RCCL requires Drs, note

[Evilgrin72]

7 hours ago, Dennis#1 said:

No, you can not sign the form yourself, unless you are a medical doctor.  If the cruise line finds out that you signed the form, they could issue a lifelong prohibition on you cruising with them.

 

How would they ever know? Are they following up? Do they ask (or does the form ask) for contact information or do they just want to see a signature?

 

I have no axe to grind here, I'm in my 40s, but I hate to see our seniors being pushed off out of fear of litigation, which is what this feels like. 

[TYinPalmSprings]

18 hours ago, CruisinNole said:

According to CLIO, cruisers over the age of 70 make up 13% of total cruisers. That doesn't sound like a large portion to me. I do agree with you that the note from a doctor to cruise certainly is upsetting the over 70 cruisers. I hope it and the hoarding of TP both go away when we have control of the virus.

How many grandpas and grandmas out there are taking, and paying for,  their children, grandkids etc to join them on cruises. How many working folks under 70 have the time from their jobs to take TAs, TPs, world cruises, or cruises that extend more than a week or two.  Depending on the source of the analysis, it can say whatever satisfies a goal. And how can you trust the Cruise Line International Association under Kelly Craighead, who is responsible for cruise line actions that are resulting in them taking money from those over 70, changing their policy to exclude us after the fact,  issuing worthless credits with expiration dates, and keeping our money. Is this their good-bye?  or is it just theft?

Edited March 18, 2020 by TYinPalmSprings

[Ocean Boy]

24 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

 

How would they ever know? Are they following up? Do they ask (or does the form ask) for contact information or do they just want to see a signature?

 

I have no axe to grind here, I'm in my 40s, but I hate to see our seniors being pushed off out of fear of litigation, which is what this feels like. 

Would you like to have your own prescription pads printed up and sign those too?😒 If you are going to be signing forms I suggest you not pick a profession that requires a license. If you get caught you may not appreciate the ramifications.

[Judyrem]

4 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

How many grandpas and grandmas out there are taking, and paying for,  their children, grandkids etc to join them on cruises. How many working folks under 70 have the time from their jobs to take TAs, TPs, world cruises, or cruises that extend more than a week or two.  Depending on the source of the analysis, it can say whatever satisfies a goal. And how can you trust the Cruise Line International Association under Kelly Craighead, who is responsible for cruise line actions that are resulting in them taking money from those over 70, changing their policy to exclude us after the fact,  issuing worthless credits with expiration dates, and keeping our money. Is this their good-bye?  or is it just theft?

Good post!  Nailed it!

[Judyrem]

8 hours ago, puerto penasco lady said:

My Doctor cancelled my appointment for routine blood work.  At the moment she is only treating urgent care patients.  I doubt seriously that she will take the time to sign this idiotic letter, even if her insurance would allow her to take on the  liability.  I have 12 Royal Caribbean cruises booked at the moment, plus airfare, hotels etc...I doubt very many doctors would be willing to sign it.  I have no medical issues, work out daily, and can easily keep up with people 20 years younger than me.  I think they are leaving themselves open for some age discrimination lawsuits if they don't rethink this.  Unless they require every single passenger, regardless of age, to have this letter than they are  definitely discriminating based on an arbitrary number. 

Spot on.  I cancelled my routine med refills next week.  I asked for a temporary supply for 2 months and my doc said in these new parameters he would do it. I said I am reluctant to go the any medical facility because I am healthy right now.  Even in a time with no pandemic happening, my doctors office is large and often filled with "sick people".🙄  I always find a seat as far away as possible from any one else!😉

Edited March 18, 2020 by Judyrem

[Evilgrin72]

50 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Would you like to have your own prescription pads printed up and sign those too?😒 If you are going to be signing forms I suggest you not pick a profession that requires a license. If you get caught you may not appreciate the ramifications.

 

I understand the ethical concern. Writing prescriptions under fraudulent auspices hardly seems like an apples to apples comparison to this, but I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to get into the ethics or legality of this, just wondering what, if anything, the cruise lines would do to verify the veracity of the signature. 

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

 

I understand the ethical concern. Writing prescriptions under fraudulent auspices hardly seems like an apples to apples comparison to this, but I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to get into the ethics or legality of this, just wondering what, if anything, the cruise lines would do to verify the veracity of the signature. 

Suppose something did happen to you while on the ship and RCI pulls out the form and does do a verification. What might the ramifications be to you if you submitted a fraudulent form? I don't know the answer. Do you want to take the chance of finding out? Things are always fine until something happens.

[Evilgrin72]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Suppose something did happen to you while on the ship and RCI pulls out the form and does do a verification. What might the ramifications be to you if you submitted a fraudulent form? I don't know the answer. Do you want to take the chance of finding out? Things are always fine until something happens.

Understood. Doesn't apply to me anyway, just wondering if the 70+ cruisers unable to get this form signed for whatever reason (doctor refuses to sign due to liability concerns, unable to get an appointment within 7 days of departure, etc.) might get on board simply by scribbling a signature on the form. 

[NJ&Ozzie]

12 hours ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

Correct. As it sits right now the only time you can get a refund for 100% is  when they cancel the cruise, otherwise,  if you are travelling before July 31, you can only get a FCC. 

OK but not sure I understand how RC can only give FCC's back.   Isn't there some legality whereby a person's refund must be credited back in the same form as given, eg. back to your credit card. 

 

Has anyone checked with the US govt whether RC is really allowed to do this?

NJ 

[TYinPalmSprings]

5 minutes ago, NJ&Ozzie said:

OK but not sure I understand how RC can only give FCC's back.   Isn't there some legality whereby a person's refund must be credited back in the same form as given, eg. back to your credit card. 

 

Has anyone checked with the US govt whether RC is really allowed to do this?

NJ 

It is in force by RCCL and in detail with required document to be signed and is on their website.  I would  think it impossible that they would enforce this drastic action without government approval....but remember...they are registered in Liberia and other places. Some US laws that may not have teeth with these international concerns even if they are allowed ot do business in this country. If they cancel a cruise, you can get a refund, as of right now, but if you want to change a cruise or cancel because you do not meet their new health requirement, all they will provide is an FCC that, according to this new policy, you will not be able to use up to their Dec 2021 expiration.

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

It is in force by RCCL and in detail with required document to be signed and is on their website.  I would  think it impossible that they would enforce this drastic action without government approval....but remember...they are registered in Liberia and other places. Some US laws that may not have teeth with these international concerns even if they are allowed ot do business in this country. 

With the economic position thst they are in right now I think it would behoove RCI to play nice for two reasons. First, when they start running again they are desparately going to be in need of customer good will. Second, depending on how long this drags on, no matter where they may be registered, I am sure they will suck up to the U.S. government for money. Pissing off the people who vote for that government and supply its money is not to RCI's advantage.

[Blizzard54]

It is time to wake up and smell the roses....they do not smell good.

 

THIS THING IS REAL!

 

The note is a method of trying to protect people.  We are way past the need for a note now.  I doubt the ships will be sailing again before August.  So far there are way too many people that are not taking social distancing seriously.  

Once things settle down I am sure the cruise lines will figure out a way to compensate those that may not be able to cruise in the future.  Right now they have bigger problems to deal with like staying out of bankruptcy. 

[steveru621]

On 3/13/2020 at 6:05 AM, hotsauce126 said:

"on such short notice" 

 

You know standalone walk in clinics exist right

 

Lots of walk-in (minute clinics) are not staffed with doctors.

[steveru621]

I don't think anyone would forge a doctor's signature.

[ReneeFLL]

On 3/15/2020 at 2:35 PM, Mapleleafforever said:

My 73 year old father who is healthier now than when he was 30 also claimed age discrimination on our last Allure cruise when he tried to bring our toddler into the Solarium. We are booked again for next January and I'm hoping that there won't be any forms of age discrimination at that time.....no Dr's notes for people over 70 and no adults only areas where young people are discriminated against. 

They don't allow adults into the kids play area whatever it's called. I'm just saying.

Edited March 19, 2020 by ReneeFLL

[JamesEM]

7 hours ago, steveru621 said:

I don't think anyone would forge a doctor's signature.

Earth to 621, what world do you live in?  

[steveru621]

4 hours ago, JamesEM said:

Earth to 621, what world do you live in?  

 

<Sarcasm>

 

But I think you knew that?

[ReneeFLL]

On 3/18/2020 at 8:43 AM, Ocean Boy said:

Would you like to have your own prescription pads printed up and sign those too?😒 If you are going to be signing forms I suggest you not pick a profession that requires a license. If you get caught you may not appreciate the ramifications.

I would think the only way someone would get caught is if something happen to that person and then tried suing RC. I'm not saying they should, but that's how I think they would only get caught. 

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

I would think the only way someone would get caught is if something happen to that person and then tried suing RC. I'm not saying they should, but that's how I think they would only get caught. 

No, I think if anything happened requiring RCI to either return to port to evac someone, or if they had to arrange to medivac someone at sea, or if they had to divert the ship for an unscheduled stop, all of which causes unexpected and unwanted expense to RCI, that RCI might pull the form to make sure the passenger was actually clear to be on the ship. And if the form were forged I could see the cruise line going after the passenger for those extra expenses and possibly banning them from future travel. They might also report them to authorities for fraudulent documentation. 

[Starry Eyes]

12 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

No, I think if anything happened requiring RCI to either return to port to evac someone, or if they had to arrange to medivac someone at sea, or if they had to divert the ship for an unscheduled stop, all of which causes unexpected and unwanted expense to RCI, that RCI might pull the form to make sure the passenger was actually clear to be on the ship. And if the form were forged I could see the cruise line going after the passenger for those extra expenses and possibly banning them from future travel. They might also report them to authorities for fraudulent documentation. 

Those are totally valid points anyone is well advised to consider.  Of course, if RCI wants a verifiable form, perhaps they ought to request, at a minimum, the physician’s printed name and address.  Sick people would understandably forget the name of a doctor the saw only once in some walk-in clinic just to get a form signed and thus be legitimately unable to supply that info.  Travel companions often do not know medical details.  Any fraudsters might be hard to sort from poor recall.

[ReneeFLL]

34 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

No, I think if anything happened requiring RCI to either return to port to evac someone, or if they had to arrange to medivac someone at sea, or if they had to divert the ship for an unscheduled stop, all of which causes unexpected and unwanted expense to RCI, that RCI might pull the form to make sure the passenger was actually clear to be on the ship. And if the form were forged I could see the cruise line going after the passenger for those extra expenses and possibly banning them from future travel. They might also report them to authorities for fraudulent documentation. 

I can see what you're talking about and that stuff didn't occur to me. I was thinking more of if a passenger got sick, but didn't require such attention. Anyway I'm happy I don't have to worry about this age thing since I have a ways to go, but I can still see people doing it.

[TYinPalmSprings]

Now that we are seeing that the virus in the US , France and Italy is showing  a heavy amount of severe cases to those 20-50 years if age, with many hospitalized. Some have died and that group is being warned by the CDC and medical professionals to be aware.  I would expect that the medical letter required for those over 70 will be immediately demanded by RCCL and others for future travel under their new policy.. So far crickets. This will sniff out how discriminatory this is.

[Dennis#1]

11 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

No, I think if anything happened requiring RCI to either return to port to evac someone, or if they had to arrange to medivac someone at sea, or if they had to divert the ship for an unscheduled stop, all of which causes unexpected and unwanted expense to RCI, that RCI might pull the form to make sure the passenger was actually clear to be on the ship. And if the form were forged I could see the cruise line going after the passenger for those extra expenses and possibly banning them from future travel. They might also report them to authorities for fraudulent documentation. 

Agree.  Great points included in your post.  Definitely not prudent to forge a Doctors signature on that form.

[grapau27]

6 hours ago, Dennis#1 said:

Agree.  Great points included in your post.  Definitely not prudent to forge a Doctors signature on that form.

Insurance companies would void your insurance so people risk being personally responsible and could lose everything.

Certainly not worth it.

[gadaboutgal]

I agree that no one should forge a real physician's signature on Royal's waiver document.  Note the word real -hmm are they going to look up every doctor?

Edited March 21, 2020 by gadaboutgal