credit amount along with the cruise fare?    ( also  assuming final payment is  due earlier than date for getting a current form)

 

We hope to use ours in 2021 for a previously booked cruise and the 

med form was not required when we booked...Hope we can get dr to say okay in 2021  but no guarantees?????

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I personally feel that the "over 70" med form will be eliminated once the crisis is over.  It was put in place as a short term measure but was quickly superseded by the whole industry going on hiatus.   Why would most cruise lines continue this policy and alienate their arguably largest and most profitable customer bases (over 70) in normal times whenever they return?

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5 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I personally feel that the "over 70" med form will be eliminated once the crisis is over.  It was put in place as a short term measure but was quickly superseded by the whole industry going on hiatus.   Why would most cruise lines continue this policy and alienate their arguably largest and most profitable customer bases (over 70) in normal times whenever they return?

 

I tend to agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's stays in place for 90-180 days after cruising begins again. It's out there now, and may be harder to fully pull back than people think...

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Just my thoughts,  At first I was shocked at the ageism of the "Doctors Note" requirement.  I am 73 in good health and not on any kind prescription meds.  I have not been to a MD in maybe five years.  I get my annual blood work done when I get an OBGYN physical.  I don't know who would fill out the form for me.

As the weeks have gone by, I have about decided that maybe I am not seeing the big picture.  I would hate to be dead wrong over a holiday because I will not admit I am aging.  Maybe our cruising days are done.

My DH has the opinion that Celebrity will save a lot of money on Elites and above programs in the future if this requirement became permanent.  He is more of a cynic and also an accountant.

 

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35 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I personally feel that the "over 70" med form will be eliminated once the crisis is over.  It was put in place as a short term measure but was quickly superseded by the whole industry going on hiatus.   Why would most cruise lines continue this policy and alienate their arguably largest and most profitable customer bases (over 70) in normal times whenever they return?

A valid comment, but it begs the question of when will the crisis deemed to be over? Is it when new cases numbers have peaked and we are on the downside of the bell curve? Or is it when there are no new cases over a week or some other established period of time? If the former, I imagine that Celebrity will want to keep the requirement in place beyond the time when the crisis is declared over. 

 

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1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

A valid comment, but it begs the question of when will the crisis deemed to be over? Is it when new cases numbers have peaked and we are on the downside of the bell curve? Or is it when there are no new cases over a week or some other established period of time? If the former, I imagine that Celebrity will want to keep the requirement in place beyond the time when the crisis is declared over. 

 

 

Well, the simple fact is that if they keep this requirement in place, they will lose approximately half of their customers.  Maybe more.  I get that we're not their target market, but we are their actual market.

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1 minute ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Well, the simple fact is that if they keep this requirement in place, they will lose approximately half of their customers.  Maybe more.  I get that we're not their target market, but we are their actual market.

I'm sure that Celebrity management, its lawyers and its insurers had lively debate before making the decision to implement the requirement. Celebrity is well aware of its actual customer base, and I'd be very surprised if it keeps the medical form in use any longer than is absolutely necessary.

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They should require EVERYONE to get a doctor's note if they're implementing this.  What about various ailments that people have of any age.  What about people who can barely walk but insist on going on a hiking excursion and wrecking it for everyone? What about pregnant women who lie about how pregnant they are just to go on a cruise,  I could go on and on.  I think this is a slippery slope for sure.

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Realistically, they're talking about end of April for this to peak in North America, but that doesn't mean the restrictions will be over.  Recommendation currently is no gatherings over 50 people for 8 weeks, which is the second week of May.  I'm guessing it's going to be a very slow crawl back to "normal" unless the virus peters out sooner than expected.  Even then, there will not be vaccines for it until next year, so the fear all summer will be what happens in the fall & beyond.  The Spanish Flu in 1918 came roaring back at the end of August with its highest death toll in October - November timeframe.  Authorities are going to do everything in their power to keep that from happening.  The cruise lines are going to have to prove that it's not an issue on their ships before governments are going to allow them to sail with a broader audience.  I can very easily see them keeping this restriction in place for a few months if not into next year. 

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43 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I'm sure that Celebrity management, its lawyers and its insurers had lively debate before making the decision to implement the requirement. Celebrity is well aware of its actual customer base, and I'd be very surprised if it keeps the medical form in use any longer than is absolutely necessary.

Is this something that a doctor would even sign?  I'm 69 but in great health no meds whatsoever. How long is the signature for? What if a cruise is booked for 2021? 

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1 minute ago, drakes2 said:

Is this something that a doctor would even sign?  I'm 69 but in great health no meds whatsoever. How long is the signature for? What if a cruise is booked for 2021? 

 

The replies on this thread of ranged from "no problem" to "It specifically mentions cancer and you've had skin cancer. Can't sign it."

 

Since it rapidly became moot, I don't know if there was a time limit, but I'd assume the only value is if there's an exam and signature as close to sailing as possible. If you look at health certificates for traveling with pets (bad example, but it is an example), they're usually good for 10-30 days.

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I am over 70 and had booked 4 cruises this year totally over 80 days.  Cruise 1, which was a 30 day voyage, was cancelled by the cruise line.  Cruise 2, in August, will likely be cancelled by yours truly....if it is not cancelled by the cruise line.  Cruise 3 is a 28 day cruise in the fall and might happen.  But it will not need a doctors note from me.  In fact, if the cruise line wants us to take that cruise we might require a doctors note from the cruise line that they are in good financial health and will be welcomed at all the ports.  For some reason the cruise lines have forgotten that we are the customer, and without us there will be no cruise line.  If they insist on putting up obstacles, we will simply go off and do other things.  So let the cruise lines beware.  Do not bite the hand that feeds your piggy bank.

 

Hank

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