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Markanddonna

Since MSC owns cargo ships...

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Do you think they may be to weather the financial storm better than the other cruise lines? They should be able to maintain some business even if it is reduced.

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2 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

Do you think they may be to weather the financial storm better than the other cruise lines? They should be able to maintain some business even if it is reduced.

 

With NCL apparently in a good position (among the public companies) with an estimated costs of $140 million a month and available funds/loans of $1.6 billion, I doubt anyone knows about MSC as it's privately owned.

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MSC Cruises is a subsidiary of Mediterranean Shipping Company S.A. (MSC), a privately owned company.

 

MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company S.A. (MSC) is the world’s second largest shipping line with more than 500 vessels, over 70,000 employees and 480 offices worldwide.

Revenue: over USD 28 billion.

(source: https://moverfocus.com/shipping-companies/ )

 

MSC Cruises has posted net income of 348 million Euros on revenues of 2.6 billion Euros for 2018.

(source: https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/20740-msc-cruises-posts-2018-financial-results.html )

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Yes I think that MSC will be intact long after this situation.

However, CCL corp will be a far smaller company, too big at the wrong time. Princess is a gonner that is for sure.

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LOL- slightly off topic. On my Armonia cruise this past week, a trivia question was "What does the initials MSC stand for?"

 

I was the only one who knew the answer.

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2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

LOL- slightly off topic. On my Armonia cruise this past week, a trivia question was "What does the initials MSC stand for?"

 

I was the only one who knew the answer.

 

That question was asked on my Meraviglia cruise.  I was not participating in the game and I knew the answer.  No one else did.

 

So much for the importance of researching the product one is buying!

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2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

LOL- slightly off topic. On my Armonia cruise this past week, a trivia question was "What does the initials MSC stand for?"

 

I was the only one who knew the answer.


Mediterranean Shipping Company 

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14 hours ago, quattrohead said:

Yes I think that MSC will be intact long after this situation.

However, CCL corp will be a far smaller company, too big at the wrong time. Princess is a gonner that is for sure.

 

Princess is owned by CCL corp.

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On 3/18/2020 at 1:29 PM, quattrohead said:

Yes I think that MSC will be intact long after this situation.

However, CCL corp will be a far smaller company, too big at the wrong time. Princess is a gonner that is for sure.

 

Interesting, I'm betting CCL comes out the best after all the dust settles. Sometimes the largest means the most staying power. Plus, Someone needs to buy NCL 😉 

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23 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Interesting, I'm betting CCL comes out the best after all the dust settles. Sometimes the largest means the most staying power. Plus, Someone needs to buy NCL 😉 

 

I agree with your thinking.  Looking at the end of the Market results this afternoon, CCL's price improved by the largest percentage of the 3 majors.  

 

Since MSC is privately owned, one cannot determine how deep their pockets are.  But, the really big ships of NCL does seem to fit MSC's business model.  They are interested in expanding their footprint in the North American market.  Some of the NCL smaller ships might fit that plan, i.e. a West Coast deployment to Mexico and Alaska.

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On 3/19/2020 at 8:34 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Interesting, I'm betting CCL comes out the best after all the dust settles. Sometimes the largest means the most staying power. Plus, Someone needs to buy NCL 😉 


CCL has a ton of ships on order for all of its divisions. They are over leveraged and will have a problem when that debt comes due. 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, UPNYGuy said:


CCL has a ton of ships on order for all of its divisions. They are over leveraged and will have a problem when that debt comes due. 

 

They all have debt ratio issues. If you are talking purely about the number of ships on order as a liability, I believe MSC would hold that title. Survival of any of the big three ior four if you include msc) is not guaranteed by a long shot. I suspect we will come out of this with at least one less cruise line to choose from.

Edited by BermudaBound2014

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5 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

They all have debt ratio issues. If you are talking purely about the number of ships on order as a liability, I believe MSC would hold that title. Survival of any of the big three ior four if you include msc) is not guaranteed by a long shot. I suspect we will come out of this with at least one less cruise line to choose from.


But MSC is a subsidiary of a container shipping line and is better banked than the big 3. 

agree with the rest though. Wouldn’t surprise me if it would be lines that compete for the same demographic within the same parent company, like Holland America and Princess merge or fold. One of them is likely going. This is complete and total speculation on my part though.  I think we will also see some new ship orders cancelled. 

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I agree with you completely- which is why I prefaced my MSc comment with “if you are purely talking number of ships....”. With the shipping company as a parent, I suspect MSc might fare well in the shakedown.

 

Pure speculation on my part Is that the “princess” title won’t survive - too many issues with princess ships (even if it wasn’t their fault). Ccl has too many smaller companies and could probably benefit from consolidating.
 

I’ve done Pretty well with short sales on all the lines, but it’s a crap shoot. Currently I’m not holding any.  Carnival postponed their “big” announcement from today at 10:30 to Monday. That will drive the market some.

 

interesting times for sure 
 

 

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1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I agree with you completely- which is why I prefaced my MSc comment with “if you are purely talking number of ships....”. With the shipping company as a parent, I suspect MSc might fare well in the shakedown.

 

Pure speculation on my part Is that the “princess” title won’t survive - too many issues with princess ships (even if it wasn’t their fault). Ccl has too many smaller companies and could probably benefit from consolidating.
 

I’ve done Pretty well with short sales on all the lines, but it’s a crap shoot. Currently I’m not holding any.  Carnival postponed their “big” announcement from today at 10:30 to Monday. That will drive the market some.

 

interesting times for sure 
 

 

 

It absolutely is.

 

taking the opposite look on this from a speculative standpoint, one could say they could wind down Holland America, as Princess has a broader and deeper brand recognition. The older and smaller R-Class HAL ships could be sent to P&O Australia (where they typically go). The S Class could be scrapped entirely. The Vistas, Signatures, and Pinnacles could be spread around the remaining enterprises. HAL has publicly said the S and R class ships are not profitable (or as profitable as they should be).  
 

my rationale for this is that the younger generation by and large has no idea what HAL is, but has at least heard of Princess. Other end is if HAL stays around I see the S and R class ships all going and the smallest ships being vistas. 

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I see your point- the small s\r class aren’t profitable in the mass market lines BUT... after this, will people be more skeptical of the big ladies?

 

It will take a long time for people to forget The name diamond and grand princess- and wtheck is going on with coral? 

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MSC have a number of crew currently ill on Grandiosa, Fantasia had at least one confirmed passenger with Covid 19, At least three Costa ships have had the same this is not confined to just Princess.

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The next economic hit for the maritime industry will be the shipyards in Europe/Asia.  There's going to be some changes in the Order Book coming, I think.  

 

I wonder what Mr. Bronson is thinking these days.  (What a time to introduce Scarlet Lady to the North American market?)

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2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

The next economic hit for the maritime industry will be the shipyards in Europe/Asia.  There's going to be some changes in the Order Book coming, I think.  

 

I wonder what Mr. Bronson is thinking these days.  (What a time to introduce Scarlet Lady to the North American market?)


im thinking Virgin might turn turtle and the ship and successors might go to Norwegian in place of the Leonardo Class. 

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Thinking NCL weakest.  Virgin, not sure.  Their ship and aim a bit different.  First glimpse seemed over hyped.

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22 hours ago, sidari said:

MSC have a number of crew currently ill on Grandiosa, Fantasia had at least one confirmed passenger with Covid 19, At least three Costa ships have had the same this is not confined to just Princess.

 

Let's try this again..... @sid Of course other ships have had covid19. I never suggested corona was confined to Princess. What I do claim is that Diamond Princess and Grand Princess have been mentioned infinitely more in the press, at least here in the USA; therefore  it is much more likely that there will be a connection between covid19 and the princess name. That is the rational I have used for post #14.

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Posted (edited)

BB ... I get what you say, many on here claimed Costa would fold after the Concordia disaster or the ships would be absorbed into the other Carnival brands and what happened, Costa are still sailing today and with new ships. Princess may be remembered by some re the Virus but like Concordia over time memories fade and people forget.

Our booking for Alaska in September is with Princess where it will remain.

Edited by sidari

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Posted (edited)

Sid Costa still gets a really bad rap here in the USA. I think we may hold grudges longer on this side of the pond. Regardless, this is all speculation and time will tell. I see you are going on Ruby. I spent a lovely 19 nights on her back in 2011, she is lovely. Ironically, my southwest air voucher for the MSC cruise I am about to miss next week must be used by September and we are looking at Alaska! So, here's hoping Alaska eventually opens up for the 2020 season for us both!!!

 

PS:you probably already know this, but the big CCL announcement scheduled for Friday was postponed to Monday at 10:30 a.m EST. I have no idea when that will be for you 🙂

Edited by BermudaBound2014

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We sailed Ruby in 2008 on the third sailing and in 2009 both in the same room L106 and with the same Captain and Staff Captain on both occasions, we sailed Majestic a few weeks after it left the shipyard and hopefully in September we will still be on the Royal. The announcement will be around 3.30 UK time.

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1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Costa still gets a really bad rap here in the USA. I think we may hold grudges longer on this side of the pond.

 

Not with me.  The problem I have has been making a booking with them using an American based major non-box store travel agency.  The same issue has been experienced with P & O Australia.  

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