Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[voljeep]

8 minutes ago, oskidunker said:

They claim only 14% over 70 comprise their passengers.  Not sure if that is the case on longer cruises

i would reckon that the longer the cruise, the older the demographic  - time and money

[Daniel A]

13 minutes ago, oskidunker said:

They claim only 14% over 70 comprise their passengers.  Not sure if that is the case on longer cruises

Who is "They"? 

[oskidunker]

Cnbc. 
Data from the Cruise Line International Association shows the average age of passengers on cruises is 47 while just 14% are 70 or older https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-cruise-industry-proposes-travel-ban-for-people-over-70.html

Edited March 29, 2020 by oskidunker

[caribill]

5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

If the cruise industry were to block passengers over 70 YOA it would be the death knell of the industry.  It is the retirees that have the cash and time to take these cruises, not the 20 somethings.

 

1 hour ago, oskidunker said:

They claim only 14% over 70 comprise their passengers.  Not sure if that is the case on longer cruises

 

It may be that age 50 is where the compromised age starts:

 

In Italy, where men so far make up 58% of infections, male deaths are outpacing female deaths and the increased risk starts at age 50, according to a report from Italy’s COVID-19 surveillance group.

https://news.yahoo.com/age-not-only-risk-severe-122533281.html 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, oskidunker said:

They claim only 14% over 70 comprise their passengers.  Not sure if that is the case on longer cruises

14% is still one passenger out of every 7. Plus there would be more affected. For instance I am over 70 while DW is only 60+. If I did not cruise, she also would not cruise. And then there are extended families where one or more of the passengers might be 70 or over while the majority are not.

 

And not only would this affect longer cruises, but certain lines tend to have a higher age demographic and would be affected more than other lines.

[onboard2005]

Those are good points.

[Potstech]

On 3/28/2020 at 4:52 PM, waltd said:

What if, What if, What if,    Nothing in writing, only proposals to the government.   If you are concerned don't place new bookings.   For those of us that are waiting for our credits we will deal with it when and if it  becomes law.   

So the CLIA POLICY or that on other cruise lines are only "Nothing in writing, only proposals"?  Guess those who posted them are wrong then.  I guess we are all going to have to accept what we want and act accordinglythen.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

14% is still one passenger out of every 7. Plus there would be more affected. For instance I am over 70 while DW is only 60+. If I did not cruise, she also would not cruise. And then there are extended families where one or more of the passengers might be 70 or over while the majority are not.

 

And not only would this affect longer cruises, but certain lines tend to have a higher age demographic and would be affected more than other lines.

I think the numbers from the CLIA may be very skewed.  If you look at their list of member companies, you will see many of the smaller companies with smaller ships that do a lot of short hops as ferries in the Med and river trips.  In order to have a more accurate figure, CLIA should break down their stats by category of types of services.  Plus, this pitch is old and was made to present to the US Government in order to get assistance.  If the US Government is to turn its back on the cruise industry then there's no reason for CLIA to voluntarily restrict its passengers.

[waltd]

Just now, Potstech said:

So the CLIA POLICY or that on other cruise lines are only "Nothing in writing, only proposals"?  Guess those who posted them are wrong then.  I guess we are all going to have to accept what we want and act accordinglythen.

Potstech we are talking about Princess Cruise Lines not what other cruise lines have adopted.    Did Princess adopt the CLIA policy?   If so please post where you saw that.  I'm sure everyone would be interested.    I have looked and have not found such.  

If and when Princess adopts the policy it brings into question will this be short term or will this be an on going policy.   No one knows yet.  Too many questions so Yes  I guess you are right we will have to accept what we want and act accordingly.   At the end of the day that is all we can do. 

 

 

 

 

[drowelf]

6 hours ago, oskidunker said:

Cnbc. 
Data from the Cruise Line International Association shows the average age of passengers on cruises is 47 while just 14% are 70 or older https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-cruise-industry-proposes-travel-ban-for-people-over-70.html

Thats a skewed statistic.

 

A more meaningful one would be a breakdown of average age based on cruise length and ship size. We primarily take cruises of 12 days and more on smaller ships (< 2000 passengers). Based on observation of the passenger demographics on our cruises, I would suspect that the average age is probably in the high 50s or low 60s and a much higher % of passengers over 70. 

 

I'm always reminded of what my professor said in the first day of intro statistics in college. He stated that their are "liars", "dam liars" and "statisticians". His went on to say that almost all statistics based on real world data can be skewed to prove just about anything you want, based on your initial assumptions and how you structure your pool. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by drowelf

[mek]

We are so fortunate that we were able to complete our Feb cruise with 4 generations - 95, 69, 46, 31, and 5.  We will never have that opportunity again.

[ontheweb]

41 minutes ago, drowelf said:

Thats a skewed statistic.

 

A more meaningful one would be a breakdown of average age based on cruise length and ship size. We primarily take cruises of 12 days and more on smaller ships (< 2000 passengers). Based on observation of the passenger demographics on our cruises, I would suspect that the average age is probably in the high 50s or low 60s and a much higher % of passengers over 70. 

 

I'm always reminded of what my professor said in the first day of intro statistics in college. He stated that their are "liars", "dam liars" and "statisticians". His went on to say that almost all statistics based on real world data can be skewed to prove just about anything you want, based on your initial assumptions and how you structure your pool. 

I heard a variation of that quotation back in high school from our debate coach. He said, "there are 3 types of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics." I was impressed until I found out he had plagiarized that from Mark TWain.

[Potstech]

2 hours ago, waltd said:

Potstech we are talking about Princess Cruise Lines not what other cruise lines have adopted.    Did Princess adopt the CLIA policy?   If so please post where you saw that.  I'm sure everyone would be interested.    I have looked and have not found such.  

If and when Princess adopts the policy it brings into question will this be short term or will this be an on going policy.   No one knows yet.  Too many questions so Yes  I guess you are right we will have to accept what we want and act accordingly.   At the end of the day that is all we can do. 

 

 

 

 

You are right we are talking about Princess Cruise Lines that will do what Carnival Corporation tells it to do in conformance with CLIA GUIDELINES. No where did I ever say that Princess has adopted it YET.

Yes it is truly IF and WHEN so you can prepare for it or ignore it until something happens. At my age and my DW's agewe will not ignore the warning signs. Our choice.

[caribill]

8 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Plus, this pitch is old and was made to present to the US Government in order to get assistance.  If the US Government is to turn its back on the cruise industry then there's no reason for CLIA to voluntarily restrict its passengers.

 

The pitch was not made in order to get rescue funds.

 

It was made to keep the US government from shutting the industry down by showing a situation like the Diamond would not happen again, with the assumption that if "unhealthy" people over a certain age would not be allowed to board, then all would be peachy keen fine. The CLIA had to propose something, anything at all, since this was at the time the Diamond had the highest number of known cases outside China.

[Daniel A]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

The pitch was not made in order to get rescue funds.

 

It was made to keep the US government from shutting the industry down by showing a situation like the Diamond would not happen again, with the assumption that if "unhealthy" people over a certain age would not be allowed to board, then all would be peachy keen fine. The CLIA had to propose something, anything at all, since this was at the time the Diamond had the highest number of known cases outside China.

I never said the pitch was to get rescue funds.  I said it was to get assistance.  There's more to assistance than money although money can help.  At this point, I'm unaware of any assistance the cruise industry has received from any governments including the U.S., Canada, Japan and the U.K.  They have left the industry and its passengers out to dry.  How many internment camps is the government running for anybody other than cruise passengers?

[dog]

Princess twitter says they did not ask for or expect money from US gov’t

[Potstech]

What internment camps are you talking about?  

[coo359a2]

2 hours ago, Potstech said:

What internment camps are you talking about?  

Probably the military hospitals where Grand P  Passengers were sent instead of going straight home when they disembarked the Grand  P

[npcl]

22 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I think the numbers from the CLIA may be very skewed.  If you look at their list of member companies, you will see many of the smaller companies with smaller ships that do a lot of short hops as ferries in the Med and river trips.  In order to have a more accurate figure, CLIA should break down their stats by category of types of services.  Plus, this pitch is old and was made to present to the US Government in order to get assistance.  If the US Government is to turn its back on the cruise industry then there's no reason for CLIA to voluntarily restrict its passengers.

The numbers do make sense:

 

It does fit with Market Watch that shows that the 60+ is 26%  of ocean cruisers

 

Keep in mind that Carnival has 22%, Royal Caribbean 19.2%, Norwegian 8.7% and MSC 7.2% of cruisers (57.1% of industry passengers)  These lines tend to be pretty family heavy with much younger demographics than normally seen on Princess.

[Potstech]

1 hour ago, coo359a2 said:

Probably the military hospitals where Grand P  Passengers were sent instead of going straight home when they disembarked the Grand  P

Not likely.

[nbsjcruiser]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:19 PM, mek said:

We are so fortunate that we were able to complete our Feb cruise with 4 generations - 95, 69, 46, 31, and 5.  We will never have that opportunity again.

Likewise, we count our lucky stars that our daughter's wedding cruise went on without a hitch in February. Nobody got sick with this terrible virus and no cancellations or missed events. We had 3 beautiful days in Fort Lauderdale prior to the cruise. I dont know when we'll have the opportunity to go to Florida again let alone with the entire family in tow. 

[onboard2005]

Celebrity Eclipse docked in San Diego yesterday. They communicated with port authority that there were no sick passengers onboard.  When they arrived and were cleared, over a thousand passengers got off and left for the airport etc..  Then the local news got a call from a man that said his stepmom was sick onboard with severe cough (pneumonia) and was on an IV. She was very sick for a week and not quarantined while onboard. They took her off and transferred her to the hospital.  They tested her and she's positive for COVID19. The news verified the info with the hospital. More passengers are to disembark today. Someone didn't communicate the correct information to the port authorities. Now all these people have left after being exposed. I realize it is not a Princess ship but this is not good news for the cruise industry that is struggling with all the bad publicity. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by onboard2005

[nbsjcruiser]

1 hour ago, onboard2005 said:

Celebrity Eclipse docked in San Diego yesterday. They communicated with port authority that there were no sick passengers onboard.  When they arrived and were cleared, over a thousand passengers got off and left for the airport etc..  Then the local news got a call from a man that said his stepmom was sick onboard with severe cough (pneumonia) and was on an IV. She was very sick for a week and not quarantined while onboard. They took her off and transferred her to the hospital.  They tested her and she's positive for COVID19. The news verified the info with the hospital. More passengers are to disembark today. Someone didn't communicate the correct information to the port authorities. Now all these people have left after being exposed. I realize it is not a Princess ship but this is not good news for the cruise industry that is struggling with all the bad publicity. 

ugh. How could they do this? If true (and I'm not doubting you just would like to see confirmation) then this is bad. It would look like they were only concerned with getting the ship in and people off so they wouldn't become another Zaandam. 

 

This is one thing that will need to change going forward once this mess is behind us. Cruise lines are going to have clean their act up.

[onboard2005]

So far the news has verified the info with the hospital.  However,  the cruise line and port authorities have been silent. I'll post an update if more info comes out. The ship is due to leave later today for Acapulco to let off remaining passengers the could not disembark in the US.

[nbsjcruiser]

1 hour ago, onboard2005 said:

So far the news has verified the info with the hospital.  However,  the cruise line and port authorities have been silent. I'll post an update if more info comes out. The ship is due to leave later today for Acapulco to let off remaining passengers the could not disembark in the US.

Looks legitimate

https://www.kusi.com/family-confirms-passenger-on-cruise-ship-docked-in-san-diego-tests-positive-for-covid-19/