Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Zippercat]

48 minutes ago, phil09 said:

marinetraffic.com currently shows the Zaandam about 10 nautical miles off the port of Manta, Equador.  Posted course and speed suggests they are headed to the port. 

MarineTraffic now showing Zaandam stopped outside of Manta.

[KAKcruiser]

Do you think they are trying to transport a sick person to a hospital?

[bcummin]

No wonder Captain Albert has been so quiet.

My heart aches for the people caught up in this situation.  But I am thrilled that the Rotterdam is on its way with help.  Possibly the Zaandam will become a hospital ship?

Cambodia and Australia have been good friends to Holland America in the past.  Who will show compassion and humanity this time?  Manta???

May God bless them all.

Barbara

Edited March 26, 2020 by bcummin

[Zippercat]

7 minutes ago, KAKcruiser said:

Do you think they are trying to transport a sick person to a hospital?

That’s certainly one possibility.  They could be receiving a delivery of medicine, test kits and/or medical personnel flown in by HAL.  Or something else.  

[Zippercat]

MarineTraffic now shows Zaandam underway again.  I did not see another vessel approach her while she was stopped...I think they stopped for at least 25 minutes.  

[Cruzaholic41]

4 minutes ago, Zippercat said:

MarineTraffic now shows Zaandam underway again.  I did not see another vessel approach her while she was stopped...I think they stopped for at least 25 minutes.  

If it was a government vessel, it probably wouldn’t use AIS. I wonder if they were removing the deceased. 

[Copper10-8]

3 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

When cruise lines have crew quarantine...where? Especially on some of the older or smaller ships, private space sometimes simply does not exist until you are a manager; certainly not at dining room staff or kitchen staff level; I imagine most of those rooms either hold 2 or 4 sharing 1 bathroom.  How can a crew member be isolated on a ship?  Not even just Zaandam, but in general?  

 

The "four to a crew cabin" concept hasn't happened in a looong time with HAL. Crew in the class you mentioned sleep in top and lower bunk beds, two to a cabin with their own bathroom, usually on B-Deck which is a crew deck. Isolation would be along with your cabin mate. There is simply no space to have one to a cabin. Officers yes; ratings and petty officers each share a cabin with a cabin mate.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

If it was a government vessel, it probably wouldn’t use AIS. I wonder if they were removing the deceased. 

 

Doubt that seriously. Deceased persons are removed from the ship's temperature-controlled "coffin store" (morgue) with all the dignity afforded the deceased, when the vessel is alongside her berth in port. This is done, usually by mortuary personnel utilizing a hearse, and only after a prelim investigation has been conducted by local law enforcement and/or a coroner investigator to eliminate foul play. This includes an interview with the passenger physician, who would have prepared and signed a preliminary death certificate, followed by an interview with the ship's security officer who would have prepared a death investigation report. Transfering a deceased at sea, ship-to-ship to a smaller boat alongside the tender platform, is not done

[Wehwalt]

https://news.yahoo.com/holland-america-ship-transit-panama-233040197.html

 

That source seems to say they'll be allowed through the canal.

[bouhunter]

The days for pax and crew being confined have to be getting LONG.  That combined with the uncertainty of when the ordeal will even end has to be taking a real toll on them.  Even if the illness isn't coronavirus, this is a very bad situation for everyone on that ship.

Edited March 26, 2020 by bouhunter

[Suzcruz57]

Read this morning they’re going to Ft. Lauderdale.

[LMaxwell]

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

The "four to a crew cabin" concept hasn't happened in a looong time with HAL. Crew in the class you mentioned sleep in top and lower bunk beds, two to a cabin with their own bathroom, usually on B-Deck which is a crew deck. Isolation would be along with your cabin mate. There is simply no space to have one to a cabin. Officers yes; ratings and petty officers each share a cabin with a cabin mate.

Thank you; I appreciate you clarifying my understanding. 

[mcmarya]

It is so easy to forget how quickly this bad situation we are in unfolded.  When the folks on the Zaandam left home (probably no later than 3/5 if arriving one day early with an overnight flight) things were not looking that dire.  At that point, nothing was closed and there were still very few cases in the US with most related to travel.  I don't think there were any in South America.  The following week things moved very quickly when it became apparent that community infection was taking place and things started closing down.  I have a decent memory of that time because I was scheduled to sail on a 3/15 cruise departing Buenos Aires (on another cruise line) which was not canceled until 3/13.  Until a few days before I had no concerns about sailing since Covid-19 was still primarily in Asia and Italy and had not reached South America.  With 20-20 hindsight you could say that those people should have stayed home.  You could especially say that the cruise lines should have stopped sailing by then.  But, I don't think it is fair to condemn the passengers for embarking on this cruise--I would have gone based on what conditions were at the time.  The situation is what it is and it doesn't do any good to point fingers. Hopefully it will be possible to repatriate all of the passengers without adding to the problems wherever they are allowed to land.  Please have a little compassion for those directly involved in this ordeal.

[LauraS]

The title of this topic is "Flu" on Zaandam.  Please limit conversation to that so this convo can remain open.

Thank you,

 

LauraS

[Woofbite]

From Capt. Albert's Blog:

...the Oosterdam had raised anchor at Cabo San Lucas and sailed towards the ms Eurodam which was coming down the coast on its way to Puerto Vallarta. Oosterdam transferred medical staff and supporting supplies to the Eurodam. That ship then sailed onwards to meet with the ms Rotterdam. We did so in the early morning hours and all what was transferred from the Oosterdam, together with a medical team of the Eurodam, joined us then.  Then we were on our way and eventually we will meet up with the Zaandam somewhere, wherever the two ships which are both running at full speed, can meet. We are going south, the Zaandam is coming north.

 

Why has it required this slow, covoluted process to get medical personnel and supplies to Zaandam? 

Couldn't air transport of some sort been worked out?  Helicopter from foreign soil, U.S. or foreign Military, Coast Guard, etc.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Woofbite
Add quote.

[CI66774]

5 hours ago, Suzcruz57 said:

Read this morning they’re going to Ft. Lauderdale.

It's my understanding Florida has not as of yet agreed to allow them into any Florida port. 

[arabrab]

I wonder whether the hotel staff on Zaandam are taking proper precautions given the report of "flu" on the Zaandam? It would be criminal if they had failed to learn from the experiences of other ships.  

[Wehwalt]

6 minutes ago, arabrab said:

I wonder whether the hotel staff on Zaandam are taking proper precautions given the report of "flu" on the Zaandam? It would be criminal if they had failed to learn from the experiences of other ships.  

Agreed, if true, especially if there was visual evidence of same, it would greatly shake my confidence in HAL as they look to begin again in an era where coronavirus is still present, besides the flu of course.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Wehwalt

[ducklite]

16 minutes ago, Woofbite said:

Why has it required this slow, covoluted process to get medical personnel and supplies to Zaandam? 

Couldn't air transport of some sort been worked out?  Helicopter from foreign soil, U.S. or foreign Military, Coast Guard, etc.

I could be wrong, but I believe that they are way outside the jurisdictional waters of the USCG.  The other HAL ship should be there today with supplies, and I'm guessing that once people are tested, it will be much clearer as to what their options are.  

[dockman]

As of five minutes ago texting with brother on Zaandam I asked if anyone had died, a Brit, and he said if so that it had not been announced to passengers.

 

  He also said the food deliveries that started out great are now getting haphazard and not so great.

[Captain_Morgan]

11 minutes ago, dockman said:

As of five minutes ago texting with brother on Zaandam I asked if anyone had died, a Brit, and he said if so that it had not been announced to passengers.

 

  He also said the food deliveries that started out great are now getting haphazard and not so great.

 

Highly unlikely that such news would be shared with passengers let alone announced in any way 🙄

[dockman]

5 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

Highly unlikely that such news would be shared with passengers let alone announced in any way 🙄

  

No idea as to protocol as to what is announced/told to passengers but i do see speculation on here re removing body etc....i am just reporting what my brother who is on the ship just told me. 

 

They do have internet so I suppose some of the passengers are reading all kinds of reports.  They also get msnbc, fox and bbc so no doubt spend a lot of time watching all the covid stories on TV.

[npcl]

41 minutes ago, arabrab said:

I wonder whether the hotel staff on Zaandam are taking proper precautions given the report of "flu" on the Zaandam? It would be criminal if they had failed to learn from the experiences of other ships.  

Somewhat limited in the things that they can do on a cruise ship. So they can take some precautions, but considering the space, the work to be done. the effectiveness of actions taken will be limited.

 

What would you expect them to do?

 

[arabrab]

41 minutes ago, npcl said:

Somewhat limited in the things that they can do on a cruise ship. So they can take some precautions, but considering the space, the work to be done. the effectiveness of actions taken will be limited.

 

What would you expect them to do?

 

In the case of a "flu" outbreak on the Zaandam, I'd expect them to take precautions such as limiting the number of staff present in any passageway at the same time, having staff wear masks and gloves while delivering food and picking up trays/soiled linens, and having the kitchen staff cover the trays with plastic wrap before they're set out for delivery. 

[Max2003]

On the marine traffic display I can only deduce which ships are the Rotterdam and Zaandam since they seem to be running with IFF off.  But since there are only three "passenger vessels" in the area I suppose we can speculate.  It appears that they have broken out of the pack and altered course such that they are now heading toward each other intersecting at about N 05d 30m  W 81d.   Does anyone else see this.  What I think is the Zaandam has altered to about 345 degrees and the Rotterdam to about 135 degrees.  This might imply more of an open water rendezvous??  And sooner.    What is the sea state?