Might my cruising days be over?

[pacruise804]

On 3/21/2020 at 4:37 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

I wish you well, too.  My health is not perfect, but I am still able to travel.   Going through airports and cruise terminals has become difficult for me due to their size.  Once on the ship, walking from bow to stern can, at times, be a challenge.  Still doable, but, I wonder for how long?  Given the situation the world now finds itself, I am wondering if my cruises in December and January weren't my last as well.

 

I will say a prayer for you during Church (we are going to have our first attempt at an online service) tomorrow.

 

Sorry for the thread drift, but I wanted to mention we are finding with our on-line services it is a way for extended family who aren't usually local to the church to be able to worship together virtually.  It might be worth "inviting" others to watch with you that you otherwise might not consider.

 

OP - Despite visiting these boards I'm actually trying not to think much about my booked cruises.  I agree with others that if your husband consistently gets sick after cruises it might not be worth cruise travel for him even if it is an option in the future 😞 

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

The CDC just discovered the coronavirus survived  for 17 days on surfaces on the two infected Princess cruise ships. This doesn't bode well for future cruise travel. Once again, it will be a long time before we will be On a cruise ship.

 

Survived, yes. But they haven't shown whether it could still infect someone.

 

 

[welovetahiti]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:26 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Not only is the concept of the health letter absurd:  very few doctors would sign anything like it; and if cruise lines did not introduce strong protocols to insure that real doctors actually signed them very shortly before boarding, they would not even rise to the level of being farcical

 

Then too, does anyone really think that the cruise lines could hope to survive if they made it difficult for a significant segment of their most profitable market (the elderly) to participate?

My husband and I are over 70 and won't be able to get a doctor's note before our 4/19/20 Freedom cruise (which I don't think will happen), so I'm wondering if Royal will give us a refund since they won't let us board now or in the future without a doctor's note.

[clo]

48 minutes ago, welovetahiti said:

My husband and I are over 70 and won't be able to get a doctor's note before our 4/19/20 Freedom cruise

Would you actually have to see them or just call or email and they'd send to you?

[welovetahiti]

No patients are being seen other than for emergency reasons until further notice, and it's doubtful any doctor will sign this type of note.

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, welovetahiti said:

My husband and I are over 70 and won't be able to get a doctor's note before our 4/19/20 Freedom cruise (which I don't think will happen), so I'm wondering if Royal will give us a refund since they won't let us board now or in the future without a doctor's note.

Did you try speaking to the doctor personally ?

[davekathy]

27 minutes ago, welovetahiti said:

No patients are being seen other than for emergency reasons until further notice, and it's doubtful any doctor will sign this type of note.

Our doctor did (don't need it now) as we don't have any of the published underlying heath conditions the cruise line listed. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by davekathy

[ducklite]

On 3/22/2020 at 8:50 AM, ATC cruiser said:

And if you’re going to put those restrictions on people that cruise, you better put them on people that fly. Are you prepared to not let disabled people get on an airplane because they will need extra assistance in case of emergency evacuations? I doubt it.


Aft Cabins Rule

My home airport is Orlando, and it's typical for half the plane to be elderly and littles.  Let's be real, if there's a major incident that requires quickly evacuating the plane, the people who will get off will be the able bodied who are able to self-evacuate.  Sure, a few littles might get chucked down the slide or off into a life raft if they happen to be at the right place at the right time, but there's no way of getting 20 people using wheelchairs, scooters, and walkers and 30 children under the age of eight off a crashed plane that is on fire.  It's just not happening, and that's the chance we all must take when we fly.

[navybankerteacher]

21 minutes ago, ducklite said:

My home airport is Orlando, and it's typical for half the plane to be elderly and littles.  Let's be real, if there's a major incident that requires quickly evacuating the plane, the people who will get off will be the able bodied who are able to self-evacuate.  Sure, a few littles might get chucked down the slide or off into a life raft if they happen to be at the right place at the right time, but there's no way of getting 20 people using wheelchairs, scooters, and walkers and 30 children under the age of eight off a crashed plane that is on fire.  It's just not happening, and that's the chance we all must take when we fly.

 Hard fact: a triage approach is not unthinkable.  It has already been discussed re: hospitals being overwhelmed - twenty new extreme cases - who will get the eight available ventilators?  Probably those with longest life ahead of them.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Would you actually have to see them or just call or email and they'd send to you?

Are you suggesting that a doctor would sign such a letter without examining the individual?

[ducklite]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 Hard fact: a triage approach is not unthinkable.  It has already been discussed re: hospitals being overwhelmed - twenty new extreme cases - who will get the eight available ventilators?  Probably those with longest life ahead of them.

Absolutely.  These decisions must be made on a purely scientific rather than emotional basis.  That said, on a burning plane I'm not putting myself at further risk to find littles who are still strapped into a car seat or have landed in an open overhead bin (see United Airlines Flight 232) unless they are right there on my way out myself. And granny, well, even if she survived the crash, I'm not going to have the strength to muscle her body down an aisle most likely already blocked with debris--and neither will the flight attendants.  Even if we got her to the door, and even if we could give her a push down the slide, it would most likely fracture half the bones in her body.  (Two year olds have a significant advantage in that respect.)

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by ducklite

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Survived, yes. But they haven't shown whether it could still infect someone.

 

 

Then, of course, such a weakened or killed virus is the essence of any preventive vaccine.

[ducklite]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

Are you suggesting that a doctor would sign such a letter without examining the individual?

I think it would depend on how long it had been since they were last seen.  I saw my doctor about five weeks ago.  My guess is that with a tele-medicine phone call or video visit she would sign off.  Had it been five months since I last saw her, I'm guessing that she would require that I was seen in person.  It also most likely depends on how long they have been your doctor.  In my case it's been 15 years of regular visits and some valid questions before I traveled to certain parts of the world regarding immunizations and such.  She knows that I take suitable precautions to ensure my health.  If I were a relatively new patient I think she'd be far less likely to sign off on anything if she had any doubts.

[clo]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are you suggesting that a doctor would sign such a letter without examining the individual?

Yes. If it's a patient who has a relationship with their physician the doctor will know if there are any general things that could cause a problem. When we went to Antarctica on a small ship we had to provide such a letter. We were a long, long way from medical care.

[ducklite]

1 minute ago, clo said:

Yes. If it's a patient who has a relationship with their physician the doctor will know if there are any general things that could cause a problem. When we went to Antarctica on a small ship we had to provide such a letter. We were a long, long way from medical care.

I actually mentioned this when I saw my doctor last month.  She said she had to sign off for a couple last year for an Antarctica cruise and she made them promise to take their vitamins every day and use sunscreen, but otherwise she wished she could go with them.

[Roger88]

They might be over for this year but fortunately everything will cool down in the upcoming months. So dont be sad. I am sure there would be tons of cruising next year. Demand will be super high. As of now, just relax and enjoy your safe stay at home with family and kids if you have any. Anyway, take care my friend. Hope everything will go well  

[clo]

1 minute ago, Roger88 said:

but fortunately everything will cool down in the upcoming months.

And you base that on what?

[Roger88]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

And you base that on what?

Well, if you take China for example, the city where the whole thing started is not under quarantine anymore. The things are getting better. It took them approximately 2 months to recover. The epidemy in Europe has just started. I expect the situation to change in a month or two. Ok, I understand that we are not as well organised as Chines but we are well advanced to fix the situation. So just based on that I predict that everything will be alright in 5 to 7 weeks 

[clo]

2 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Well, if you take China for example, the city where the whole thing started is not under quarantine anymore. The things are getting better. It took them approximately 2 months to recover. The epidemy in Europe has just started. I expect the situation to change in a month or two. Ok, I understand that we are not as well organised as Chines but we are well advanced to fix the situation. So just based on that I predict that everything will be alright in 5 to 7 weeks 

Well, it might settle down in summer. Or not. And then raise its ugly head again in fall like the seasonal influenza. Or it might not. And a vaccine is likely 18 months away, plus or minus. Clinical trials, ya know. We have a FCC that I hope we can use before end of '21.

[ducklite]

13 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

They might be over for this year but fortunately everything will cool down in the upcoming months. So dont be sad. I am sure there would be tons of cruising next year. Demand will be super high. As of now, just relax and enjoy your safe stay at home with family and kids if you have any. Anyway, take care my friend. Hope everything will go well  

I'm not so sure demand will be "super high."  People have been watching these HAL. MSC, and Princess cruises turned away from ports and sailing around with sick passengers.  I have a feeling it will take many years for cruising to recover.

[ducklite]

8 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Well, if you take China for example, the city where the whole thing started is not under quarantine anymore. The things are getting better. It took them approximately 2 months to recover. The epidemy in Europe has just started. I expect the situation to change in a month or two. Ok, I understand that we are not as well organised as Chines but we are well advanced to fix the situation. So just based on that I predict that everything will be alright in 5 to 7 weeks 

Yet we still have stupid people crowding onto beaches and parks.  Until this country goes into the same type of lock down as we're seeing in Europe, it will just keep churning along.  Too many people think it can't happen to them.  Too many people who act in risky ways then go visit granny.  Too many hospitals working without the correct protective gear and healthcare workers becoming infected as a result.  This is far from over.  It is still 3-4 weeks from peaking.

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

The CDC just discovered the coronavirus survived  for 17 days on surfaces on the two infected Princess cruise ships. This doesn't bode well for future cruise travel.

 

As a retired science educator with a Zoology major, the ability of this virus to survive outside of its host for as long as it does interests me very much.  Only had one microbiology course and I don't recall much about viruses in that course.

 

Doing some searching on the internet has been interesting.  I'd suggest, if so interested, others ought to do the same.  

[Markanddonna]

3 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

As a retired science educator with a Zoology major, the ability of this virus to survive outside of its host for as long as it does interests me very much.  Only had one microbiology course and I don't recall much about viruses in that course.

 

Doing some searching on the internet has been interesting.  I'd suggest, if so interested, others ought to do the same.  

I follow the worldometers website. It is fascinating to see that the US is really doing so much better than many first world countries if you look at the last two columns on the right. Second and third world countries are likely much worse than reported. 

 

Also, John Hopkins University's report from two years ago declared the USA to be the best prepared of any country for the preparation for a pandemic like this. I think the media just loves to be horribly negative. The reason China and Asian countries are doing better is that the government requires great discipline of their people.  The USA and Europe can't be compared to this. Imagine if Chinese college students were going to the beaches during this crisis.  Wouldn't happen!

 

 

[njhorseman]

12 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

I follow the worldometers website. It is fascinating to see that the US is really doing so much better than many first world countries if you look at the last two columns on the right. Second and third world countries are likely much worse than reported. 

 

Also, John Hopkins University's report from two years ago declared the USA to be the best prepared of any country for the preparation for a pandemic like this. I think the media just loves to be horribly negative. The reason China and Asian countries are doing better is that the government requires great discipline of their people.  The USA and Europe can't be compared to this. Imagine if Chinese college students were going to the beaches during this crisis.  Wouldn't happen!

 

 

I haven't read the John's Hopkins report, but the Trump Administration's Department of Health and Human Services simulation exercises conducted from January to August of 2019 concluded that the federal government was underfunded, underprepared and uncoordinated for a battle with a virus that had no treatment available.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html

Edited March 24, 2020 by njhorseman

[Lois R]

1 hour ago, Roger88 said:

Well, if you take China for example, the city where the whole thing started is not under quarantine anymore. The things are getting better. It took them approximately 2 months to recover. The epidemy in Europe has just started. I expect the situation to change in a month or two. Ok, I understand that we are not as well organised as Chines but we are well advanced to fix the situation. So just based on that I predict that everything will be alright in 5 to 7 weeks 

Really? So, today is March 24th. You think at the end of April/early May everything will be all better?

"They" want to relax the process and have "Churches full" on Easter Sunday....they do that? It will make things

even worse