Just Announced - No travel to the US from Europe, including UK)

[fragilek]

1 minute ago, cruiser123! said:

UK isn't in The EU anymore.  That's why it's excluded.  I'm sure it'll come out as its own announcement soon.

 UK government estimates that we have between 5000 to 10000 cases in the country .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-51862922/up-to-10000-in-uk-likely-to-have-coronavirus-chief-scientific-adviser

[ziggyuk]

1 hour ago, cruiser123! said:

UK isn't in The EU anymore.  That's why it's excluded.  I'm sure it'll come out as its own announcement soon.

 

A pretty honest, down to earth speech of what we should expect in the next few weeks, sobering really.

 

 

[abbflex]

18 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

He did specifically say the EU in his announcement, not sure how that will affect other areas of europe that are not in the EU like Switzerland which is in the heart of Europe but not in the EU.

It is the Schengen area,not EU.  That why us in Norway and Switzerland also is on the list. UK and Ireland is not Schengen area even tho Ireland is in EU.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, JAGR said:

Trying to become one, but point taken.  Again, let the attempt at humor go. Let's move on

 

 

Maybe this is not the time for that sort of pointed humor?  

[alyssamma]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Maybe this is not the time for that sort of pointed humor?  

It was a joke...he apologized...multiple times...let it drop.

[HappyInVan]

It's a mistake to exclude UK. In fact, UK should have been one of the first places to be included. The wife of Canada's Prime Minister got infected while in London. Announced Thursday morning. Prime Minister Trudeau is now in self-quarantine.

 

BTW, the UK exited the EU but is still in the Schengren Area till the end of 2020. Hope this clarifies what POTUS said.

 

 

http://www.theschengenvisa.co.uk/brexit-the-uk-and-the-schengen-area.html

 

 

 

[Andrisk123]

UK has never been in the Schengen Area. What the Schengen Agreement in essence does is make cross-border travel between countries basically more or less the same as travelling from one US state to another - you can just go without any additional controls (there are of course fundamental differences and countries can temporary re-instate border controls etc). When driving through mainland Europe in many places the only thing that changes upon entering a new country is that there are road signs welcoming you to the new country. So basically, when you are accepted into the Schengen Area, you can freely travel wherever you want without any restrictions or controls.

 

The US banning flights from Schengen but not from the UK does not seem reasonable to me, mainly due to the fact that UK are taking a very lenient approach (together with Sweden, for example) on combatting the virus - for example, UK is the only major country where football is still played in front of sold-out stadiums while I think all other European countries have banned spectators from attending. So I am not sure it will accomplish anything and from a purely political perspective it is a move that could easily backfire since it is likely to have little or no impact on the spread in the US.

[HappyInVan]

38 minutes ago, Andrisk123 said:

UK has never been in the Schengen Area.

 

I stand corrected. Are the UK passports stamped?

[Andrisk123]

2 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I stand corrected. Are the UK passports stamped?

Not really sure, last time I was in the UK was something like 12 years ago. In theory, passports should be stamped when entering/leaving the UK (and entering/leaving the Schengen Area), however nowadays I think many countries store this information digitally instead.

 

At least as far as I recall, our passports (we are citizens of a Schengen country) were not stamped when entering/leaving Schengen (through Portugal) last November - they were however stamped upon arrival and departure from Cape Verde. 

[ziggyuk]

@Andrisk123 UK passports will not be stamped until we complete the EU exit at the end of the year, we have to show a passport but it is not stamped, after that they almost certainly will be stamped, as will people entering the UK from the EU.

Edited March 13, 2020 by ziggyuk

[ziggyuk]

 

Better than the normal approach 🤣

 

 

[skings]

1 hour ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Better than the normal approach 🤣

 

 

Thank you for posting!  Needed a good chuckle!

 

[8420PR]

I think travel restrictions are here to stay for the future (my expectation is at least a year), but maybe with different countries at different times.   The root cause of this prediction is the different approaches from different countries:

(1) The Eradicate Coronavirus Approach:  E.g. China, Japan Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam:   These countries (with experience of SARS) are aiming to have no corona virus inside their borders, through effective containment.   I think many of the countries that are currently restricting entry (e.g. India, Czech Republic, Malta etc) while enforcing mandatory quarantines are also looking to avoid the pandemic.   If these countries are successful they must continue to control entry from countries taking the second approach.

(2) The Manage the infection, build natural immunity Approach:  The UK is publicly following this, and I think Germany as well.  Once 55% of the population have had the virus a natural immunity is built up and while the virus will become endemic (i.e. part of live) but a much smaller issue.  

 

I think the travel industry, particularly cruising (and particularly MSC with their international customer base) will be severely impacted for at least the next 2 years.

[DCGuy64]

5 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

I think travel restrictions are here to stay for the future (my expectation is at least a year), but maybe with different countries at different times.   The root cause of this prediction is the different approaches from different countries:

(1) The Eradicate Coronavirus Approach:  E.g. China, Japan Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam:   These countries (with experience of SARS) are aiming to have no corona virus inside their borders, through effective containment.   I think many of the countries that are currently restricting entry (e.g. India, Czech Republic, Malta etc) while enforcing mandatory quarantines are also looking to avoid the pandemic.   If these countries are successful they must continue to control entry from countries taking the second approach.

(2) The Manage the infection, build natural immunity Approach:  The UK is publicly following this, and I think Germany as well.  Once 55% of the population have had the virus a natural immunity is built up and while the virus will become endemic (i.e. part of live) but a much smaller issue.  

 

I think the travel industry, particularly cruising (and particularly MSC with their international customer base) will be severely impacted for at least the next 2 years.

I don't think it will take that long. I predict the virus will have died out in two months with the warmer weather and the affected countries will have established protocols just as they did with earlier coronaviruses.

[fragilek]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I don't think it will take that long. I predict the virus will have died out in two months with the warmer weather and the affected countries will have established protocols just as they did with earlier coronaviruses.

 You haven't been to Scotland in our Summer then 

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 You haven't been to Scotland in our Summer then 

Ha, that's where you're wrong: I went to the Fringe festival in August 2004, but you're correct about the weather, I actually wore my kilt. In August, mind you! Brrr!!

[ziggyuk]

16 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

(2) The Manage the infection, build natural immunity Approach:  The UK is publicly following this, and I think Germany as well.  Once 55% of the population have had the virus a natural immunity is built up and while the virus will become endemic (i.e. part of live) but a much smaller issue.  

 

This is not the UK approach, having accepted you can't stop the spread our government have moved to stage 2 (Delay). The delay stage it to spread out the infection rate over a few months instead of several weeks. The reason is twofold, firstly to take the pressure off the NHS (National Health Service) as they will be overwhelmed by the numbers we are expecting and secondly to move the infections into the warmer spring/summer months where the virus could slow (maybe) and summer is also typically when the NHS has most capacity.

You can't build immunity to this virus until you have been infected or vaccinated.

Edited March 13, 2020 by ziggyuk

[8420PR]

Yes, the aim is to delay and level load the infection until the majority have had the infection and built herd immunity.   The UK is not alone in this approach, and it is also the fall-back plan for countries where containment fails.   It is science based, in that behavioral science tells us that mass quarantine will not work (children will go out anyway, even when school is closed).

 

I don't know which approach is better - both are gambles and nobody knows, just that it will create travel restrictions for the next couple of years.

 

Froma former WHO director:

[ziggyuk]

22 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

Yes, the aim is to delay and level load the infection until the majority have had the infection and built herd immunity. 

 

Yes, that is correct it is called herd immunity as you are slowly infecting the population under control so more and more people become immune through infection.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were saying, I thought you were saying people would build become naturally immune without infection.

 

This is of course blown out of the water if the virus begins mutating into new strains like the flu does.

Edited March 13, 2020 by ziggyuk

[ziggyuk]

I have asked the mods to change the title as the UK and Ireland are now included in the ban.

[HappyInVan]

Its official. The number of cases outside China has exceeded the number in China. The number of cases in Italy  is 3x that of Korea. It is a worldwide pandemic.

 

Time to quarantine the west. In the Americas, individual states/provinces and cities are taking the initiative as federal governments dither. In Canada, the PM is taking his time to build consensus in his cabinet. Big announcement on Monday.

 

In the UK, not sure what Boris is up to since the continental governments have acted decisively. 

 

My expectation is that the Europeans (excluding the UK and Italy) will get it under control by April. Possible to resume normal life by May. Resume cruising? Depends on the situation in the USA.

 

I can't understand why Ottawa has not implemented thermal screening at our airports since large numbers of people are coming into the country without screening at the departure airport. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[emmas gran]

47 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Its official. The number of cases outside China has exceeded the number in China. The number of cases in Italy  is 3x that of Korea. It is a worldwide pandemic.

 

Time to quarantine the west. In the Americas, individual states/provinces and cities are taking the initiative as federal governments dither. In Canada, the PM is taking his time to build consensus in his cabinet. Big announcement on Monday.

 

In the UK, not sure what Boris is up to since the continental governments have acted decisively. 

 

My expectation is that the Europeans (excluding the UK and Italy) will get it under control by April. Possible to resume normal life by May. Resume cruising? Depends on the situation in the USA.

 

I can't understand why Ottawa has not implemented thermal screening at our airports since large numbers of people are coming into the country without screening at the departure airport. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WOW you have just realised its a Pandemic this was announced last week here by Boris!!

As to what the UK/Boris is up to, I am senior I have faith in the plans mentioned. Our government will give daily news bulletins either Boris or a senior person from the government and if necessary we will stay at home for the required time to protect ourselves.

As an aside a Chanel 9 reporter in Australia who met with Tom Hanks and his wife now has been tested and has the virus BUT he states he had no symptoms  if this is the case there are a lot of people going to get infected and not just in the UK

[HappyInVan]

37 minutes ago, emmas gran said:

WOW you have just realised its a Pandemic this was announced last week here by Boris!!

As to what the UK/Boris is up to, I am senior I have faith in the plans mentioned. Our government will give daily news bulletins either Boris or a senior person from the government and if necessary we will stay at home for the required time to protect ourselves.

 

 

I'm surprised that Boris hadn't acted last week! Timeliness is important.

 

In Italy, they had only 3 confirmed cases on February 6^th. On the 14^th, the first known patient in Lombardy reported to a hospital and was misdiagnosed. By the 21^th, the mistake had been realized and 20 had been identified.

 

On February 24, a quarantine was placed on 50k people. On March 8, the quarantine extended to Northern Italy. But, by March 15^th, there were 24k identified. No idea how many have yet to show symptoms.

 

At this point, there are not enough medical resources to treat all the patients. Too late to begin large scale testing. Too late, too late.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by HappyInVan

[emmas gran]

4 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I'm surprised that Boris hadn't acted last week! Timeliness is important.

 

In Italy, they had only 3 confirmed cases on February 6^th. On the 14^th, the first known patient in Lombardy reported to a hospital and was misdiagnosed. By the 21^th, the mistake had been realized and 20 had been identified.

 

On February 24, a quarantine was placed on 50k people. On March 8, the quarantine extended to Northern Italy. But, by March 15^th, there were 24k infected.

 

At this point, there are not enough medical resources to treat all the patients. Too late to begin large scale testing. Too late, too late.

 

 

 

I am talking about UK not Italy if you are going to put Boris down fine --I am happy with things here. We have tested over 30,000 people

[HappyInVan]

29 minutes ago, emmas gran said:

I am happy with things here. We have tested over 30,000 people

 

 

You know best...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-uk-public-backlash-against-lack-of-restrictions.html