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WmFCoyote

Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

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9 minutes ago, WmFCoyote said:

Just a guess on my part but PCL will probably want the doctors letter in their hands at least 5 days prior to boarding. If they are unable to verify information the passenger will be denied boarding. They will put the blame / responsibility onto the customer. In other words "If you do not provide verifiable information within our guide lines you will be denied boarding without compensation".

Ah, I thought they were expecting the letters to be presented at boarding with the rest of ones cruise documents. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, satxdiver said:

Appears as though the cruise lines have now eliminated a large part of their base.  I hope they are prepared to have a lot of extra capacity that will be sailing empty meaning of course lost revenue.  We who are over 70 will gladly take our money and use it for travel in other areas.  

 

As for turning pax away at the terminal, I predict that a lot of lawyers are about to get a lot of business.  

I am hearing from the hallways that there may be a class action lawsuit being formulated. The public damage to their business by this unwise direction will certainly be felt financially beyond the amount they would have paid in refunds and potential legal support. 

Edited by TYinPalmSprings

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24 minutes ago, satxdiver said:

Appears as though the cruise lines have now eliminated a large part of their base.  I hope they are prepared to have a lot of extra capacity that will be sailing empty meaning of course lost revenue.  We who are over 70 will gladly take our money and use it for travel in other areas.  

 

As for turning pax away at the terminal, I predict that a lot of lawyers are about to get a lot of business.  

If my whole family was denied boarding because my toddler had a teething fever, darn skippy I’d be looking for someone to sue! 😤

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17 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

I am hearing from the hallways that there may be a class action lawsuit being formulated. The public damage to their business by this unwise direction will certainly be felt financially beyond the amount they would have paid in refunds and potential legal support. 

 

I have no doubt that a class action suite is going to be filed probably in several federal courts.  This is a brain dead reaction that will reap huge amounts of bad press and a serious hit on their bottom line.  The COVID19 world scare is going to keep attorneys busy for years.  

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1 hour ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

I am hearing from the hallways that there may be a class action lawsuit being formulated. The public damage to their business by this unwise direction will certainly be felt financially beyond the amount they would have paid in refunds and potential legal support. 

I think the Passage Contract protects Princess with lines like "Carrier reserves the right to request a letter from Your physician attesting to Your fitness to travel, but by requesting such letter does not waive its right to disembark or refuse to embark"  As for myself, I have no problem requesting a letter from my doctor. My only issue is tying it to age vice potential illnesses. 

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My belief is the Cruise Line Association wanted to continue cruises during this during the COVIC-19. Using age 70 as a cut off. They then think everything is OK in the Cruise Company ranks. I just wonder how well their suggestion played with the Task Force and the CDC. Almost overnight a 30 stoppage of all cruise lines. 

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Are our cruising days over?  Hmmm, perhaps not a question to answer here at Travis waiting in quarantine off Grand...

 

We were scheduled for Coral on April 21 and had decided to take our lumps on cancellation once the outbreak on Grand was announced and it became clear we'd be going into quarantine until just 3 weeks prior to sailing.  Then the shutdown was announced making the decision for us.  

 

As a result of our Grand 100% FCC and the option 2 credit we'll get from Coral we'll have quite a bank of credit which seems too large to waste.  That's the point of these credits of course - to get we 3x per year cruisers back into the normal pattern as quickly as possible.  

 

Still, the whole experience, which has really only just started from the standpoint of quarantine, makes it impossible to see what's right or wrong for the future.  Over our boxed lunch today at Travis we both agreed that it's really quite difficult to remember much of anything from our cruise.  Yes we had a nice lunch in Hilo, yes we enjoyed a walk on the beach in Kauai.  Most of the rest of the memories are at least for the moment buried under what's happened or is happening.  

 

So, I'll say one more time, we're really not sure.  We've not cancelled our other 3 booked cruises a yet, but it's not a given we'll keep them either.  

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I wouldn't say they are over. What I do think is needed is a much better ventilation system on all ships. Part of the problem is that this virus can be carried thru vents and stale air. From what I have read a hepa type filtering system is needed. It can be done as some cost. This would be a start. 

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Remember there are a couple of players in making this proposal: the cruise lines, and the US government.   Given a lot of the cost of testing, quarantine etc is borne by the government, they’ll want a say in protecting against similar expenses going forward.    

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The reason for the original post by OP (ME) was that Princess is offering Future Cruise Credit only for those who are canceling a cruise in May for cruises sailing after 10 May when the self imposed "pause" expires. If I accepted their offer I could get a FCC that would have to be used on a cruise that sails by 31 December 2021. This sounds reasonable until the medical certification letter comes into play. . I have had diabetes for over 20 years and it is under control through medication and exercise but I have not been able to eliminate it. If you have any of the conditions listed (see quote below)and can not clear them up, the FCC could expire and the passenger would end up with out a cruise or refund.

 

"any person age 70 or older must present written verification from a qualified physician certifying that the person has no severe, chronic medical condition and is fit to travel and in good health. Additionally, any person with a severe, chronic medical condition, including those specified by the CDC – i.e. chronic heart, lung, liver, or kidney disease, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, or cancer – will be unable to sail."

 

Princess needs to provide a means for those who have paid in full to receive a refund of all monies paid to PCL if they are unable to obtain a letter from a doctor

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10 hours ago, franktown said:

Just talked to my neighbor who is a Cardiologist.  He said he would not sign for any patient under his care without complete testing which would run many thousands of dollars.  Said there is no way to know how a individual would react to the virus including those under 70.  He said and I quote " they are just trying to cover their butt"

Yes agree with that opinion.

No doubt legal advice to the industry and their insurers is the reason for these new rules. 

Attempting  to manage risk and mitigate losses. 

Many people of all ages have illnesses mental and physical that can impact their daily life, including their ability to travel.

 

 

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On 3/13/2020 at 6:48 PM, cruiserchuck said:

I would expect that after the virus runs its course (hopefully) in a few months, the requirements for a Doctor's note will be eliminated.  

It better be or Princess is toast. 70 is their prime demographic.

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10 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

It better be or Princess is toast. 70 is their prime demographic.

 

And HAL would suffer even more!  They’ll all have to rethink that policy ... 

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Luckily we have choices when we select a travel/cruise provider, albeit once all this virus crisis settles down.

Important to find a cruise experience that suits/fits your expectation.

We would look closely at any fine print and requirements and make our choice.

Many older people are fit/healthy/active and have the cash to spend for a quality and safe holiday.

Likewise with risk we would look at how providers have performed to make the experience as safe and comfortable as possible. 

In a free market it will be interesting which operators survive and thrive.  

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The claim people over 70 are only 14% of cruisers. Not on ships I go on. I am 72 and 5/years ago I felt I was the youngest one on my cruise of 21 days on the Pacific. 

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1 hour ago, oskidunker said:

The claim people over 70 are only 14% of cruisers. Not on ships I go on. I am 72 and 5/years ago I felt I was the youngest one on my cruise of 21 days on the Pacific. 

Also in the spring and summer and holidays you see many extended families.  Grandma and Grandpa who have booked a cruise for whole family.  Daughter and her husband and their 2 or 3 grandkids.

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Great a note, now they want me to go to a waiting room filled with sick people when I'm not sick , I don't think so.  

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This to me is ridiculous. What happens if a doctor signs off on someone going to a cruise and they get sick and die? Am I then liable for writing that note? My med mal insurance would skewer me. idk if any insurance company would cover that kind of med mal payout bc it's known that ppl >70 yo are at an inc risk for death from covid 19.

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Really!  What Doctor would sign such a 'release' when they might be subject to such liability issues?

 

gary

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, WmFCoyote said:

The reason for the original post by OP (ME) was that Princess is offering Future Cruise Credit only for those who are canceling a cruise in May for cruises sailing after 10 May when the self imposed "pause" expires. If I accepted their offer I could get a FCC that would have to be used on a cruise that sails by 31 December 2021. This sounds reasonable until the medical certification letter comes into play. . I have had diabetes for over 20 years and it is under control through medication and exercise but I have not been able to eliminate it. If you have any of the conditions listed (see quote below)and can not clear them up, the FCC could expire and the passenger would end up with out a cruise or refund.

 

"any person age 70 or older must present written verification from a qualified physician certifying that the person has no severe, chronic medical condition and is fit to travel and in good health. Additionally, any person with a severe, chronic medical condition, including those specified by the CDC – i.e. chronic heart, lung, liver, or kidney disease, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, or cancer – will be unable to sail."

 

Princess needs to provide a means for those who have paid in full to receive a refund of all monies paid to PCL if they are unable to obtain a letter from a doctor

I don't have any of those things but, if I do in the future when I reach the age 'cut off', would the medical portion of trip insurance cover the cost? (Personally I'm upgraded to Platinum Insurance so I've got CFAR which prompts another question)

Edited by Ombud

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6 minutes ago, Ombud said:

I don't have any of those things but, if I do in the future, would the medical portion of trip insurance cover the cost?

 

I doubt it.

 

Essentially you are canceling because you might get the virus. not because you are actually sick. That is not a medical reason.

 

But if you have the virus it is also not a reason because it is now a known epidemic and known epidemics at the time of insurance purchase are not covered.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Justalone said:


If no cruise line or government restrictions in the UK for a Fit to Travel certification is required, then go on the cruise.   What is the worse thing that could happen to you? Especially if you accept liability if , God forbid, something does happen to you or  your wife on the cruise.

Carry more medication that you need just in case you are quarantined.  At least 28 days worth?

Enjoy your cruise and safe travels.

It looks like events have overtaken us - see https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-us-extends-travel-ban-to-uk-ireland-trump-tested-for-coronavirus/news-story/49c2bc42a7241d9686f616eb05913e2e

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Posted (edited)

Are your cruising days over? 
Yes
I don’t believe in age or health discrimination.
I’m in my fifties and will give my extra cash to venues, sites, destinations, etc. that appreciate all walks of life.

discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

 

Edited by Journey99999

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25 minutes ago, Journey99999 said:

Are your cruising days over? 
Yes
I don’t believe in age or health discrimination.
I’m in my fifties and will give my extra cash to venues, sites, destinations, etc. that appreciate all walks of life.

discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

 

Completely understand your decision. I am not near 70 either and hope Princess does not put this requirement in place. I will cruise with them again though as I feel they have exceeded my expectations. 

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Let me begin with I am all for safety and taking precautions all of the time. Have been reading about the new restrictions being put on those over 70.Now granted that age puts those over 70 most at risk. This does not mean they are the only carriers. There have been much younger people affected. For one thing a trip to the doctor additional cost for people. Yes peace of mind to know you do not have the virus. They mention heart disease or diabetes which are not catching and controlled with medication , which could stop you from cruising. This to   me somewhat looking like discrimination against a certain segment of the population. Many people under 70 have these conditions which from the way it reads would stop an older person from cruising. Age discrimination I foresee lawsuits and perhaps the ACLU getting involved. If they want to be safe mandate more rigorous screening of everyone boarding. Temperatures can be taken very quickly.

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