Ideas to restart people cruising over coming months

[TAD2005]

When a cruise ship would develop 10 - 20 cases of Noro-virus,  it would be news somewhere, and gone the next day.  The coronavirus seems, so far, more contagious but the final numbers will not be in for many months.   But when this all settles down in a few months (hoping) and cruises resume, what will happen when one guest onboard a ship has to be taken to a hospital for any kind of respiratory disease at a port ?   That news will spread like wildfire, and the government health ministers in the next ports on the itinerary will start getting nervous.   They certainly do not want to be the "guy in charge" who allows that ship to dock, so to save his own butt, he will block docking of that ship.   That news will also travel like wildfire in our social media society.  Ports next on the itinerary will think, "what does that health agent know that we don't", and to play it safe, the next port will be closed to that ship.  And the domino effect takes over.   I hope this doesn't happen, but the media just loves to embellish bad news about the cruise industry, mostly to generate ratings and clicks.   We have an Oct 2020 Rotterdam cruise and a Sept 2021 Ryndam cruise booked.   Right now, we are wondering if this will be winding down in time for a July 3rd final payment.

 

I also think the Walmart comments by member Donald from China are despicable, and politically motivated.  That kind of trashing of people just because you don't fit within their social structure does not belong on CC.  Do it on Twitter or Facebook, if that kind of trash-talk makes you feel superior..

Edited March 18, 2020 by TAD2005

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, TAD2005 said:

I also think the Walmart comments by member Donald from China are despicable, and politically motivated.  That kind of trashing of people just because you don't fit within their social structure does not belong on CC.  Do it on Twitter or Facebook, if that kind of trash-talk makes you feel superior..

 

Just a reminder...you can always report a post if you feel it violates CC community guidelines. 

[Aquahound]

19 hours ago, john2003 said:

As a Canadian I am disappointed at the underlying thinking here. Seattle is a hotspot. Schools are closed in the San Diego area. San Francisco is serious. NY is very worried. 

So why is the problem Canada closing its ports?  We know from the Diamond Princess what happens if you put a positive into a cruise ship. Also the Med and Caribbean are certainly not as open to cruise ships as suggested. Not sure if we know if Alaska wants them either at the moment. 

 

I wouldn't say it's the underlying thinking of most.  It was just one person making bizarre comments.  

 

I don't think anyone wants cruise ships right now.  We're doing what we can in Seattle to flatten the curve so the last thing we want is cruise ships attracting thousands of people from who-knows-where funneling through our streets and businesses.  

 

And I can assure you that Alaska doesn't want them.  They were ready to riot just at the thought of the empty Westerdam being stored up there.    

[kazu]

20 hours ago, DeeniEncinitas said:

I so agree with you Jacqui!

I am sorry you too were affected by the mass canceled cruises across the board!

I received today from my navigator app a reminder from The Rotterdam about our reservation at 5:30 for dinner at Sel de Mar! I felt sad 😞 because we would of been cruising out of Hautulco ! I still feel 

empty but safe to be home! I guess I will say A Happy Anniversary to you and Jose in advance that you were going to celebrate on your cruise!

Denise😊

 

 

Thanks kindly Denise for the anniversary wishes.

Sadly, a lot of us are caught in this.  I for one am grateful I am not stranded somewhere and are at home despite my anguish at cancelling all my plans.

 

Stay safe and healthy all

[DeeniEncinitas]

18 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Thanks kindly Denise for the anniversary wishes.

Sadly, a lot of us are caught in this.  I for one am grateful I am not stranded somewhere and are at home despite my anguish at cancelling all my plans.

 

Stay safe and healthy all

I agree! I was worried we’d be in Paris and not be able to get home!!!

Love to you and Jose!

Oh yes also your furry babies too!

Denise😊

[Queen of DaNile]

I think it's going to be a long time before cruising restarts:

 

The Department of State advises U.S. citizens to avoid all international travel due to the global impact of COVID-19.  In countries where commercial departure options remain available, U.S. citizens who live in the United States should arrange for immediate return to the United States, unless they are prepared to remain abroad for an indefinite period.  U.S. citizens who live abroad should avoid all international travel.  Many countries are experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and implementing travel restrictions and mandatory quarantines, closing borders, and prohibiting non-citizens from entry with little advance notice.  Airlines have cancelled many international flights and several cruise operators have suspended operations or cancelled trips.  If you choose to travel internationally, your travel plans may be severely disrupted, and you may be forced to remain outside of the United States for an indefinite timeframe.

[kangforpres]

How about re configuring the ships HVAC system to be like a Hospital's Hepa HVAC systems. I know it would be expensive but they are going to be getting  Ten's of billions of taxpayer bailout $. I know I would book on a Hepa HVAC ship before a traditional HVAC system.

 

It would be a great selling point, otherwise the entire industry has a toxic brand image right now, those who where on the fence about ever going on a cruise will most likely never go on a cruise now.

 

-Paul

[dockman]

53 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

How about re configuring the ships HVAC system to be like a Hospital's Hepa HVAC systems. I know it would be expensive but they are going to be getting  Ten's of billions of taxpayer bailout $. I know I would book on a Hepa HVAC ship before a traditional HVAC system.

 

It would be a great selling point, otherwise the entire industry has a toxic brand image right now, those who where on the fence about ever going on a cruise will most likely never go on a cruise now.

 

-Paul

I saw that being discussed on some of the financial stock guru pages.  I have also been told that silverseas apparently has a few of their rooms so equipped for people with severe allergies etc.  

I guess one big problem is opening lanai doors which of course airplanes don't have....not sure if hospital windows open or not?

 

I keep dreaming that some bio tech company will come up with some type of ultraviolet type light that would kill off most nasty bugs when u walk through/board via the security checkpoints...wouldn't that be wonderful?

[AncientWanderer]

1 hour ago, kangforpres said:

How about re configuring the ships HVAC system to be like a Hospital's Hepa HVAC systems. I know it would be expensive but they are going to be getting  Ten's of billions of taxpayer bailout $. I know I would book on a Hepa HVAC ship before a traditional HVAC system.

 

It would be a great selling point, otherwise the entire industry has a toxic brand image right now, those who where on the fence about ever going on a cruise will most likely never go on a cruise now.

 

-Paul

 

It's true.  We've probably all learned more than we ever wanted to know about the air on ships.

 

That said, I can't wait to get onboard again, and probably many others feel the same way.  We are booked for Antarctica early 2021 and South Pacific early spring 2021, and until then, I feel a big void.  I hope things stabilize so we can book something for later this year.  There is NOTHING like being at sea.

[Doubt It]

Add up the negatives - degraded flying these days, reduced quality on all cruise lines, risk/liability for viruses in densely populated venues.

 

No thank you and it is not about this particular virus - my group members all feel that the value of cruising was in a dive before the virus, notwithstanding the high bookings before the virus.

 

For us, this virus is the nail in the coffin of cruising.  

 

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Queen of DaNile said:

I think it's going to be a long time before cruising restarts:

 

 

All true, but what we don't have is a firm idea of what "a long time" means -- whether we're talking 2-3 months or 6-9 months.

 

For me, 2-3 months seems like a relatively short time given how frequently I can get time off work to vacation. For others that might seem like an eternity.

 

 

[npcl]

On 3/18/2020 at 4:20 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

You do not think the virus is under control in China, where they have been reporting fewer than 50 new cases per day for the past 7-10 days?  (As compared with Italy's 4,000+ today, or nearly 3,000 in the US...)

However, they are still reporting cases, and for that matter Wuhan and some other parts are still on lock down. Wuhan lock down expected to end mid-April. If you totally trust their numbers.

 

There is not anywhere that once they have had local spread has had case counts go to zero.  For cruising to restart the expectation would have to be very low chance of getting cases on board.  Don't think anywhere meets that level of control at this time.

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, npcl said:

However, they are still reporting cases, and for that matter Wuhan and some other parts are still on lock down. Wuhan lock down expected to end mid-April. If you totally trust their numbers.

 

There is not anywhere that once they have had local spread has had case counts go to zero.  For cruising to restart the expectation would have to be very low chance of getting cases on board.  Don't think anywhere meets that level of control at this time.

Not true. China has, I believe,  48 hours without a new case. China has been encouraging people to return to work, and factories to re-open for 2 weeks now.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Not true. China has, I believe,  48 hours without a new case. China has been encouraging people to return to work, and factories to re-open for 2 weeks now.

They said that they had zero one day.  The next day more cases appeared (48 I believe), the next day 2.

Todays report from China as posted on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ shows 39 new cases.

 

China in some places has had people go back to work, but Wuhan is not one of them.  On TV report on ABC they were interviewing someone from Wuhan who stated that lock down was supposed to end in Mid April.  

 

Even Singapore is still getting new cases, a few each day.  No one that has community spread is getting zero.  Control basically means slow spread.  Doubt the cruise lines will be able to restart with that.

Edited March 20, 2020 by npcl

[cruisemom42]

7 hours ago, npcl said:

No one that has community spread is getting zero.  Control basically means slow spread.  Doubt the cruise lines will be able to restart with that.

 

Exactly, which is why I posted above -- 'under control' is not the same as eradication.

 

At some point I think cruise ships will restart (as will most other things) as I do not think we are going to eradicate COVID-19 and not see any more cases. But that's not certain, of course...

Edited March 20, 2020 by cruisemom42

[cbr663]

11 hours ago, Doubt It said:

Add up the negatives - degraded flying these days, reduced quality on all cruise lines, risk/liability for viruses in densely populated venues.

 

No thank you and it is not about this particular virus - my group members all feel that the value of cruising was in a dive before the virus, notwithstanding the high bookings before the virus.

 

For us, this virus is the nail in the coffin of cruising.  

 

 

 

Yesterday my wife and I completed HAL's questionnaire about our ideas about cruising, and for me, one of the sticking points is the densely populated venues.  The whole industry has been moving toward larger ships with more and more people and this very business model increases the risk for all who sail.  The industry has to move away from this business model in order to reduce this risk.  Flash sales, increasing screening prior to boarding and implementing different cleaning protocols onboard will not address the core risk issue - too many people in one area.

 

My wife also told HAL in her response that flags of convenience need to change.  Laws need to be changed so that if a ship is registered in a particular country that country must allow that ship to dock.  That would be one of the requirements of allowing a ship to register in a particular country.  That way, when this happens again, and it will happen again, passengers know that at the very least the ship can sail to its flag county and passengers can disembark.

[CruiserBruce]

7 hours ago, npcl said:

They said that they had zero one day.  The next day more cases appeared (48 I believe), the next day 2.

Todays report from China as posted on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ shows 39 new cases.

 

China in some places has had people go back to work, but Wuhan is not one of them.  On TV report on ABC they were interviewing someone from Wuhan who stated that lock down was supposed to end in Mid April.  

 

Even Singapore is still getting new cases, a few each day.  No one that has community spread is getting zero.  Control basically means slow spread.  Doubt the cruise lines will be able to restart with that.

ABC News is again this morning reporting no new cases for 48 hours.

[Wehwalt]

33 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Exactly, which is why I posted above -- 'under control' is not the same as eradication.

 

At some point I think cruise ships will restart (as will most other things) as I do not think we are going to eradicate COVID-19 and not see any more cases. But that's not certain, of course...

I expect very limited cruising for the rest of the year. Even if they flatten the curve, there will be an expectation that the virus will return in the fall. We saw in Alaska that there was protest against the Westerdam going there and it isn't going there. I don't think we're going to be as welcome a lot of places as we once were. Plus persuading people to get back on ships when the trips could turn into voyages of the damned overnight is going to be an issue.

[Doubt It]

cbr663, excellent analysis.

 

The cruise line trend towards huge ships amplifies the venue density risk for all infectious diseases, not just the current virus.  This is a deliberate decision by cruise lines to increase their profit.

 

The flag of convenience is also an excellent recommendation - shipping companies have made deliberate decisions to use this to avoid the more stringent requirements of more westernized democratic countries.

 

I would suggest the chicken is coming home to roost for the cruise lines.

 

When a passenger has a less than stellar experience on a cruise ship, often their response is - they hide behind the contract and maybe, provide only FCC.  The guest relations staff on cruise ships are among the least helpful customer service staff in the world to be frank.

 

In contrast, the occasional time I have had a poor hotel visit - I  have generally received the night at no charge or part charge ie cash is returned to me.

 

I am not the only poster on these boards who have observed that the customer service of cruise lines is significantly worse than the customer service of land based companies like hotels etc. That is one reason our large group has moved much of our business away from cruise lines.

 

 

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

32 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

I expect very limited cruising for the rest of the year. Even if they flatten the curve, there will be an expectation that the virus will return in the fall. We saw in Alaska that there was protest against the Westerdam going there and it isn't going there. I don't think we're going to be as welcome a lot of places as we once were. Plus persuading people to get back on ships when the trips could turn into voyages of the damned overnight is going to be an issue.

This is a case of panic and fear blocking the facts. Westerdam NEVER had a corona case on board, and as far as we know, still doesn't. In fact, I am not aware any HAL ship has had a corona case on board.

[npcl]

57 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

ABC News is again this morning reporting no new cases for 48 hours.

look at the web sites that track the cases. the one I listed, john hopkins, etc.

[gilboman]

12 hours ago, npcl said:

However, they are still reporting cases, and for that matter Wuhan and some other parts are still on lock down. Wuhan lock down expected to end mid-April. If you totally trust their numbers.

 

There is not anywhere that once they have had local spread has had case counts go to zero.  For cruising to restart the expectation would have to be very low chance of getting cases on board.  Don't think anywhere meets that level of control at this time.

Wuhan is at 0 now and Starbucks has reopened their Wuhan store even

 

rest of country is back to "normal" with all major retailers, restaurants opening up for a while now. 

[kangforpres]

I think it's very unconscionable for HAL or any line to be selling cruises that sail on 04-15-20, that's obviously not going to happen. California alone is "sheltering in place" until further notice.

 

-Paul

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Wehwalt said:

I expect very limited cruising for the rest of the year. Even if they flatten the curve, there will be an expectation that the virus will return in the fall. We saw in Alaska that there was protest against the Westerdam going there and it isn't going there. I don't think we're going to be as welcome a lot of places as we once were. Plus persuading people to get back on ships when the trips could turn into voyages of the damned overnight is going to be an issue.

 

With the virus now present in 183 countries and territories globally, there will come a point after which quarantining will serve no purpose. Who are they protecting if the infection is already there? I could understand maybe a small Polynesian island without COVID-19 cases saying no, but major ports will have no good reason unless there is a raging infection aboard the ship (a la certain % of norovirus impacted cruises).

 

After we (hopefully) flatten the curve, coronavirus will still be present but presumably will become much more like flu -- e.g., we cannot stop it but we can control its effects via immunity (previous cases, vaccines) and better treatments.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

ABC News is again this morning reporting no new cases for 48 hours.

 

Worldometer, which I've been following for over a month now and is a highly regarded reference, shows 39 new cases for China reported yesterday. The previous day there were 50-something if I remember correctly.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Not sure where ABC news is getting their info...