Refund Status for canceled cruises: Retitled after merges

[ceilidh1]

Just noticed this on FB in response to someone asking about refunds:

[d9704011]

@ceilidh1 and @Steelers36  Wonder if you have any experience getting your money back from the credit card companies.  I have significant negative balances on a TD Visa and CapitalOne Mastercard (much more than I plan on needing over the the six to eight months at least).  Before I phone them and ask for a cheque, do you have any advice?

[Steelers36]

5 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

@ceilidh1 and @Steelers36  Wonder if you have any experience getting your money back from the credit card companies.  I have significant negative balances on a TD Visa and CapitalOne Mastercard (much more than I plan on needing over the the six to eight months at least).  Before I phone them and ask for a cheque, do you have any advice?

If you are just asking about a credit balance in your favor, then all you need to do is call and request it.  If you have banking with them, they can probably transfer to a bank account.  I had that in the past year and they just transferred the credit balance (from a large refund) to my bank account.

[ceilidh1]

6 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

@ceilidh1 and @Steelers36  Wonder if you have any experience getting your money back from the credit card companies.  I have significant negative balances on a TD Visa and CapitalOne Mastercard (much more than I plan on needing over the the six to eight months at least).  Before I phone them and ask for a cheque, do you have any advice?

I've never been fortunate enough to have a negative balance on my cards....lol! I did read someone else say that they had a cheque issued from their credit card company...

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

I've never been fortunate enough to have a negative balance on my cards....lol! I did read someone else say that they had a cheque issued from their credit card company...

Maybe when the Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup?!

[d9704011]

5 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

If you are just asking about a credit balance in your favor, then all you need to do is call and request it.  If you have banking with them, they can probably transfer to a bank account.  I had that in the past year and they just transferred the credit balance (from a large refund) to my bank account.

Sort of what I thought.  Naturally, I don’t keep accounts with either TD or CapitalOne so will just have to grind it out with them.  It’s worth it but I was looking for any shortcuts that may be available....

[PrincessLuver]

45 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

Just noticed this on FB in response to someone asking about refunds:

 

Wow....how rich.....just another stall tactic and I guess falsehood.  

 

Why are they posting ANNOYMOUS and vague refund timelines on FB instead of sending emails to the passengers who choose Option #2 (full refund) and received a verified email from Princess to make them aware of their refund status.  

 

As many people have stated they are out thousands of dollars but Princess is using its best business practices by saying something on their FB page that most cruisers do not follow or care about. (However, thanks to the person who posted the above information)

 

Basically nobody has received a cash refund so why do they make it seem like they are doing something and that they actually care and are honest.  

 

The end of June is way past the original 30 days they indicated and also the 60 days.  It is really sad to see how corrupt they have become and they have really tarnished their brand beyond repair I think.

 

I am sure the next timeline will be end of July and so on.  

 

I would love to be proved wrong by Princess but it seems pretty clear they have established a pattern of saying something and doing nothing in regards to refunds they promised because of their corporate actions.

Edited April 27, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[as400guy]

 First of all I am NOT a Lawyer, CPA or Carnival Corp insider.   I am an avid cruiser who is retired and has way too much time on his hands...

 

I spent some time today looking through all the documents Carnival Corp has filed with the Securities Exchange Commission since March 16.  I think we're looking under the wrong tent flap to reverse-engineer Princess' "dark" refund process.

 

First of all as of February 29, CCL reported a $4.7 billion liability in customer deposits.  In their SEC disclosures they estimated 45% of those offered FCC or refunds will choose refunds.  My back-of-the-envelope calculation makes that about a  $2 billion cash requirement just to refund those requesting it (option 2) at that point in time.

 

Second, on February 29, CCL reported approximately $1.354 billion Cash and cash equivalents on hand.   This money of course has to be available for all corporate purposes.  Elsewhere they estimated their current cash burn rate to be about $1 billion per month.

 

STARTING HERE IS MY UNEDUCATED OPINION:

So here is the problem.  Even with the April stock sale and deposits and payments from current customers there is not enough  cash to pay refunds.

 

This takes us to my third point: the $4 billion loan.

 

The loans are  to be disbursed to CCL in four releases of $1 billion each.  Each release (of CASH) is dependent on CCL perfecting the collateral (proving it exists and is not encumbered by other loans/obligations/indentures/claims) allocated to each of the releases.

 

I hope you read this far because this might be good news.   As long as CCL has not been cooking the books (stockholders will OWN the auditors if this is the case) cash should be flowing when the lenders are satisfied that corporate staff and lawyers can prove the collateral is available.

 

I have been of the thought that we might not see see our refunds for quite a while, but I'm a bit encouraged now.   My theory is that  corporate downstreamers have been working the refunds and approving the no-cash-required FCCs.   But the cash refunds are probably being held up  by  normal everyday cash reserve requirements (from existing loan covenants or board policy - pretty standard stuff).   When the loan funds are released (in four chunks) Carnival will be able to begin cash refunds.

 

Knowing what I know now I'm inclined to be a little more patient than I have been.   That being said I filed a credit card dispute on April 5.  😉

 

Don't be too hard on my in your responses.   It's been a long time since B-School.

 

All figures in USD.

 

If anyone wants a little light reading:  https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?CIK=ccl&owner=exclude&action=getcompany

 

 

[LDVinNC]

3 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

The end of June is way past the original 30 days they stated.  It is really sad to see how corrupt they have become and they have really tarnished their brand beyond repair I think.

 

Not only that but this facebook post contradicts what is on their webite, which says up to 60 days from the time of cancellation. This is what a Princess rep told me last week, too.

[Mackenzie1]

The Fed apparently helped to bail out Carnival Cruises:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/carnival-faced-higher-interest-rate-new-debt-before-fed-action-2020-4

[Mackenzie1]

And then there's this:

 

https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/carnival-deemed-too-big-to-fail-rescued-by-the-fed

[PrincessLuver]

15 minutes ago, Mackenzie1 said:

The Fed apparently helped to bail out Carnival Cruises:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/carnival-faced-higher-interest-rate-new-debt-before-fed-action-2020-4

 

13 minutes ago, Mackenzie1 said:

And then there's this:

 

https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/carnival-deemed-too-big-to-fail-rescued-by-the-fed

 

Thanks to both of these shares and information.....it definitely seems like we are being played and are just very little fish in the big CCL pond....something  is definitely up with CCL and it does not sound good?

[PrincessLuver]

34 minutes ago, as400guy said:

 First of all I am NOT a Lawyer, CPA or Carnival Corp insider.   I am an avid cruiser who is retired and has way too much time on his hands...

 

I have been of the thought that we might not see see our refunds for quite a while, but I'm a bit encouraged now.   My theory is that  corporate downstreamers have been working the refunds and approving the no-cash-required FCCs.   But the cash refunds are probably being held up  by  normal everyday cash reserve requirements (from existing loan covenants or board policy - pretty standard stuff).   When the loan funds are released (in four chunks) Carnival will be able to begin cash refunds.

 

Knowing what I know now I'm inclined to be a little more patient than I have been.   That being said I filed a credit card dispute on April 5.  😉

 

Don't be too hard on my in your responses.   It's been a long time since B-School.

 

Well thought out theory and I hope you are right.....boy do I!!!!

[dearinger]

I was originally told by my TA (and Princess) that my FCC wouldn’t apply to our cruise next February. Princess called me back today and apologized and said that I can use my FCC on our cruise. They said to call back my TA and I should be set....and they were right. 

Also, received our check back for our hotel and airline upgrades from Princess. Holy crap, be careful when you are throwing mail out because I came really close. It looked like junk mail and had a “bottom tear” envelope. I think the experienced cruisers on here said that the checks they have received in the past from OBC look like this, so I imagine it is the same company issuing them. 

I am still not happy how Princess handled all of this and honestly I will question booking with them after our next cruise. I hope the rest of you guys receive you refund quickly. Our friends who had a cancelled cruise got their refund overnight. They were on a March cruise and we were on a May cruise. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to their refund process. 

[lahore]

Wow!  I started this thread on March 14th. It's now April 28th and it's really grown. For some reason notifications hasn't been working.  I'll have to scroll back and read all the comments.  Just FYI,  my money still hasn't come through.  Grrrr...

[Cuedon]

"based on the original sailing date"? I'm still waiting on one from March 15... I think that's literally only a day or two after the start date of the cancellations?

[WNcruiser]

4 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

Just noticed this on FB in response to someone asking about refunds:

This is so beyond unacceptable it really makes me glad I filed a credit card dispute. End of June?? That’s more than a month longer than the promised 60 days. 
 

Finally received our 25% FCC. 
 

I hate to be one of those people who says I’ll never sail Princess again,  but I assure you it’s going to be a very long time before I ever give them another chance. 

[Carnevale]

9 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

I use RBC Visa and it was a no-go for me....

Did they give you a reason?  

[Carnevale]

4 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Wow....how rich.....just another stall tactic and I guess falsehood.  

 

Why are they posting ANNOYMOUS and vague refund timelines on FB instead of sending emails to the passengers who choose Option #2 (full refund) and received a verified email from Princess to make them aware of their refund status.  

 

As many people have stated they are out thousands of dollars but Princess is using its best business practices by saying something on their FB page that most cruisers do not follow or care about. (However, thanks to the person who posted the above information)

 

Basically nobody has received a cash refund so why do they make it seem like they are doing something and that they actually care and are honest.  

 

The end of June is way past the original 30 days they indicated and also the 60 days.  It is really sad to see how corrupt they have become and they have really tarnished their brand beyond repair I think.

 

I am sure the next timeline will be end of July and so on.  

 

I would love to be proved wrong by Princess but it seems pretty clear they have established a pattern of saying something and doing nothing in regards to refunds they promised because of their corporate actions.

Completely agree with you!   Wish I didn’t, but the way Princess is handling this doesn’t make it possible for me to come to a different conclusion.  The “salt in the wound” here is the fact that Princess never has bothered to communicate any updates to those of us who are waiting for our CC refunds....that is making a bad situation much worse.

[rlbeck]

On 4/21/2020 at 3:06 PM, rlbeck said:

Yes. We applied for option #2 and they must have switched us to #1. ??? Got a ton of FCCs that we really can't use in the time frame allotted. Will be calling the PCP shortly.

An update: We were the ones (above) that were somehow changed from Option #2 to #1 by Princess. We definitely wanted the cash refund along with the 50% FCC! I sent the confirmation email stating our preference as requested to Princess. Called Princess to see where the case was and was told 'relations' would be looking into it. Well, tonight Princess went ahead and applied $1889.00 each from our, what should have been 'cash', to our next year's booking. I had called our own agency yesterday and stressed to them that we do not want that to occur when the acct is transferred to them. Deaf ears. Seems as Princess is going to do whatever they deem best for them. Ugh. No cash put back on card yet either....like it seems everyone else.

[Aulanis]

As regard  the changing dates I think many of you are reading what you want to read

and are not thinking it through?

When they said 30 days  I believe that related only to the cruises they cancelled

in the first phase when they closed down operations for 60 days.

At that time  there was no lockdown  in the US and staff were probably working

normally though with  many more cases to handle.   At that time no- one really

new how long the virus would stay and how it would spread.  

At the end of March the US entered lockdown  so Princess accounting.refund staff

would be unable to go to the office?

Systems would be put in place so they could work from home but maybe all could not

do that.    From then on they they started to say it would be  60 days  but working

on the original number of cancellations and probably expecting they would resume

operations after the 60 day pause.

As the virus spread and time taken to bring it under control even more cruises were

cancelled ( some that had booked with the  first lot of refunds. So now they

are saying it could be 90 days.   I too looked at the financials and there is an article

on Forbes that someone flagged up. Yes thy have cash flow problems they are

juggling with loans, raising funds on bonds and deciding whether they can delay

payments for the new ships they are having built.

 

So it is no good saying they said 30 days if your cancellation is in the second 

phase  or 60 days  if you are in the third phase.

I also think you have to consider the amount of refunds they have to process

Looking at March - 18 ships  say 2000 passengers  5 weeks   - 180000?

every case is likely to be different.

Yes they have managed it badly  I have already said the lack of information

is the main problem for most  we have seen thay have webinars for TAs they

occasionally post on Facebook   but never seem to update on their website.

If they just said phase 1 30 days phase 2 60 days phase 3 90 days

at least everyone would not be jumping up and down saying they said 30 days.

 

My case was for a 10 March sailing and have had nothing  Some from phase

2 are saying  they have received something - is it fair no.

 

 

 

 

 

[pines46]

Hi

Princess cancelled our Far East cruise 11 days before we were due to sale on 1st March 2020, we were told we would have a full refund, we are still waiting, has anyone had a refund from this Sapphire Princess cruise yet?

We are from the UK

[lhall85917]

1 minute ago, pines46 said:

Hi

Princess cancelled our Far East cruise 11 days before we were due to sale on 1st March 2020, we were told we would have a full refund, we are still waiting, has anyone had a refund from this Sapphire Princess cruise yet?

We are from the UK

We were supposed to be on the Feb 13 Sapphire which was cancelled the day before sailing, no refund yet or FCC yet

[Aulanis]

Hi  @pines46     I have been on this thread for a while - I dont recall Sapphire being mentioned.

Did you cancel or did Princess cancel it.  What are you expecting back - did you do air through princess or was it a package through your T/A or DIY?

 

Did your replacement cruise on the 6th complete before the close down?

If so you were jolly lucky:)

I have been posting on the UK Cruisers Board to see how in general Princess is handling it

in the UK.    Is your TA the one that sounds like an ice house?

Also the us rules re cruises always seem to differ, having said that my claims - sent to

Southampton are now being dealt with in  US

My uk thread is here 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2745809-princess-cruises-uk-claims/?tab=comments#comment-59880162

though not much interest.

Another place to ask is in your roll call - I am sure there must have been some Brits on it?

 

 

[joe d]

12 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

Just noticed this on FB in response to someone asking about refunds:

June yes. But what year?