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Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

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7 hours ago, Porky55 said:

Thank you - so this has all been generated by a TA doing some butt covering??? 🤔

Very interesting ....

 

No, I think this has been generated by the following. Some other cruise lines including Carnival, a part of the same corporation have done this. This is the recommendation of the CLIA in response to Mike Pence's task force.

 

It is not the Princess policy now, but there is obviously no guarantee that it will not be adopted. This is what is making me question should we cancel our July Princess Norwegian fjords cruise now with only a refundable deposit, or should we still consider taking this cruise knowing our whole payment will be at risk after making final payment due in a little over a month, 

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9 hours ago, Potstech said:

You are the one using your "legal training" as a reason to say others have no case. Now it your "legal experience" to try and do the same. 

 

The fact that you're being adversely affected doesn't change the fact that your own definition allows for different treatment when that difference can be traced to 'individual merit'.

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Been reading though this thread and seen examples of the form that is required. One of the things I did not see was any mention of the level of control for the underlying disease. Hey I have High Blood Pressure, but its controlled by medication. Many other people have other ailments, but they are controlled. How does that figure in to your ability to travel safely. 

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Does anybody know when Cruise line wants the letter ? Prior to 90 day Final Payment OK? You would think they would want it closer to sail date but then that causes problems with cancellation / refund. I understand that this is currently moot with regard to Princess.

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When we traveled south of the Antarctic Circle on Hurtigruten three years ago and the company required a health certificate from a doctor.  Forwarded to the ship in advance, the ship's doctor reviewed the certificates for underlying health challenge that could manifest during the two-week cruise.  That did not restrict those with selected health problems, include one gentleman using crutches and a wheel chair.  Its a very good precaution and probably should have been in place for "general" cruising.  Ships have a very limited capacity to respond to many health challenges and look to offload "sick" passengers at the nearest/next port.  We are 75 and 78 and fall into the health screening criteria.  Have been "cruising" since my first trans-Atlantic in 1949 as a youngster.  Thirty years US Navy.  I applaud this screening and will adhere to its guidance.

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Its just not those of us over 70...  From Washington Post a few minutes ago:

 

A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention analysis of U.S. cases from Feb. 12 to March 16 released Wednesday shows 38 percent of those sick enough to be hospitalized were younger than 55.

 

Earlier this week, French health ministry official Jérome Salomon said half of the 300 to 400 coronavirus patients treated in intensive care units in Paris were younger than 65, and, according to numbers presented at a seminar of intensive care specialists, half the ICU patients in the Netherlands were younger than 50.

 

Again, "New Normal"

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17 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

Does anybody know when Cruise line wants the letter ? Prior to 90 day Final Payment OK? You would think they would want it closer to sail date but then that causes problems with cancellation / refund. I understand that this is currently moot with regard to Princess.

It does not apply to Princess!!

So it is Moot for this thread.  

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2 hours ago, Colo Cruiser said:

It does not apply to Princess!!

So it is Moot for this thread.  

As of now, but with their 60 days of no cruising, they have plenty of time to institute it before they resume sailing. There is no guarantee they will not.

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On 3/15/2020 at 7:49 PM, caribill said:

 

Which is why some doctors may be reluctant to sign the form.

I'll be visiting my doctor within the next few weeks & I'll bring a copy for him to sign even though it doesn't apply to Princess at this point in time.

Just to see his reaction to the form. 

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9 minutes ago, BIG TIME CRUISER said:

I'll be visiting my doctor within the next few weeks & I'll bring a copy for him to sign even though it doesn't apply to Princess at this point in time.

Just to see his reaction to the form. 

As I posted on page 11 I talked to two doctors about the form. Both said for liability reason's they would be hesitant to sign it.

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29 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

NO DOCTOR WILL SIGN SUCH STATEMENT.

And that would mean no one 70 or over could ever cruise again unless this policy changes.

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On 3/18/2020 at 3:53 PM, Ride-The-Waves said:

Seriously doubt if it will become "extinct" in our lifetimes.  It will change - for the better.  Maybe no more party cruises, drunk gonna lines round the pool at midnight, bar hopping, etc.  Ships designed to take people to interesting places in relative comfort, not "cruise ports."

I seriously doubt that. Alcohol is the largest on board spend and used as a promotion to get people to book. 

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1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

And that would mean no one 70 or over could ever cruise again unless this policy changes.

You are reading into something that was not there. You claim no one over 70 could ever cruise again and then you write the word unless so you make a claim that something will happen and in the  same sentence claim it may not happen since there could be an unless.  I said no doctor will sign such a statement for a passenger over 70 being healthy to cruise and not going to have any health issues.

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35 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

I seriously doubt that. Alcohol is the largest on board spend and used as a promotion to get people to book. 

 I started cruisng in 1988 and the largest spend was the cruise itself and then excursions and casino.  The Champagne and caviar bars were also very popular.The new culture has changed drastically in a short time period so to speak. The last few yrs we decided to cut back to maybe one or 2 cruises a yr.  We have completed 83 cruises with Princess cruise lines. We have done the 19 day RT LA Panama Canal the past 3 yrs every April and Nov. We have decided to do this because of the 7 day cruises have attracted too many day drinkers who cruise to booze and have totally enjoyed the all inclusive beverage package. I remember when it first started it was all you can drink. Then the booze was being consumed like never before without the revenue so they realized it was being ordered and shared. Then the   package had to include all passengers in the room since the new method was one passenger would purchase for both or more. Then it became the 15 drink alcohol limit and many are getting more than 15 from others who have less than 15 in a day. I mention this because for me it changed the ambience with too many day drinkers for the Mexican Riviera and  then Hawaiian Islands thereafter. I have noticed how the morning café became more like the afternoon bar for noise . The passengers sleeping all over the public areas during the day time. The volume of MUTS so loud to drown out the people noises who are partying all you can drink. Then the food changed so fast, the passenger were happy with chips and dip and burgers and hot dogs. The cocktail lounges lost al the cherries and olives and many other garnishes. The entertainment took a huge dive to just college lever production shows and comedians who tell jokes we all read on the internet already. We still love the open waters and the international flavor of the crew workers . The last few cruises we ate in the specialty restaurants, chef table ,UBD or the IC but will no longer sit in such loud dinning areas for my meals . The alcohol might just be the key marketing for the cruise lines nowadays or it might be the demise since the ships are deteriorating  at a much faster pace. The furniture is ruined in half the time with people sleeping on them and putting their shoes on the upholstery and leathers . I could give so many examples but the day drinkers have pretty much changed my plans for cruisng and now the virus . 

 

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5 hours ago, Fat Albert said:

 I remember when it first started it was all you can drink. Then the booze was being consumed like never before without the revenue so they realized it was being ordered and shared. Then the   package had to include all passengers in the room since the new method was one passenger would purchase for both or more. Then it became the 15 drink alcohol limit and many are getting more than 15 from others who have less than 15 in a day.

 

 

If Princess ever required that all adult passengers in a cabin had to purchase the package instead of just one, it was for a very short time. If actually purchasing the package, only one person can do it.

 

Of course if booking with a special promotion that includes a beverage package, all adults in the cabin would have the package since you cannot book one person under one promotion and another person under a different promotion.

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On 3/19/2020 at 11:23 AM, Tedferg said:

Does anybody know when Cruise line wants the letter ? Prior to 90 day Final Payment OK? You would think they would want it closer to sail date but then that causes problems with cancellation / refund. I understand that this is currently moot with regard to Princess.

 

Hopefully IF they ever adopt this policy it won't be based on the NCL model - they request the letter be within 7 days of sailing!

 

"The form Norwegian Cruise Line has provided must be signed by a licensed medical professional and dated no more than 7 days prior to the date a guest is looking to set sail or seven days prior to the start of their travel if they will be traveling for more than a week before their embarkation date".

 

https://cruiseradio.net/norwegian-to-cruisers-over-70-get-a-doctors-note/

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Fat Albert said:

 I started cruisng in 1988 and the largest spend was the cruise itself and then excursions and casino.  The Champagne and caviar bars were also very popular.The new culture has changed drastically in a short time period so to speak. The last few yrs we decided to cut back to maybe one or 2 cruises a yr.  We have completed 83 cruises with Princess cruise lines. We have done the 19 day RT LA Panama Canal the past 3 yrs every April and Nov. We have decided to do this because of the 7 day cruises have attracted too many day drinkers who cruise to booze and have totally enjoyed the all inclusive beverage package. I remember when it first started it was all you can drink. Then the booze was being consumed like never before without the revenue so they realized it was being ordered and shared. Then the   package had to include all passengers in the room since the new method was one passenger would purchase for both or more. Then it became the 15 drink alcohol limit and many are getting more than 15 from others who have less than 15 in a day. I mention this because for me it changed the ambience with too many day drinkers for the Mexican Riviera and  then Hawaiian Islands thereafter. I have noticed how the morning café became more like the afternoon bar for noise . The passengers sleeping all over the public areas during the day time. The volume of MUTS so loud to drown out the people noises who are partying all you can drink. Then the food changed so fast, the passenger were happy with chips and dip and burgers and hot dogs. The cocktail lounges lost al the cherries and olives and many other garnishes. The entertainment took a huge dive to just college lever production shows and comedians who tell jokes we all read on the internet already. We still love the open waters and the international flavor of the crew workers . The last few cruises we ate in the specialty restaurants, chef table ,UBD or the IC but will no longer sit in such loud dinning areas for my meals . The alcohol might just be the key marketing for the cruise lines nowadays or it might be the demise since the ships are deteriorating  at a much faster pace. The furniture is ruined in half the time with people sleeping on them and putting their shoes on the upholstery and leathers . I could give so many examples but the day drinkers have pretty much changed my plans for cruisng and now the virus . 

 

Well said. I don't think they thought this one through at all. How are they going to fill their TAs, TPs, World Cruises, off seasons, and any cruise that lasts longer than 14 days. I have cruised since the 70s and it was people like you and I who built them up to be the size they are. Their stockholders also have enjoyed what we have done for them. I am 71, healthy, but wrestling with my doctor who fears liability to sign anything like this for ANYONE of ANY AGE, nor will his insurer support. It may mean getting a new doctor, if I can find one who is less fearful. Unless these cruise lines smarten up, and drop this nonsense, they will continue to create bad will and they will sink financially, not to mention the talk going around about a class action lawsuit being formulated at this time. I hope they see the error of their ways before it's too late, their stock falls even more, and they tank. Then everyone loses. 

Edited by TYinPalmSprings

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On 3/14/2020 at 7:37 AM, KmomChicago said:

To answer the question in the title of the thread, yes, for many, our cruising days are over.  The current situation has heightened awareness of a slew of risks that were not apparent previously. The piecemeal reactions that have occurred over the past several days are nothing compared to what's coming. 

 

Separate from the outrage current and near future passengers are expressing, and the immediate risks of the current pandemic, public perception of the industry will likely cause a sharp decline in the industry, if not its demise.  First off, lots of people are afraid of water and would never cruise in the first place. Then you get people who try a cruise once and don't like the small staterooms, crowded conditions, add-on charges, or other aspects of the experience.  

 

Then you get people who still remember the Carnival Triumph "poop cruise" and the many nororvirus outbreaks, and long ago decided this whole enterprise was not for them. 

 

Now you have several incidents of shipwide quarantines followed by a coordinated agreement between the government and the cruise lines themselves, all very well publicized, planting the idea that cruise ships are a dangerous environment with a high risk of disease transmission. People will not forget this. Period. That's all.  We will see demand fall off, followed by the cancellation of several megaship pre-orders, decommissioning of some of the smaller and older ships (so long, Carnival Fantasy Class), and a contraction of the industry. It may recover gradually if it can rebuild a stellar safety record over the next few years, and through the next novel viral outbreak, and the one after that, and so on. 

...and how will any of us ever be able to trust them again in the future. If they can take our money, then change the policy after the fact, then refuse to return our money? ,,,and they get away with this theft? Would you bid on that horse in the next race?

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57 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

 I am 71, healthy, but wrestling with my doctor who fears liability to sign anything like this for ANYONE of ANY AGE, nor will his insurer support. It may mean getting a new doctor, if I can find one who is less fearful.

 

And for those who wonder why total health care costs go up, requiring all these doctor visits and possible lab tests just raises costs for the people involved as well as for insurance companies/Medicare, assuming expenses for a doctor permission slip are even covered by insurance.

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I guest filling out the medical forms they give you at the pier, has not been working .

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25 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

And for those who wonder why total health care costs go up, requiring all these doctor visits and possible lab tests just raises costs for the people involved as well as for insurance companies/Medicare, assuming expenses for a doctor permission slip are even covered by insurance.

Another thing, they are telling us in my state that we should avoid going to the doctors or medical offices in general for anything other than critical issues as the doctors have their hands full right now., and are understaffed, plus the last thing seniors need is exposure in those offices to the virus and other ailments. Some lines, like NCL want the document signed within something like 7 days before the cruise. Good luck to all trying to get an appointment and the doctors immediate approval.

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5 minutes ago, jotjot said:

I guest filling out the medical forms they give you at the pier, has not been working .

Not unless your bring your doctor with you to the pier to sign it

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We have 3 Princess cruises booked for this year - June, September and October. We haven't received any information like this (live in Australia) my Hubby is 80 and healthy, healthier than I am and I am much younger.

 

We are keeping an eye on all the issues but if we need a letter for hubby I would get it - not ideal but would do it. I already have to get a letter from my dr regarding the medications I carry.

 

Our biggest issue with cruising now is that travel insurance is so expensive for both of us - so I tried something different the other week. Hubby's travel insurance is though a company who covers over 65 and I have gone with a company known for covering pre-existing illness. Doing this we saved half the amount of the cheapest quote I had for insuring both of us and when you intend to be away for over 80 days it is a lot of money.

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