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OzKiwiJJ

Predict when cruising will start again post-Coronavirus

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12 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

Once travel between Australian states is opened, I cannot see why P&O Australia cannot operate within Australian waters. It could include Willis Island for the duty free entitlement. Unfortunately, the bad image created by the Ruby Princess incident is a big hurdle to overcome.

Crew won't be allowed into the country, for starters.

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I wonder if the citizens could mount a constitutional challenge to our closed borders? For example the Federal Government has set a precedent here by allowing a New Zealand NRL team into Australia to restart a sporting competition. Supposing responsible Australian citizens who wanted to visit friends and family overseas or travel to a safe country where it is permittable by law and they are not having a lock down, would a responsible citizen who could fund their own quarantine on return and meet all costs be able to do this? Australia has set a poor example by allowing the NRL to restart and international teams enter Australia. They cannot have rules for some and rules for others. This is going to put pressure on business leaders to lobby the government for the same fair and equal treatment for their business interests considering the government has permitted the NRL to return. I am sure cruise lines and airlines would have taken notice of this unusual exemption and would be pushing legally for some sort of exemption for safe and responsible travel.

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2 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

Crew won't be allowed into the country, for starters.

The government let NRL players from New Zealand in. I cannot see why a cruise ship crew would not be permitted if they followed the same or better conditions that the NRL proposed when they requested the New Zealand team be allowed to enter Australia.

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We have 4-5 months till our traditional cruise season but it’s not looking good.

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8 minutes ago, Battleship02 said:

The government let NRL players from New Zealand in. I cannot see why a cruise ship crew would not be permitted if they followed the same or better conditions that the NRL proposed when they requested the New Zealand team be allowed to enter Australia.

NZ is a bit different to the Philippines & Indonesia, which is where the majority of ships' crews come from.

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9 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

Crew won't be allowed into the country, for starters.

It can be done. See Home Affairs

 

"The Commissioner of the Australian Border Force (ABF) may consider an additional exemption in relation to the travel restrictions currently in place for:

 

people with critical skills (for example, medical specialists, engineers, marine pilots and crews) by exception"

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

It can be done. See Home Affairs

 

"The Commissioner of the Australian Border Force (ABF) may consider an additional exemption in relation to the travel restrictions currently in place for:

 

people with critical skills (for example, medical specialists, engineers, marine pilots and crews) by exception"

The purpose of this exemption is to allow employment of people who have skills which are not available in-country.  What, pray tell, is the critical skill possessed by a cabin steward?  Why on earth would they grant thousands of Philippino waiters & cabin stewards an exemption, which is only "by exception"?

 

While it is possible for ABF to allow these people in, the chances of it happening are somewhere less than zero.

Edited by Vader1111

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9 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

Crew won't be allowed into the country, for starters.

I disagree.  

People are still coming into Australia from overseas.  The key is that they are quarantined on arrival.  Crew could just as easily be quarantined and tested on board the ship for 2 weeks.  Australian government supervision can ensure that the testing happens. 

If any cases exist or emerge amongst crew, obviously cruises would not commence until it's all clear.  This allows for domestic cruises.  

I'm assuming passengers would be subject to screening before boarding plus other controls on board as others have suggested.  

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, geoff2802 said:

I disagree.  

People are still coming into Australia from overseas.  The key is that they are quarantined on arrival.  Crew could just as easily be quarantined and tested on board the ship for 2 weeks.  Australian government supervision can ensure that the testing happens. 

If any cases exist or emerge amongst crew, obviously cruises would not commence until it's all clear.  This allows for domestic cruises.  

I'm assuming passengers would be subject to screening before boarding plus other controls on board as others have suggested.  

The only people coming into Australia now are citizens and permanent residents.  We're not allowing foreigners into the country, with only a few exceptions.  They're not making exceptions for thousands of cabin stewards and waiters.

 

The only way domestic cruises would be allowed anytime soon, is if the ships are staffed entirely by Australians or citizens from countries within the Trans Tasman Bubble (which I expect to be expanded to include the South Pacific island nations).

Edited by Vader1111

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11 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

It can be done. See Home Affairs

 

"The Commissioner of the Australian Border Force (ABF) may consider an additional exemption in relation to the travel restrictions currently in place for:

 

people with critical skills (for example, medical specialists, engineers, marine pilots and crews) by exception"

It's already being done. The ABF has given the green light to a couple of thousand US soldiers to come to the NT.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12220902

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

The only people coming into Australia now are citizens and permanent residents.  We're not allowing foreigners into the country, with only a few exceptions.  They're not making exceptions for thousands of cabin stewards and waiters.

 

Wrong! See above.

 

So if they can make exceptions for US troops they can make exceptions for cruise ship crews.

Edited by OzKiwiJJ

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4 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Wrong! See above.

 

So if they can make exceptions for US troops they can make exceptions for cruise ship crews.

That's hilarious - that you can compare US troops with cruise ship crews!

 

The chances of them making an exception for cruise ship crews is somewhere less than zero.

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4 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

That's hilarious - that you can compare US troops with cruise ship crews!

 

The chances of them making an exception for cruise ship crews is somewhere less than zero.

Why hilarious? There is one key similarity - they all come from overseas. Personally I'd rather see the cruise ship crews here than US troops or NRL players.

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11 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

The only people coming into Australia now are citizens and permanent residents.  We're not allowing foreigners into the country, with only a few exceptions.  They're not making exceptions for thousands of cabin stewards and waiters.

From the ABS today. Not just Australian citizens or permanent residents.

Country of citizenship

 
 
Apr-19
 
 
Apr-20

New Zealand
     163,130
        1,180
India
       53,450
           990
UK(b)
     83,960
           530
Philippines
      23,070
          360
China(c)
    132,360
          320
Pakistan
         4,780
280
Indonesia
17,870
270
Germany
17,900
220
Malaysia
36,670
220
USA
63,270
200

(a) To confidentialise, estimates have been rounded to the nearest 10.
(b) Includes the United Kingdom, Channel Islands and Isle of Man.
(c) Excludes SARs & Taiwan.

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P&O or anyone else operating within the bubble will have real impediments to restarting cruising.

 

All the ships have been sent away, and would have to return.
 

The companies have tried very hard to repatriate their crews. So, they would have to re-employ. As most of the crew are from countries like the Philippines, India, etc., there will be serious questions raised over their exposure while at home.

 

I am not really sure any government would be happy/risk allowing in ships with how many ever hundreds or thousands of foreign crew in the foreseeable future.

 

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US troops? you might as well invite the Wuhan football team. I'm pretty sure that the US has the largest outbreak in the world with no sign of containment; or attempt by their "leadership" to get a handle on it.

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1 minute ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Why hilarious? There is one key similarity - they all come from overseas. Personally I'd rather see the cruise ship crews here than US troops or NRL players.

Seriously?  You think there is any similarity between the two? 😲

 

Defence is a Federal Govt responsibility, and one which doesn't go away or get shutdown just because of a virus.  Cruise Ships are big white virus incubators, which are a luxury and not a necessity.  The CMO says that we won't be travelling internationally until next year at the earliest - and cruising won't start until after flights resume.

 

The NRL players are being allowed in because they're coming from NZ.  Any other country, and it would be a non-starter, which is why Super Rugby won't be re-starting any time soon.

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Just now, Blackduck59 said:

US troops? you might as well invite the Wuhan football team. I'm pretty sure that the US has the largest outbreak in the world with no sign of containment; or attempt by their "leadership" to get a handle on it.

I think the Wuhan football team would be better tested. I read today that they plan to test all 11 million residents. No mean task.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

From the ABS today. Not just Australian citizens or permanent residents.

Country of citizenship

 
 
Apr-19
 
 
Apr-20

New Zealand
     163,130
        1,180
India
       53,450
           990
UK(b)
     83,960
           530
Philippines
      23,070
          360
China(c)
    132,360
          320
Pakistan
         4,780
280
Indonesia
17,870
270
Germany
17,900
220
Malaysia
36,670
220
USA
63,270
200

(a) To confidentialise, estimates have been rounded to the nearest 10.
(b) Includes the United Kingdom, Channel Islands and Isle of Man.
(c) Excludes SARs & Taiwan.

There are exceptions, and many of these are permanent residents.  Those numbers represent reductions of 98% or more on their pre-covid baselines.  Foreigners being allowed entry are by exception, and cruise ship crews will definitely not qualify for any exception.

 

If you'd scrolled down further on that page, you would have found the following:

1.4 All arrivals - Visa groups - provisional estimates(a)

Visa Group
Apr-19
Apr-20

Permanent Family Visas
        24,330
            990
Permanent Other Visas
        57,560
         1,450
Permanent Skilled Visas
        49,170
         1,380
Temporary Other Visas
        33,860
            570
Temporary Skilled Visas
        22,890
            160
Temporary Student Visas
        46,480
              30
Temporary Visitor Visas
      490,810
            850
Temporary Work Visas
        19,300
              40

(a) To confidentialise, estimates have been rounded to the nearest 10.

 

Permanent visa = returning permanent resident.

 

Only 1650 temporary visa arrivals for the entire month.  This shows just how exceptional these arrivals really are, and how unlikely cruise ship crews are to obtain one.

Edited by Vader1111

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15 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

That's hilarious - that you can compare US troops with cruise ship crews!

 

The chances of them making an exception for cruise ship crews is somewhere less than zero.

 

Is there a war in the Northern Territory that needs US involvement?

 

There's no 'essential' need for them to be here now, it's just something that suits the government. If there's an economic case benefiting the return of cruise ships crews, you betcha they'd also be allowed in.

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12 minutes ago, Docker123 said:


P&O or anyone else operating within the bubble will have real impediments to restarting cruising.

 

All the ships have been sent away, and would have to return.
 

The companies have tried very hard to repatriate their crews. So, they would have to re-employ. As most of the crew are from countries like the Philippines, India, etc., there will be serious questions raised over their exposure while at home.

 

I am not really sure any government would be happy/risk allowing in ships with how many ever hundreds or thousands of foreign crew in the foreseeable future.

 

 

There's nothing major there. Flights with international crew are still coming here daily. It's just a policy decision, nothing more than that, and nothing uniquely exceptional in fact.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

There are exceptions, and many of these are permanent residents.  Those numbers represent reductions of 98% or more on their pre-covid baselines.  Foreigners being allowed entry are by exception, and cruise ship crews will definitely not qualify for any exception.

Not permanent residents. The link shows the breakdown.

 

"All overseas arrivals to Australia in April 2020 (provisional estimates):
•21,600 estimated trips, 15,100 of these are Australian citizens

6.7% of all arrivals were those arriving on permanent other visas"

 

 

Edited by By The Bay

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1 minute ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Is there a war in the Northern Territory that needs US involvement?

 

There's no 'essential' need for them to be here now, it's just something that suits the government. If there's an economic case benefiting the return of cruise ships crews, you betcha they'd also be allowed in.

Australia has an agreement with the USA, which sees them permanently basing a battalion or so in the NT.  It's a long-standing arrangement.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

Not permanent residents. The link shows the breakdown.

 

"All overseas arrivals to Australia in April 2020 (provisional estimates):
•21,600 estimated trips, 15,100 of these are Australian citizens"

 

Therefore 6,500 foreign citizens.

3820 of those 5470 are permanent residents (citizens of foreign countries who have the right to live here permanently).  Only 1650 arrivals were foreigners on temporary visas, which shows just how exceptional these arrivals are - and how limited the exemptions.

 

Cruise ship crews will not be getting exemptions, allowing them into the country.

Edited by Vader1111

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10 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

Cruise Ships are big white virus incubators, which are a luxury and not a necessity

I think that is a bit of speculation and overstating the mark. I do not believe cruise ships are virus incubators as the media would have you believe. If everyone is healthy who boards them then no viruses would be on them. A football field is a bigger place to incubate viruses and even the stadium with all the crowds. I could argue that travel is a necessity. It provides mental stimulation and emotional support to some people in more and better ways than therapy and medication will provide. It destresses people and builds up their mood and improves their way of life. If anything international travel and cruise ship travel has its health benefits physically, mentally and intellectually. For some people a trip on a cruise ship could do more help than six months of anti-depressant medication. For the person stressed out at work a holiday is just the thing you need to brighten your mood. I think cruise ships do more benefits to society and I do not consider them a luxury if the life we lead can use them to our benefit.

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