Urgent - Ruby Princess 3 people infected - Urgent Tracking of Passengers

[Pushka]

Perhaps the mix of passengers from different countries, particularly the US and UK which were high risk countries, needed to have been taken into account and not just the places where the cruise visited. 

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

Perhaps the mix of passengers from different countries, particularly the US and UK which were high risk countries, needed to have been taken into account and not just the places where the cruise visited. 

I agree with that.

 

We were booked on the Sea Princess to NZ from 23rd February. We considered the risk from COVID but went ahead with the cruise because we felt we were pretty safe because the virus was not widespread in Aust or NZ at the time. On board, we found that around 22% of the passengers had come from USA to board the cruise and another 22% (roughly) came from the UK. We were lucky, but we could have had the same problem as the Ruby.

[Pushka]

20 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I agree with that.

 

We were booked on the Sea Princess to NZ from 23rd February. We considered the risk from COVID but went ahead with the cruise because we felt we were pretty safe because the virus was not widespread in Aust or NZ at the time. On board, we found that around 22% of the passengers had come from USA to board the cruise and another 22% (roughly) came from the UK. We were lucky, but we could have had the same problem as the Ruby.

Oh wow. You were very very lucky then. If you had known that before boarding, do you think you would still have gone? If so, anything you might have done differently?

[Aus Traveller]

16 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Oh wow. You were very very lucky then. If you had known that before boarding, do you think you would still have gone? If so, anything you might have done differently?

If it was now, with the international health situation, then the answer would be "No". We would rather "do our dough".

 

However, in the third week of February, things weren't so dire, so the question: would we have gone on the cruise if we knew there were so many international passengers? I have to say "Yes" because things weren't so bad in USA, the UK or Europe at that time. However, two weeks later, the international situation had deteriorated.

 

I am not in any way suggesting that people who went on the Ruby should not have. The Sea Princess left Brisbane on the 8th, then Sydney on the 10th with many international passengers. There have been no reports of COVID associated with this ship. The Ruby, her passengers and her crew were unlucky.☹️

[Pushka]

1 minute ago, Aus Traveller said:

If it was now, with the international health situation, then the answer would be "No". We would rather "do our dough".

 

However, in the third week of February, things weren't so dire, so the question: would we have gone on the cruise if we knew there were so many international passengers? I have to say "Yes" because things weren't so bad in USA, the UK or Europe at that time. However, two weeks later, the international situation had deteriorated.

 

I am not in any way suggesting that people who went on the Ruby should not have. The Sea Princess left Brisbane on the 8th, then Sydney on the 10th with many international passengers. There have been no reports of COVID associated with this ship. The Ruby, her passengers and her crew were unlucky.☹️

Yes, it unravelled so quickly. Given that, should the cruise have been cancelled given by March things had gone bad? That's when we bailed at our Bali trip for late March. Cancelled in the first week of March and wore the cost. 

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

Yes, it unravelled so quickly. Given that, should the cruise have been cancelled given by March things had gone bad? That's when we bailed at our Bali trip for late March. Cancelled in the first week of March and wore the cost. 

You cancelled your trip in the first week of March. If I had a trip to Asia booked at that time, I probably would have cancelled.

 

In hindsight, it would have been better of the 8th March Ruby cruise was cancelled, but there were other cruises that left around the same time that had no infections. Hindsight is good. 😁

[DiamondFour]

I have a question regarding the cruise prior.

 

The 24th February sailing that went to New Zealand, were there any confirmed cases of the virus from china on this sailing and if so how many and when were they confirmed?

[Aus Traveller]

12 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

I have a question regarding the cruise prior.

 

The 24th February sailing that went to New Zealand, were there any confirmed cases of the virus from china on this sailing and if so how many and when were they confirmed?

There were no confirmed cases of COVID from the 24th Feb sailing of the Ruby Princess. The Guardian newspaper mistakenly reported one couple from that cruise had flown to Darwin then tested positive, but this couple were on the 8th March to 19th March cruise.

 

That 24th Feb cruise had a lot of people with respiratory symptoms (from memory 158 people had visited the medical centre for some reason). When the ship docked in Sydney NSW Health carried out a detailed assessment of the disembarking passengers and delayed embarkation of the new batch of passengers starting around 4.30pm to 5pm. The fact that they were held until NSW Health gave clearance indicates to me that it is likely they carried out pathology tests on swabs from patients on that 24th Feb cruise. When they were negative to COVID-19, NSW Health cleared the ship to continue as normal. In that extra half day, the ship's crew would have carried out deep cleaning of the ship.

[DiamondFour]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

There were no confirmed cases of COVID from the 24th Feb sailing of the Ruby Princess. The Guardian newspaper mistakenly reported one couple from that cruise had flown to Darwin then tested positive, but this couple were on the 8th March to 19th March cruise.

 

That 24th Feb cruise had a lot of people with respiratory symptoms (from memory 158 people had visited the medical centre for some reason). When the ship docked in Sydney NSW Health carried out a detailed assessment of the disembarking passengers and delayed embarkation of the new batch of passengers starting around 4.30pm to 5pm. The fact that they were held until NSW Health gave clearance indicates to me that it is likely they carried out pathology tests on swabs from patients on that 24th Feb cruise. When they were negative to COVID-19, NSW Health cleared the ship to continue as normal. In that extra half day, the ship's crew would have carried out deep cleaning of the ship.

Assuming these facts are correct and that no one on the prior sailing had the new virus from china then that would suggest to me that some international passenger either brought the virus on with them or they picked it up in a port in New Zealand.

 

This if true could be a redeeming factor for Princess and Ruby Princess in general and confirm the police investigation to be a political scapegoat to save the skin of an incompetent government that I regretfully voted for.

[MMDown Under]

12 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I agree with that.

 

We were booked on the Sea Princess to NZ from 23rd February. We considered the risk from COVID but went ahead with the cruise because we felt we were pretty safe because the virus was not widespread in Aust or NZ at the time. On board, we found that around 22% of the passengers had come from USA to board the cruise and another 22% (roughly) came from the UK. We were lucky, but we could have had the same problem as the Ruby.

That is the hidden risk.  22% USA and 22% approx UK says a higher risk at that time. Does anyone know whether the passenger make up is given to Auths in Aust prior to the ship's arrival in Aust? A wise head advised me not to cruise after October (northern winter) because Aussies/Kiwis (southern summer) haven't had an opportunity to build up resistance to new versions of the flu, etc.  Our new flu vaccination is released in April.    You don't know where your fellow passengers come from. When we cruised to Antarctica, we had a lovely group of HK cruisers on the ship, who fitted in well with the rest of the passengers.  The staff advised me the next cruise had a lot more mainland Chinese passengers on board.  When I cruised from Greenland to Miami on B2B cruises, there was a small Chinese group (booked through a Chinese TA) that cruised all the way from Greenland to Antarctica.  The two young boys used to keep an eye on me, as we alternated between being last on board.  BTW It is a small world.  One of the boys said to me "Do you come from Brisbane?"  Seems he went to school in Brisbane and he said I sounded just like his homestay mother!!

Edited April 7, 2020 by MMDown Under

[BRANDEE]

8 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

Assuming these facts are correct and that no one on the prior sailing had the new virus from china then that would suggest to me that some international passenger either brought the virus on with them or they picked it up in a port in New Zealand.

 

This if true could be a redeeming factor for Princess and Ruby Princess in general and confirm the police investigation to be a political scapegoat to save the skin of an incompetent government that I regretfully voted for.

Actually, there is another scenario.  Most of the international passengers had been in Sydney or Australian for a few days to two weeks prior the cruise.  They arrived virus free.  Now over 50 % of the passengers were Aussies who came by plane, train, bus, car to get on the cruise. One could say they brought on the virus.  But does it really matter.......In the end the Health Ministry screwed up and did not do their job either at the beginning of the cruise or end.  Stop pointing fingers and man up. No passenger went on the cruise with the purpose of dying.

[Porky55]

46 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Stop pointing fingers and man up. No passenger went on the cruise with the purpose of dying.

Well said BRANDEE.

Both Aus Traveller and myself were on the previous cruise and along with the 158 who went to medical - close to 600 of us completed the NSW Health form asking if we had - cough, runny nose or temperature. Then, If we ticked ANY box we had to stay in the restaurant next morning and be checked. My apologies, we held up your departing cruise. 🙄
Obviously BRANDEE, you didn’t see the same form (slipped under our cabin door late on the evening of the 7th March) so weren’t given the same option for a health check and a talk by a Dr and we were all given face masks.

Agree though, no one who then boarded on the 8th after we finally disembarked did so aware of being sick - one would hope. 

Our Ruby has been made into a floating scape goat for the virus I’m afraid. Many more sources of the virus abound even here (airports and returning travellers) but the Media just won’t leave our cruise industry alone.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Porky55

[MicCanberra]

It is too big and easy target.

[megsie]

 

 

3 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Actually, there is another scenario.  Most of the international passengers had been in Sydney or Australian for a few days to two weeks prior the cruise.  They arrived virus free.  Now over 50 % of the passengers were Aussies who came by plane, train, bus, car to get on the cruise. One could say they brought on the virus.  But does it really matter.......In the end the Health Ministry screwed up and did not do their job either at the beginning of the cruise or end.  Stop pointing fingers and man up. No passenger went on the cruise with the purpose of dying.

 

Here’s a graph to show from the first case in Australia on Jan 25 the progression of cases. At the time of the departure of Ruby Princess there are very few cases here. Highly unlikely scenario but not necessarily impossible as it only takes one person to be carrying the virus to possibly cause over 600 cases and 14 deaths as we have seen on Ruby.  Sad for everyone.

Edited April 7, 2020 by megsie
The

[possum52]

3 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Actually, there is another scenario.  Most of the international passengers had been in Sydney or Australian for a few days to two weeks prior the cruise.  They arrived virus free.  Now over 50 % of the passengers were Aussies who came by plane, train, bus, car to get on the cruise. One could say they brought on the virus.  But does it really matter.......In the end the Health Ministry screwed up and did not do their job either at the beginning of the cruise or end.  Stop pointing fingers and man up. No passenger went on the cruise with the purpose of dying.

We don't know the international passengers were virus free, there could easily have been one or two with no symptoms at all or one symptom. I'm always surprised also how many international passengers arrive the morning of the cruise or the day before, so I think that ALL passengers had the chance to be infected. I remember one cruise we did from Sydney, as we were making our way through to board, an elderly couple just about fell out of the lift close to where we were standing. They were exhausted as they had come from straight from the airport. Their flight from the US had arrived a few hours earlier. 

 

Of course we hope passengers didn't deliberately board knowing they were unwell, but really who knows.

 

Leigh

[Aus Traveller]

12 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

Assuming these facts are correct and that no one on the prior sailing had the new virus from china then that would suggest to me that some international passenger either brought the virus on with them or they picked it up in a port in New Zealand.

 

This if true could be a redeeming factor for Princess and Ruby Princess in general and confirm the police investigation to be a political scapegoat to save the skin of an incompetent government that I regretfully voted for.

Even Channel 7 who were trying to 'hang, draw and quarter' Princess, could suggest there was COVID-19 on Ruby Princess' previous cruise. They ominously talked about "ill people" and "sickness on board", but did not mention COVID. If they did they could have been sued by Princess because there was no COVID.

 

I agree that there is a fair chance that a passenger who flew in from overseas brought the virus, but there is a small chance an Aussie picked it up in Sydney. There was a cluster of cases from a 9.30am Baptist Church meeting at Ryde that Sunday.

 

I don't think the virus could have been picked up in Napier where people later tested positive, because the virus was too widely spread on the Ruby. Research into the virus indicates that a person becomes infectious a few days after contracting the virus. The visit to Napier was only four days before the end of the cruise - not enough time for it to spread so widely. Sadly, it is more likely that the passengers gave the virus to the tour guide and bus driver in Napier.  

[DiamondFour]

4 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Actually, there is another scenario.  Most of the international passengers had been in Sydney or Australian for a few days to two weeks prior the cruise.  They arrived virus free.  Now over 50 % of the passengers were Aussies who came by plane, train, bus, car to get on the cruise. One could say they brought on the virus.  But does it really matter.......In the end the Health Ministry screwed up and did not do their job either at the beginning of the cruise or end.  Stop pointing fingers and man up. No passenger went on the cruise with the purpose of dying.

That is a fair assessment but it would mean community transmission within Australia fairly early on.

 

Looking at a brochure I have pulled out that fortunately did not throw out:

 

Ruby Princess Departures from Sydney

2nd November 2019 - Tasmania - 6 nights

8th November 2019 - Fiji - 14 nights

22nd November 2019 - New Zealand - 14 nights

5th December 2019 - New Caledonia/Vanuatu - 8 nights

13th December 2019 - New Zealand - 14 nights

30th December 2019 - New Zealand - 14 nights

13th January 2020 - Fiji - 14 nights

27th January 2020 - New Zealand - 14 nights

*1

11th February 2020 - New Zealand - 13 nights

24th February 2020 - New Zealand - 13 nights (22 virus from china cases in Australia)

*2

8th March 2020 - New Zealand - 13 nights. (83 virus from china cases in Australia)

*3

 

 

Restrictions timeline

*1) 1st February 2020 - Government announces no entry to Australia for any foreign national who has transited through mainland china.

*1) 6th February 2020 - china admits death toll has exceeded 500.

*1) 17th February 2020 - cases hit 70,000 world wide.

*1) 19th February 2020 - South Korea, Iran and Italy emerge as hot spots.

*2) 29th February 2020 - Australia activates its emergency plan.

*3) 11th March 2020 - WHO declares a world wide pandemic.

*3) 12th March 2020 - Princess announces global pause.

*3) 14th March 2020 - Lockdowns appear in Europe and US declares a national emergency. 

 

I hope this puts things in more perspective for people. We have been bombarded by information for weeks and while hindsight is a good thing there are things we did not know weeks ago that we now know today. I would suggest that this police investigation into Ruby Princess is a political stitch up to shift blame away from the negligence of the NSW government to hold back the disembarkation of the last Ruby Princess cruise with the full knowledge the ship had declared a virus that was not influenza that they did not have the means to identify and passengers were taken off by ambulance.

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

4 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

Actually, there is another scenario.  Most of the international passengers had been in Sydney or Australian for a few days to two weeks prior the cruise.  They arrived virus free.  Now over 50 % of the passengers were Aussies who came by plane, train, bus, car to get on the cruise. One could say they brought on the virus.  But does it really matter.......In the end the Health Ministry screwed up and did not do their job either at the beginning of the cruise or end.  Stop pointing fingers and man up. No passenger went on the cruise with the purpose of dying.

And no passenger went on the cruise, knowing they had the virus.

 

I suppose the point that DiamondFour is making is that in early March there were very few people in Australia with the virus. It wasn't widespread in the community, but there were some infections in the eastern beach suburbs of Sydney. It is possible that a visitor to Sydney went sightseeing in these suburbs prior to boarding the ship. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

Another death today from Ruby Princess.  A 62 year old woman from South Australia. That is 15? I am losing count. 😞.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Pushka

[DiamondFour]

2 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Another death today from Ruby Princess.  A 62 year old woman from South Australia. That is 15.

ultimately caused by the virus from china that unfortunately found its way onto a cruise ship.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

Even Channel 7 who were trying to 'hang, draw and quarter' Princess, could not suggest there was COVID-19 on Ruby Princess' previous cruise. They ominously talked about "ill people" and "sickness on board", but did not mention COVID. If they did they could have been sued by Princess because there was no COVID.

 

Oops I had a 'typo' or omission in my previous post. It should have had the word "not" in the first line.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[LittleFish1976]

5 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

ultimately caused by the virus from china that unfortunately found its way onto a cruise ship.

 

DiamondFour, I find your constant usage and emphasis on the 'virus from china' (sic) terminology to be quite racist. Given that I also believe you are probably of Chinese extraction and have a personal and/or political grudge against the Chinese government, I wish you would give it a rest.

 

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, possum52 said:

We don't know the international passengers were virus free, there could easily have been one or two with no symptoms at all or one symptom. I'm always surprised also how many international passengers arrive the morning of the cruise or the day before, so I think that ALL passengers had the chance to be infected. I remember one cruise we did from Sydney, as we were making our way through to board, an elderly couple just about fell out of the lift close to where we were standing. They were exhausted as they had come from straight from the airport. Their flight from the US had arrived a few hours earlier. 

 

Of course we hope passengers didn't deliberately board knowing they were unwell, but really who knows.

 

Leigh

We have also met international passengers who arrive the day of the cruise. 

[Aus Traveller]

6 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

DiamondFour, I find your constant usage and emphasis on the 'virus from china' (sic) terminology to be quite racist. Given that I also believe you are probably of Chinese extraction and have a personal and/or political grudge against the Chinese government, I wish you would give it a rest.

 

I haven't gained the impression that DiamondFour is of Chinese extraction. He might be.🙂 He and President Trump both refer to it as the 'Chinese virus' and Mr. Trump isn't Chinese. 😁

 

From reading DiamondFour's posts, I feel he is terribly upset (as we all are) and passionate about the way all our lives and also the world as a whole has been devastated by this virus. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

 

 

From reading DiamondFour's posts, I feel he is terribly upset (as we all are) and passionate about the way all our lives and also the world as a whole has been devastated by this virus. 

I would agree with you however it would be preferable if DiamondFour referred to the virus by it's common name of Covid-19.