Deposit Refund

[Tom O.]

56 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Based on my experience on Oceania (just one and I know it’s not everyone’s), for me, it wasn’t premium and the line did nothing about it.

 

Prinsendam offered a more premium experience than Oceania did despite it’s 4 specialty restaurants with it’s microwaved pasta 😞 

 

Kazu, I have never cruised on Oceana, Viking, or any other premium cruise line. I just pulled those two names out of the air. But I have read lots of reviews from people who say that premium lines are like cruising in the old days when dinners were truly gourmet, and service was exemplary.

I've always said that I would rather go on two cruises on HAL rather than one cruise on a premium line (for the same price).

So, when I want a premium dining experience I go to the Pinnacle Grill.

[love_the_sea]

I cancelled a May 26 Canada cruise that I had made full payment on without HAL cancelling (even though most of the ports were Canadian and we wouldn't be going there). I wanted to get all of my payment except for the deposit back. At the same time I also cancelled the 2020 World Cruise anticipating getting my rather large deposit back. The cruises are no longer shown on my account on Holland America but I have heard nothing about a refund. The cancellations were done March 20.  A few days before that I had cancelled my excursions that had been booked online and those refunds were processed within a couple of days.  I have now just "written off" the almost $5,000 that HAL owes me as a bad debt.  There are many on this site that have expressed that we who wanted money instead of FCC were being disloyal to HAL.  I am sorry, although I have thoroughly enjoyed my many HAL cruises (I lack 9 nights of being 4 stars), my relationship to them was a business one and I am very upset that it appears they are just ignoring me.  The least they could do is tell us we aren't going to get our money and not just leave us hanging. 

[Vacation00]

3 hours ago, echoshipmate said:

This entire refund issue seems a little "Ponzi scheme" ish. Relying on new monies in, to pay old obligations out. Must be patterned after our government's social security system. Only difference is our government owns the money printing presses and HAL doesn't. Good luck to all of us.

You hit the nail on the head. I agree. 

[iancal]

I think that it just good marketing.   Customers are blinded by sales.  Jack up prices 50 percent, then offer a 50 percent sale and watch them swoon in.

 

In the case of cruise lines I suspect people are blinded by the 125 percent offer.  From my perspective that offer is a joke.  I would want my money returned ASAP thank you.  I would not be swayed by artificially high cruise prices.

 

It is in the cruise line interest to massage the booking numbers as much as possible to create a sense of urgency on the part of customers.  One of the first learnings in even the most basic sales training courses is to create a sense of urgency with your customer.  It works.  That why most sales stress and end date and a 'hurry up don't miss out' tag.  

 

The cruise lines will do whatever is necessary to promote the selection of FCC's to create a sense of urgency that future cruises are booking up fast and that the prices of those cruises are therefore increasing.

 

Instead, look around and ask your friends if booking cruises is top of mind for them.  Better yet, speak with a few very experienced TA's who usually have a very healthy cruise book of business.  Ask them if there is a rush  to book....other than those with FCC's.   Take a look at how many people are facing financial adversity because of the covid situation. Do you think they are rushing to book cruises or indeed that they will even be considering a cruise over the next 18 months or so because of their current or anticipated financial situation?

 

Some customers are inexplicably willing to give the cruise lines even more money for deposits when they have FCC's that the cruise lines are being very slow to process for one reason or another.  To me, that is a sign of how convoluted the market is at the moment.   

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by iancal

[Tom O.]

Just a heads up.

I received an email from Delta Airlines last night, where the CEO announced a new policy for all canceled flights through Sept 30th. If you cancel your non-refundable flight you will get Delta E-Credits to fly in the future. These E-Credits are good until Sept. 30th, 2022.

So, I canceled our flights to Copenhagen next August. I had already canceled our Baltic cruise with HAL, so I was thrilled with this new policy. I thought the money I paid for our flights was lost.

I would assume other airlines will soon follow suit.

I have no doubt that major airlines will survive this pandemic, flying is a necessity in this modern world. So, I do not hesitate to accept future flight credits. But I don't have the same confidence in the cruise industry, because cruising is not a necessity. So, I would be very hesitant to accept future cruise credits. 

[ChinaShrek]

22 hours ago, Tom O. said:

I see only two scenarios where we will get any refunds.

1. The cruising industry will return to normal, and HAL will get over its cash flow problem.

2. HAL will go bankrupt, and when the courts liquidate all of its assets, there may be enough cash to pay us off.

 

The problem with 1 is that this would probably not occur for a long time, and it may never happen.

 

The problem with 2 is two fold: (a) Courts take a long time, and it could be years before we got any money back; and (b) The main asset they have is their ships - If the entire cruise industry collapses, those ships will be hard to sell and may not sell for a decent price.

 

I guess I am a pessimist.

 

I think you are way too pessimistic. Even if the company files for bankruptcy (Chapter 11) and the company's debt is forgiven and our refunds go away, someone else will swoop in and buy them. This new, leaner company will want customers.  Where do you find new customers?  Contact the old ones. I believe they will want to create a wave of positive feelings and they will offer coupons or special deals for those customers who never got a refund (or only received a partial refund). Frankly, I'm okay losing $500 this year if in two or three years they offer me a free cruise or a deeply discounted one.  I think everyone just needs to think outside the box.

[Mnfirechief]

They would be more likely to have customers accept FCC if the offer was sweeter. 125% is just not enough. I only have $900 at risk for future cruise deposits and I was quick to request a refund instead of FCC. Maybe I will get my refund some day, but I would have probably accepted 200% future cruise credit if that was the deal. 

[iancal]

If a cruise line goes bankrupt the chances of an unsecured creditor, ie a cruise deposit or FCC holder, getting anything more than pennies on the dollar is probably zero. Zero is more likely.  And it will take a year or more to get those few pennies.

 

The best chance......if you booked using a credit card is to get busy and understand the process and the time limitations for initiating a charge dispute claim with the credit card issuer. 

 

It may be a way of recouping a loss based upon a failed contract to deliver.  If I had a balance due that was 60 days or older  I would have already started the dispute process just in case.  Fortunately I do not.

Edited April 18, 2020 by iancal

[bvocruise]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

If a cruise line goes bankrupt the chances of an unsecured creditor, ie a cruise deposit or FCC holder, getting anything more than pennies on the dollar is probably zero. Zero is more likely.  And it will take a year or more to get those few pennies.

 

The best chance......if you booked using a credit card is to get busy and understand the process and the time limitations for initiating a charge dispute claim with the credit card issuer. 

 

It may be a way of recouping a loss based upon a failed contract to deliver.  If I had a balance due that was 60 days or older  I would have already started the dispute process just in case.  Fortunately I do not.

We paid upfront for a cruise/tour months ago (I know, stupid on my part).  HAL via the TA said they are processing the refund but nothing has happened in over a month.  I haven't contacted my credit card company but don't think there is anything they can do for me in this case.  This may be a costly mistake on my part.  Thankfully we will be okay without the money if it isn't returned, but it still stings.

[wesport]

Watching the interview with Arnold Donald, he stated that they have enough cash for the worst case scenario which is no cruises until 2021.  If they have enough cash until the end of the year, surely he took into consideration the refunds due to customers.  Seems like testing and vaccines for Covid 19 are moving quicker than anticipated. If cruises start to slowly move over the summer,  hopefully things will get back to maybe close to normal. I do thing cruising will be slightly different that before.  I cancelled  a Seabourn cruise last summer, when none of this was happening, and it was a full six weeks before I got the refund. That was under normal circumstances. 

[0106]

HAL cancelled my 4/5 cruise.  Because if the current situation, I need the money.  Disputed the charge with my credit card company.  They credited the amount back to me.  Let the big companies figure out how to do business with each other.

[iancal]

Smart.  I would do exactly that if I need the cash flow OR if the amount was significant to me.   Credit card dispute takes away any risk.

[Kfrech]

I did the same thing. Let the credit card company do the chasing.

[iancal]

Absolutely.

 

Why let a cruise line make their problem your problem?

[Mnfirechief]

I’m wondering if the credit card route will work for me. I put a deposit on a Feb 2021 cruise in September 2019. I cancelled the reservation in early April and was told to expect at least a 90 day wait. Can I challenge through my card under that set of facts? 

[PSR]

7 minutes ago, Mnfirechief said:

I’m wondering if the credit card route will work for me. I put a deposit on a Feb 2021 cruise in September 2019. I cancelled the reservation in early April and was told to expect at least a 90 day wait. Can I challenge through my card under that set of facts? 

 

You should give your CC company a call to Customer Service. The reason for the dispute has to be valid, such as the COVID-19. I was asked if my dispute was due to that, and it was. There is also a time limit for credit card disputes, such as 90 days back, 6 months, etc., so that may come into play. One of my cards has an "unlimited" time frame, but you have to call and cannot do it online.

 

You could also try to dispute it online. If you have access to the statement for the date of the disputed charge and the "dispute" link is active, you may be able to dispute it that way.

[Kfrech]

I had charges on 3 different credit cards for an Alaskan cruise in June. All 3 have credited my cards the amounts I paid, with 1 exception. One card (citibank) is taking longer with a portion of the payments because it was charged in 2019.

 

I did all of it online.

 

I do believe there is than a time frame (the credit card company will give you that date) when the matter is considered "resolved".

[Jim9310]

The previously unreported tale of Carnival’s cash flow problem shows how effective the Fed has been in turning the debt spigot back on for large corporations.  According to the Wall Street Journal, in mid-march credit vultures were circling Carnival.  Thanks to the Federal Reserve’s timely intervention in the distressed bond market, Carnival was able to raise almost $6 billion in the US bond market by April 1.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-fed-intervention-saved-carnival-11587920400

[Tom O.]

Just letting you folks know, I received a refund today, for the extra items I ordered for my cruise. This included some excursions, specialty dinners, etc.

I cancelled them on March 21. I have not received my deposit refund yet, I cancelled the cruise about a week after cancelling these incidentals. So, I am thinking I will get that soon.

[Mnfirechief]

24 minutes ago, Tom O. said:

Just letting you folks know, I received a refund today, for the extra items I ordered for my cruise. This included some excursions, specialty dinners, etc.

I cancelled them on March 21. I have not received my deposit refund yet, I cancelled the cruise about a week after cancelling these incidentals. So, I am thinking I will get that soon.

That is great news! I cancelled my Holland America cruise for February 2021 on April 1.  I hope to see my deposit refund sometime in June.

[Mandalay1903]

FWIW, on 3/19/2020 I cancelled four prepaid HAL shore excursions. The EXC desk said that it would take up to 60 days for the refund. The refunds credited my cc today (51 days) and I did not have to contact my cc issuer to request a charge back.

[promosinc]

On 3/24/2020 at 2:31 PM, roberts2005 said:

Canceled a May 15 cruise, on March 10. Still have not received any credit card refund.  I’m entitled to a full cash refund less $600.00

 

also canceled a July 5th cruise, where I am entitled to a full deposit refund.  Have not received this either

Same for me - I cancelled a mid-December cruise on April 2. I'm entitled to a full refund of my deposit. I was told it would take up to 60 days. That's unacceptable. I'm not their bank. They're just looking for interest-free loans. Now the HAL rep is saying 60 days is what they're aiming for (could be longer) and says they are working from home and processing manually. All nonsense! I put the charge in dispute with my credit card company.

[promosinc]

On 4/18/2020 at 2:02 PM, bvocruise said:

We paid upfront for a cruise/tour months ago (I know, stupid on my part).  HAL via the TA said they are processing the refund but nothing has happened in over a month.  I haven't contacted my credit card company but don't think there is anything they can do for me in this case.  This may be a costly mistake on my part.  Thankfully we will be okay without the money if it isn't returned, but it still stings.

Put the charge in dispute with your credit card company.

[promosinc]

On 3/25/2020 at 7:39 AM, TN Fem said:

I'm still waiting my refund. At what point do I call the credit card company to dispute the charges since HAL canceled on us less than 24 hours before our cruise was to depart? 

Do it immediately

[JuliaScott150]

Kfrech, I too paid with my Chase credit card. Full payment was due on January 31, so when HAL cancelled our May cruise on March 31, I was already at the 60 day period for disputing the charge. Our TA requested a full refund (about $4,900) around April 1 and at that point the HAL website said refunds were taking 60 days, which would put my refund coming about June 1. Were you past the 60 day dispute period (based on date of payment) when you disputed the charge with Chase? I'm hoping that if I dispute it within 60 days of SAIL DATE  I'll be OK. I'm willing to give HAL until the second week in June, but at that point I plan to dispute. Based on your experience would that work?