Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[waltd]

I find it hard to believe that any cruise line would issue a statement that anyone over 70 will now need a doctors letter to travel without some  advanced warning.    Unless they let passengers use their FCC or get a total refund I can see major lawsuits.    Are they really going to spend that type of money going to court?

[caribill]

4 hours ago, waltd said:

I find it hard to believe that any cruise line would issue a statement that anyone over 70 will now need a doctors letter to travel without some  advanced warning.   

 

The Passage Contract you agreed to basically says the cruise line can change anything at any time, even while you are on the cruise.

[waltd]

Just now, waltd said:

I find it hard to believe that any cruise line would issue a statement that anyone over 70 will now need a doctors letter to travel without some  advanced warning.    Unless they let passengers use their FCC or get a total refund I can see major lawsuits.    Are they really going to spend that type of money going to court?

 

Just now, caribill said:

 

The Passage Contract you agreed to basically says the cruise line can change anything at any time, even while you are on the cruise.

Agreed they can change it but  when it comes to holding thousands of dollars from a previous cruise just not a $50 credit if we can't use it or get a full refund  I think there will be lawsuits.  Contracts can and have been broken.   

[icemanoneaatl]

What we are seeing and hearing now is a public relations response.  The virus spread worldwide, and cruise lines had to make a visible stand- to say they are doing what is needed to make sure cruising is safe.  The truth, if the over 70 rule stays in place after the virus is handled- will in effect close down most cruise lines.  How to reconcile both scenarios?  After the virus is contained, either thru a vaccine or otherwise, the restrictions (verbal or actual) of over 70 will be removed.  The key is that cruiselines are seen as responding to current events- taking positions some agree are needed now  - which makes sure the cruise lines don’t completely tank in the financial market - yes drop significantly but at least remain viable.

[beg3yrs]

13 hours ago, waltd said:

 

Agreed they can change it but  when it comes to holding thousands of dollars from a previous cruise just not a $50 credit if we can't use it or get a full refund  I think there will be lawsuits.  Contracts can and have been broken.   

 

You're correct here. Contracts that are illegal are voided all the time.

[Squire5000]

I have to believe that if the cruise lines make these medical certification requirements for passengers over 70 permanent, our days of cruising may well be over.  No doctor in his right mind would sign such a certification fearing lawsuits from the patient or the cruise lines if something was undetected.  In addition, it can be hard and costly to secure a medical appointment that coincides with your cruise date.

 

We have witnessed the deterioration of the cruise product over the years.   We still cruise in February to get away from the winter weather.  We just enjoy sleeping in, havIng our meals prepared for us and just lounging around  around the pool taking it easy.  What we confront today is mediocre food, smaller cabins and balconies, being nickeled and dived to death, etc.  We are cruise devotees reaching   Elite on Princess, diamond on RCCL/Celebrity and Mariner 4 star on HAL.  Great memories, but like another person noted, if the cruise industry seeks to make it more difficult for us old timers, you’re going to see some lines go under.

[nini]

5 hours ago, icemanoneaatl said:

What we are seeing and hearing now is a public relations response.  The virus spread worldwide, and cruise lines had to make a visible stand- to say they are doing what is needed to make sure cruising is safe.  The truth, if the over 70 rule stays in place after the virus is handled- will in effect close down most cruise lines.  How to reconcile both scenarios?  After the virus is contained, either thru a vaccine or otherwise, the restrictions (verbal or actual) of over 70 will be removed.  The key is that cruiselines are seen as responding to current events- taking positions some agree are needed now  - which makes sure the cruise lines don’t completely tank in the financial market - yes drop significantly but at least remain viable.

 

57 minutes ago, Squire5000 said:

I have to believe that if the cruise lines make these medical certification requirements for passengers over 70 permanent, our days of cruising may well be over.  No doctor in his right mind would sign such a certification fearing lawsuits from the patient or the cruise lines if something was undetected.  In addition, it can be hard and costly to secure a medical appointment that coincides with your cruise date.

 

We have witnessed the deterioration of the cruise product over the years.   We still cruise in February to get away from the winter weather.  We just enjoy sleeping in, havIng our meals prepared for us and just lounging around  around the pool taking it easy.  What we confront today is mediocre food, smaller cabins and balconies, being nickeled and dived to death, etc.  We are cruise devotees reaching   Elite on Princess, diamond on RCCL/Celebrity and Mariner 4 star on HAL.  Great memories, but like another person noted, if the cruise industry seeks to make it more difficult for us old timers, you’re going to see some lines go under.

 

Thank you to both of you! I have been called a liar, troll, and lots of other non attractive nouns because of this new policy.

 

I have also told a robotic Princess rep that they will lose 50-60% of their clientele. And what about those Baby Boomer

grandparents who want to treat their kids and grandkids to a family reunion cruise? Not going to happen.

 

I as well, also call this discrimination. How many people do you know UNDER the age of 70 who may have diabetes

or other "chronic" conditions who have no business cruising? My DH just turned 70 and has none of those

conditions and exercises every day. However, try to get a physician to sign away their practice...….

 

We will wait until the last minute possible to cancel our cruises- next one is scheduled for this September.

[waltd]

Unless there is something new  in writing from the cruise lines  there is no new policy about age restrictions and as of now just hearsay.     This is going to be a long drawn out process and cruising is not going to happen any time soon.      When and if it happens  then we can worry.    

[dog]

17 minutes ago, waltd said:

Unless there is something new  in writing from the cruise lines  there is no new policy about age restrictions and as of now just hearsay.     This is going to be a long drawn out process and cruising is not going to happen any time soon.      When and if it happens  then we can worry.    

Yes!

Until I see this Policy published on the PRINCESS website I will agree with you. It is just hearsay with regards to Princess at this time.

[Potstech]

12 minutes ago, waltd said:

Unless there is something new  in writing from the cruise lines  there is no new policy about age restrictions and as of now just hearsay.     This is going to be a long drawn out process and cruising is not going to happen any time soon.      When and if it happens  then we can worry.    

By waiting until the policy comes it will be a problem for those who paid for a cruise before then and will be out thousands of dollars.  Sorry but the CLIA has already brought it up so as the saying goes " The cat is out of the bag".  Until Princess makes a statement that they are not considering this and will never implement it will always be a possibility.  Why take the chance with hard earned money.  Be prepared so that if it happens you are prepared. Take a copy of the form posted else where on here and see if your doctor will sign it.  If he says no then you know where you stand on cruising after 70 and act accordingly.  Thais what I intend to do.

 

[nini]

5 minutes ago, dog said:

Yes!

Until I see this Policy published on the PRINCESS website I will agree with you. It is just hearsay with regards to Princess at this time.

The Princess rep told me so. (yes, I know they are often not consistent)

[WmFCoyote]

13 minutes ago, waltd said:

Unless there is something new  in writing from the cruise lines  there is no new policy about age restrictions and as of now just hearsay.     This is going to be a long drawn out process and cruising is not going to happen any time soon.      When and if it happens  then we can worry.    

I agree, cruising is not going to happen anytime soon. However, lets look at another scenario that bring this all into perspective.

 

"You are 75 years old and go into a auto dealership and search for a car. You are a good driver but have had a few traffic violations. The dealer does not have an auto on hand with the features you want. He tells you, "Put a down payment on the auto and we can have the car produced at the factory. You must pay for the auto 60 days before it arrives at this dealership" You really want the auto with the features and agree to pay the deposit and at 60 days before taking possession make final payment.

 

You are notified that the auto will be delivered in 65 days and final payment is due in 5 days. You make final payment on day 60. 45 days before you are supposed to take possession  of the auto you read in the paper that the auto factory is closing for "renovation" for 60 days and all orders are canceled. You also hear that the company is proposing that drivers over 70 can not buy an auto without an "Ability to Drive" letter from their doctor or if they have had a traffic ticket (Which unfortunately you have).

 

You contact the dealership and they say not to worry because it is only a proposal and if it goes into effect they will credit you the money you paid at final payment towards another auto in the future. They offer you a FAC (Future Auto Credit) that expires in 12 months.There is no way that your tickets will just disappear. So do you take the FAC and hope the proposal does not become law? If you take the FAC and the proposal does become law what do you do with the FAC as it is worthless to you.

[waltd]

What if, What if, What if,    Nothing in writing, only proposals to the government.   If you are concerned don't place new bookings.   For those of us that are waiting for our credits we will deal with it when and if it  becomes law.   

[beg3yrs]

4 hours ago, nini said:

The Princess rep told me so. (yes, I know they are often not consistent)

And that's an excellent example of hearsay.

[caribill]

10 hours ago, waltd said:

Unless there is something new  in writing from the cruise lines  there is no new policy about age restrictions and as of now just hearsay.     This is going to be a long drawn out process and cruising is not going to happen any time soon.      When and if it happens  then we can worry.    

 

Although this has not been announced by Princess, some other cruise lines have put it in writing and were already requiring it before tyhey shut down for 30 days.

 

Two examples of the required forms are linked below:

 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Certificate-of-Medical-Fitness-to-Travel-form.pdf     NCL form

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/dam/royal/resources/pdf/rccl-approved-physician-letter.pdf      RCCL form

 

Also, here are the Carnival Cruise Line announced rules:

New Carnival Cruise Line Health Restrictions

The cruise line has announced even tighter restrictions to help protect guests and crew from the deadly coronavirus which continues to spread around the world. The new policy mainly impacts older guests who are more susceptible to the virus.

Older passengers of 70 years and older will have a much harder time getting on their cruise and here are the details released from Carnival. The following individuals will not be allowed to sail with the cruise line:

• Guests who have been hospitalized in the last two months for, or have a history of, severe or chronic medical conditions.
• Per CDC, chronic conditions are defined as an illness persisting for a long time or constantly recurring, such as diabetes, heart, kidney or lung disease, suppressed immunity (i.e., active cancer, taking steroids) or require oxygen for any reason.
• Guests who are 70 years and older, will be required to present a doctor’s “fit to sail’ letter at check-in, confirming they do not meet any of the health/medical criteria.
  If you are unable to present this letter, you will not be allowed to cruise.

https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-cruise-line-restricts-guests-more-susceptible-to-coronavirus/38342

 

[onboard2005]

I don't mind spending my money somewhere else. There are many other wonderful travel opportunities available. 

🙂

[caribill]

3 minutes ago, onboard2005 said:

I don't mind spending my money somewhere else. There are many other wonderful travel opportunities available. 

🙂

 

Very few "other wonderful travel opportunities" at the moment.

 

International travel from the USA is essentially non-existent.

 

Many states with stay-at-home requirements. No in-restaurant dining allowed.

 

Vacation spots such as Key West and Galveston forcing hotels to close for out of town visitors.

[onboard2005]

27 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Very few "other wonderful travel opportunities" at the moment.

 

International travel from the USA is essentially non-existent.

 

Many states with stay-at-home requirements. No in-restaurant dining allowed.

 

Vacation spots such as Key West and Galveston forcing hotels to close for out of town visitors.

Duh.......

Obviously my plans are for future travel!

I have no desire to go anywhere now!

[Cruiserkenn]

I think some of us are showing our cabin fever.   Let's be nice during these trying times.

[ABoatNerd]

There are many wonderful travel options excluding cruising.

 

Try land tours with Globus and a post and pre customized tour of other cities and venues. Take a  fab train trip from Zurich to Paris - totally amazing scenery. Eating in local restaurants, their real food. Enjoy their real entertainment.

 

Cruising is a limiting way to travel, with exception of certain geography that is best reached by ship.

 

Cruising lost our business before this virus with their never ending downgrading, ship design that limits interaction with the sea etc.

 

 

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

There are many wonderful travel options excluding cruising.

 

Try land tours with Globus and a post and pre customized tour of other cities and venues. Take a  fab train trip from Zurich to Paris - totally amazing scenery. Eating in local restaurants, their real food. Enjoy their real entertainment.

 

Cruising is a limiting way to travel, with exception of certain geography that is best reached by ship.

 

Cruising lost our business before this virus with their never ending downgrading, ship design that limits interaction with the sea etc.

 

 

The main advantage to cruising especially for seniors is that you travel to various locations in your hotel room eliminating the need to constantly pack, unpack and more importantly drag your luggage through train stations or to or from a bus each day.

 

If the cruise industry were to block passengers over 70 YOA it would be the death knell of the industry.  It is the retirees that have the cash and time to take these cruises, not the 20 somethings.

[voljeep]

24 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

The main advantage to cruising especially for seniors is that you travel to various locations in your hotel room eliminating the need to constantly pack, unpack and more importantly drag your luggage through train stations or to or from a bus each day.

 

If the cruise industry were to block passengers over 70 YOA it would be the death knell of the industry.  It is the retirees that have the cash and time to take these cruises, not the 20 somethings.

exactly - cruises over 7 days would really struggle to fill ships 

[Squire5000]

18 hours ago, nini said:

 

 

Thank you to both of you! I have been called a liar, troll, and lots of other non attractive nouns because of this new policy.

 

I have also told a robotic Princess rep that they will lose 50-60% of their clientele. And what about those Baby Boomer

grandparents who want to treat their kids and grandkids to a family reunion cruise? Not going to happen.

 

I as well, also call this discrimination. How many people do you know UNDER the age of 70 who may have diabetes

or other "chronic" conditions who have no business cruising? My DH just turned 70 and has none of those

conditions and exercises every day. However, try to get a physician to sign away their practice...….

 

We will wait until the last minute possible to cancel our cruises- next one is scheduled for this September.

You make a great point about people under 70.  We saw on the TV news last night that they are seeing more people between 20 and 50 coming down with the virus.  I wonder how they'll handle that group.  I see many lawsuits based on discrimination in the future for the cruise lines if they try to implement this insane policy.

[Tedferg]

10 hours ago, caribill said:

 

• Guests who have been hospitalized in the last two months for, or have a history of, severe or chronic medical conditions.
• Per CDC, chronic conditions are defined as an illness persisting for a long time or constantly recurring, such as diabetes, heart, kidney or lung disease, suppressed immunity (i.e., active cancer, taking steroids) or require oxygen for any reason.
• Guests who are 70 years and older, will be required to present a doctor’s “fit to sail’ letter at check-in, confirming they do not meet any of the health/medical criteria.

It would seem that this might be a letter that a Dr. could sign, i.e. that you have not been in hospital, long term illnesses etc. Rather than a blanket statement that this person is fit to sail 'for any reason'. 

[oskidunker]

3 hours ago, voljeep said:

exactly - cruises over 7 days would really struggle to fill ships 

They claim only 14% over 70 comprise their passengers.  Not sure if that is the case on longer cruises