Can Viking Remain Viable With This Extreme Revenue Loss

[Jim Avery]

4 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

So a company based in Switzerland with ships flagged in Norway would get a loan from the US gov't?? 🙄

Why not?  They borrowed a bunch from the Chinese.  All we are doing is speculating, speculating, speculating.  The world wide panic to close everything will affect more important industries than cruising.  As much as I love cruising, I realize major changes are taking place.  Just hang on and hope for less panic.

[Captain_Morgan]

1 minute ago, Jim Avery said:

Why not?  They borrowed a bunch from the Chinese.  All we are doing is speculating, speculating, speculating.  The world wide panic to close everything will affect more important industries than cruising.  As much as I love cruising, I realize major changes are taking place.  Just hang on and hope for less panic.

 

Fair comment,  but I would think if the industry in general were to receive an offer of a bail out, I would see them going to the 'American' brands before they went to 'European' brands despite the clientele (i.e. majority American passengers) or ability to repay.

Viking has very little presence in the North American market as compared to RCCL, NCL, CCL, etc. whereas they've been working with the Chinese more closely for a longer amount of time, specifically within the river sector.

 

All of that said, i think it would be hard to stomach for the collective to see companies not paying taxes in the country being given favorable loans / bail outs, but that's another discussion for another time...

[Peregrina651]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Unfortunately, when we block the trolls, we lose the ability to report the post

 

Not really. We can still view their posts, if we wish, on an individual basis.

One of the options is "Show this post." From there, you can read the post and decide if you wish to report it. "Show this post" does not override "Ignore user" and future posts will continue to be ignored.

 

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

10 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

Not really. We can still view their posts, if we wish, on an individual basis.

One of the options is "Show this post." From there, you can read the post and decide if you wish to report it. "Show this post" does not override "Ignore user" and future posts will continue to be ignored.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Peregrina651 - was aware of the option, but elect not to read the diatribe from those I block. To busy have fun on the Viking Sun and posting updates.

[Justalone]

On 3/12/2020 at 9:00 AM, airtana said:

Now that the company has suspended all operations through at least April 30th and offering cash refunds and/or 125% future cruise vouchers, we wonder if they can sustain such losses and still remain in business.  We were booked on the Sea which was to depart today from San Juan heading to Barcelona,  so we were like deer caught in headlights when we got the call last night at 11:21pm (yes, indeed, the 11th hour)from a Representative saying it had been cancelled.  Yes, Viking is definitely stepping up in a very generous way to offer these cash refunds or 125% in Future Cruise vouchers, but  I am wanting to gauge what people are feeling about making the decision between the two.    If (and that’s a big IF) this coronavirus outbreak continues to get worse and they have to make more major cancellations, and subsequently are forced into bankruptcy, that 125% might not be worth anything.  Any opinions or thoughts???? 

If it were me, I would take the money and run.  Real money, a sure thing.   Not Future Cruise credit vouchers, not knowing what the future holds for Viking.
FWIW, I am risk adverse.   YMMV.  Risk versus potential reward.

Good luck whatever you decide.  Safe travels.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Justalone

[lackcreativity]

9 hours ago, Justalone said:

If it were me, I would take the money and run.  Real money, a sure thing.   Not Future Cruise credit vouchers, not knowing what the future holds for Viking.
FWIW, I am risk adverse.   YMMV.  Risk versus potential reward.

Good luck whatever you decide.  Safe travels.

In time of extreme situations, even "real" money might not be a sure thing. Ask someone from Venezuela.  I am a middle of the road kind of gal. I recognize the danger of the current situation, but try not to think of the worst case scenarios. 

 

In regards to my canceled cruise with Viking, I will be taking the cash, but only to use to pay the balance due April 28 for our late October cruise since the vouchers can only be used for a new booking. Like the stock market, we only spend money on travel that we can afford to loose. After all, though these trips are priceless to me, they are not tangible assets, and as soon as they are over they are of no financial value. However, I am cautious enough not to be willing to have more than one paid in full cruise at a time. I will take a gamble, but only up to a point.

 

We have always used the Viking cancel for any reason insurance, knowing that if Viking became insolvent, we would lose our investment. I always figured that if Viking went bankrupt, we would be facing problems in the world way bigger than just the loss of a cruise line. Even those who have independent insurance which covers that possibility could face a worst case situation where those insurance companies are unable to pay. But then, that is one of those extremes on which I would rather not dwell. 

 

I anticipate difficult times ahead, but maintain some level of trust that we will come through it in the end. Looking forward to more cruises with Viking in the future, since outside of family and friends, it is what brings the most pleasure to my life. 

 

Best wishes to all.

[SempreMare]

On 3/12/2020 at 11:40 AM, Dukefan said:

I believe Viking Management has demonstrated its ability to make sound business decisions for the 23 years it has been in existence.   It has grown from a small River cruise enterprise into the major River cruise organization and into one of the top ocean cruise companies in the world.

 

Agreed. 

 

In addition, people may want smaller ships going forward.   This favors Viking.

 

@Dukefan, as someone who camped overnight in K-ville for 4 awesome seasons of bball, March Madness cancellation was another emotion destroyer this week. 

 

Between 'small things' like that cancellation, SXSW cancellation,  cruise news,  and the scale of the 'big things' like the human tragedy unfolding and economic value destroyed,  this does seem worse than 9-11. 

 

 

You can email me at 

TravelInsuranceCompared@gmail.com

though I've paused my spreadsheet comparison for now...

Edited March 14, 2020 by SempreMare

[Dukefan]

34 minutes ago, SempreMare said:

 

Agreed. 

 

In addition, people may want smaller ships going forward.   This favors Viking.

 

@Dukefan, as someone who camped overnight in K-ville for 4 awesome seasons of bball, March Madness cancellation was another emotion destroyer this week. 

 

Between 'small things' like that cancellation, SXSW cancellation,  cruise news,  and the scale of the 'big things' like the human tragedy unfolding and economic value destroyed,  this does seem worse than 9-11. 

 

 

You can email me at 

TravelInsuranceCompared@gmail.com

though I've paused my spreadsheet comparison for now...

As Duke Men's and Women's season ticket holders this has been a kick in the butt.   The Men's ACC Tournament was cancelled just hours before Duke played.   Both Men and Women qualified for the "Big Dance" and it gets cancelled. I take some wine classes at Duke and they were cancelled.  Then yesterday Canada announces they are closing Vancouver to cruises ships until July 1st (we had a Viking Alaska and Inside Passage Cruise all of there scheduled for June 25th).   Three months is a long time, so we will see what happens between now and then.   Viking says they are working on it.  It has been that kind of year for many of us cruise folks - Wait and See!   We have another cruise on Viking this year in early October out of Venice  - hopefully things get better by then and allow us to make that cruise.   When you are in your 70's, you really hate missing major vacations because you have no idea how many are left.  But all of these disappointments are nothing compared to the folks that have actually gotten this virus! 

 

I envy your K-Ville experience - we were in school before K-Ville got started!

 

[SempreMare]

1 hour ago, Dukefan said:

 you really hate missing major vacations because you have no idea how many are left. 

 

Exactly. 

True at any age, but more impactful with each year.

 

Then there are the truly Once-in-a-lifetime events.  

Example:  the Dubai World Fair.   (aka "Expo 2020 Dubai")

I went to Dubai to speak at a conference in 2017, and LOVED it. 

Was SO looking forward to this as a Christmas vacation:  

https://www.expo2020dubai.com/

 

You can email me at 
TravelInsuranceCompared@gmail.com
though I've paused my spreadsheet comparison for now...

Edited March 14, 2020 by SempreMare

[Baron Barracuda]

Cruise lines may be suffering, but so are hotels, restaurants, theaters, airlines, etc etc.  In this crisis central banks are providing liquidity and regulators will instruct banks to practice forbearance.  Forcing creditors into bankruptcy is the last thing banks want.  Once we get through this I am personally optimistic for VR due to their strong market position.  VO has many competitors and will likely recover more slowly.

[Dukefan]

50 minutes ago, SempreMare said:

 

Exactly. 

True at any age, but more impactful with each year.

 

Then there are the truly Once-in-a-lifetime events.  

Example:  the Dubai World Fair.   (aka "Expo 2020 Dubai")

I went to Dubai to speak at a conference in 2017, and LOVED it. 

Was SO looking forward to this as a Christmas vacation:  

https://www.expo2020dubai.com/

 

You can email me at 
TravelInsuranceCompared@gmail.com
though I've paused my spreadsheet comparison for now...

Wow!   The Dubai World Fair looks interesting and as a bonus the Three Day Pass is free for folks above 65 years of age.  Probably can't make it in December but maybe during the winter trip we take each year when there are no home Duke Basketball games.  Thanks for telling us about it!!

[SempreMare]

@Dukefan, the next once-in-a-Decade event I'm looking forward to after Dubai is

Amsterdam's 2022 Floriade

https://floriade.com/en/at-the-expo/

https://tulipsinholland.com/floriade/

 

"The Floriade is an international garden festival and exhibition that is held every ten years in the Netherlands."  Yes there are a ton of stunning tulips in beautiful fields.  But it's so much more... really like a horticultural World Fair of it's own.

I went to the one in 2002 - one of my fave experiences ever.

Missed 2012.

I must see 2022 Floriade.

 

 

You can email me at 
TravelInsuranceCompared@gmail.com
though I've paused my spreadsheet comparison for now...

Edited March 15, 2020 by SempreMare

[Dukefan]

5 minutes ago, SempreMare said:

@Dukefan, the next once-in-a-Decade event I'm looking forward to after Dubai is

Amsterdam's 2022 Floriade

https://floriade.com/en/at-the-expo/

https://tulipsinholland.com/floriade/

 

"The Floriade is an international garden festival and exhibition that is held every ten years in the Netherlands."  Yes there are a ton of stunning tulips in beautiful fields.  But it's so much more... really like a horticultural World Fair of it's own.

I went to the one in 2002 - one of my fave experiences ever.

Missed 2012.

I must see 2022 Floriade.

 

 

You can email me at 
TravelInsuranceCompared@gmail.com
though I've paused my spreadsheet comparison for now...

Can I hire you are my vacation consulate? Just joking but seriously thanks for the travel idea! 

[Cienfuegos]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:15 PM, Baron Barracuda said:

Cruise lines may be suffering, but so are hotels, restaurants, theaters, airlines, etc etc.  In this crisis central banks are providing liquidity and regulators will instruct banks to practice forbearance.  Forcing creditors into bankruptcy is the last thing banks want.  Once we get through this I am personally optimistic for VR due to their strong market position.  VO has many competitors and will likely recover more slowly.

Many jobs in the hospitality industry are at risk. Restaurants, hotels, airlines, cruise lines and suppliers, etc.

 

As many of us know, cruise jobs often support extended families in their efforts to secure a better life

[terrydtx]

If you are worried about Viking solvency make sure your insurance covers insolvency and bankruptcy of the travel provider, in this case the airline and Viking. Our insurance has this coverage for our Viking cruise in September. If the cruise is cancelled and we get a FCC the insurance would pay us back in cash, as long as the insurance company stays solvent.  As for any US bailouts for Viking from the US, we will busy with bailouts for US owned  companies and doubt if Viking is on the list. Delta and American Airlines are already talking  about bailouts as a result of Covid19. We have been looking forward to our first Viking cruise since we booked in 2018 and we are not going to bail out until we get closer and see where this whole crisis goes in the next 3 to 4 months. I would be very upset if we took Viking"s generous offer to cancel now and then this cruise goes off as normal in September.

 

One thing for sure the Covid19 is going to change the way we all live our live  and  how and where we travel in the foreseeable future, some companies will survive and unfortunately many will not. Other than doing out parts to slow the spread, there is very little we can do individually and I for one will not loose any sleep over this.

 

The people I fear more for are the people who work and serve us at our favorite local restaurants, hotels and bars. We visited our local favorite wine bar Friday night and they were near empty, the owners and servers there have been our friends for some time, this is our favorite Friday night hangout. I do not know if they can survive but I left our server a 30% tip to help her out a little bit more than normal. When or if you can visit a restaurant or bar think more about your servers and their financial conditions.

[JerryInIL]

My Generali Global Assistance policy requires that In the event of bankruptcy, the policy be purchased when final payment is made.  

[Cienfuegos]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:15 PM, Baron Barracuda said:

Cruise lines may be suffering, but so are hotels, restaurants, theaters, airlines, etc etc.  In this crisis central banks are providing liquidity and regulators will instruct banks to practice forbearance.  Forcing creditors into bankruptcy is the last thing banks want.  Once we get through this I am personally optimistic for VR due to their strong market position.  VO has many competitors and will likely recover more slowly.

 

I agree with this observation, but sometimes conditions deteriorate or lenders panic.

 

For example, Carnival has now withdrawn most of its line of credit extending to 2024. Cash on hand, for which you pay loan interest or financing costs, is better than a promise of credit which could be withdrawn.  The stock plunged yesterday, and there's considerable concern the dividend will be slashed.

 

Viking's financial arrangements are not public knowledge.  However, it's likely their lenders will be asked for forbearance, as cash coming in the door will be severely restricted. I also see the 125% credit for future cruises as an expensive funding structure to keep that cash inside the firm. Considered another way, Viking is offering 25% interest on 6 month to 18 month cash.

[duquephart]

4 hours ago, Cienfuegos said:

 

I agree with this observation, but sometimes conditions deteriorate or lenders panic.

 

For example, Carnival has now withdrawn most of its line of credit extending to 2024. Cash on hand, for which you pay loan interest or financing costs, is better than a promise of credit which could be withdrawn.  The stock plunged yesterday, and there's considerable concern the dividend will be slashed.

 

Viking's financial arrangements are not public knowledge.  However, it's likely their lenders will be asked for forbearance, as cash coming in the door will be severely restricted. I also see the 125% credit for future cruises as an expensive funding structure to keep that cash inside the firm. Considered another way, Viking is offering 25% interest on 6 month to 18 month cash.

 

They will have a work around on that 125% deal. Ever been to a car dealer?

Edited March 18, 2020 by duquephart

[Cienfuegos]

28 minutes ago, duquephart said:

 

They will have a work around on that 125% deal. Ever been to a car dealer?

 

that's a fine observation. If the competitive market allows, I'm sure VOC will try to raise prices. Just like a car dealer.

 

(My last three cars have been 9-18 month old Hertz resales. Absolutely wonderful cars, most recent was a  nearly new Infiniti Q50)

[Homerody]

On a Customer Service related note - I realize that Viking must be facing a crushing volume of customer service/cancellation inquiries.

 

Has anyone over the past 10 days or so been able to get any response from tellus@viking or any other Viking customer service email?

 

Just wondering.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Homerody
typos

[lackcreativity]

2 hours ago, Homerody said:

On a Customer Service related note - I realize that Viking must be facing a crushing volume of customer service/cancellation inquiries.

 

Has anyone over the past 10 days or so been able to get any response from tellus@viking or any other Viking customer service email?

 

Just wondering.

Just today I called Viking to request the refund on our river cruise from April 11 that was canceled. My wait on the phone for an agent was extremely brief, and the entire process took not much more than five minutes. I promptly received the email confirmation of the refund. I can't really respond to your question about the emails, but the phone experience was efficient and gracious, as usual.

 

I would have liked to receive the 125% future cruise credit, but we have a final payment due on another Viking cruise by April 28, so I wanted to use the cash to make that payment. The upcoming cruise is not until October 25, so as a semi-optimist, I like to believe that all will be well by then!

[Homerody]

@lackcreativity thanks for the update with your phone experience.

 

An unrelated question - as a "semi-optimist" is the glass 1/4 full? 😉

 

Best wishes for your future travels.

[lackcreativity]

3 hours ago, Homerody said:

@lackcreativity thanks for the update with your phone experience.

 

An unrelated question - as a "semi-optimist" is the glass 1/4 full? 😉

 

Best wishes for your future travels.

I am finding it a bit harder than usual to be an optimist right now, so a "semi-optimist" is the best I can manage. But I do imagine that my glass, even if only 1/4 full, is a big glass and a nice cabernet.

 

To better days ahead! 🍷

[DaveSJ711]

On 3/14/2020 at 11:15 AM, Baron Barracuda said:

Cruise lines may be suffering, but so are hotels, restaurants, theaters, airlines, etc etc.  In this crisis central banks are providing liquidity and regulators will instruct banks to practice forbearance.  Forcing creditors into bankruptcy is the last thing banks want.  Once we get through this I am personally optimistic for VR due to their strong market position.  VO has many competitors and will likely recover more slowly.

 

You can add shipbuilders to your list.  The Italian company, Fincantieri, is under contract to build several new vessels for Viking.  Due to the COVID outbreak, however, the firm has suspended operations at least until March 29.  It will be interesting to see if and when the operations resume.     

[CCWineLover]

10 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

You can add shipbuilders to your list.  The Italian company, Fincantieri, is under contract to build several new vessels for Viking.  Due to the COVID outbreak, however, the firm has suspended operations at least until March 29.  It will be interesting to see if and when the operations resume.     

 

I would imagine all those ships Viking had planned are on hold as well then.  Who knows, perhaps the Venus will be it for the future years.