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Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)


bouhunter
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The whole BI article is concerning.  I noticed the following, as it echoes what happened with the Princess ships:

 

"This is a humanitarian action to help a sister ship which has an outbreak of respiratory illness mainly affecting your team mates, particularly food preparation and service staff," (bolding added)

 

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For those remaining on Zaandam and now those on Rotterdam I pray for your safe passage to a port for transfers home.  This is a situation that no one could have planned for.  Many of us have enjoyed Zaandam in the past and it is sad to have her be in this place now.  Holland is showing it's concern and compassion and the true spirit of seamanship with the assistance of Rotterdam.  Ships officers have an awesome responsibility to keep passengers safe.  We often take this for-granted since most all of our cruises go so seamlessly.  Our concern should be for the safe return of all involved.  As we follow along, I hope that those on board who have shared with us will continue to let us know how they are.  Godspeed

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21 minutes ago, npcl said:

Most have probably not been tested.  

Yes, this was like the  Princess Ship up in San Francisco.  Two passengers were positive, but there was never any follow up data on how many passengers actually were testing positive or never tested positive.  

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14 minutes ago, zonacruiser25 said:

For those remaining on Zaandam and now those on Rotterdam I pray for your safe passage to a port for transfers home.  This is a situation that no one could have planned for.  Many of us have enjoyed Zaandam in the past and it is sad to have her be in this place now.  Holland is showing it's concern and compassion and the true spirit of seamanship with the assistance of Rotterdam.  Ships officers have an awesome responsibility to keep passengers safe.  We often take this for-granted since most all of our cruises go so seamlessly.  Our concern should be for the safe return of all involved.  As we follow along, I hope that those on board who have shared with us will continue to let us know how they are.  Godspeed

 

Very well said!  Thank you for posting this.

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There seems to be a lot of negative sentiment on this board toward HAL’s plan to transfer the healthy to Rotterdam. From what I’ve read from HAL, the media, and knowledgeable insiders on this board, this wasn’t just some rash decision made by HAL. Government agencies like CDC and USCG were also involved in the planning. I guarantee they know much more about this situation than the rest of us. I’m thankful for these men and women who make decisions based on known facts rather than anonymous internet opinions. 

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From the article cited, these are chilling words:
 
"There is no other place for us to take the guests and no other means to provide assistance to the Zaandam and our fellow team members on board."

It seems to me the Rotterdam crew was sandbagged. They held a meeting before the mission began and told the crew only half the story. The crew agreed to participate. As far as I can tell, this transfer of guests was a surprise. There is no guarantee the transferred guests are healthy. We know many people do not show symptoms at first but they can infect others. The memo says if they don’t want to participate, they don’t have to. Will there be peer pressure on crew members who would rather not?
My husband and I have more than 300 days on HAL and I have always thought they were an upstanding, ethical company. Now I have my doubts. The room stewards and dining stewards are not highly paid. And now to ask a healthy crew to put their lives on the line? I don’t think it’s an ethical plan.


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2 minutes ago, Adoptionmsw said:


It seems to me the Rotterdam crew was sandbagged. They held a meeting before the mission began and told the crew only half the story. The crew agreed to participate. As far as I can tell, this transfer of guests was a surprise. There is no guarantee the transferred guests are healthy. We know many people do not show symptoms at first but they can infect others. The memo says if they don’t want to participate, they don’t have to. Will there be peer pressure on crew members who would rather not?
My husband and I have more than 300 days on HAL and I have always thought they were an upstanding, ethical company. Now I have my doubts. The room stewards and dining stewards are not highly paid. And now to ask a healthy crew to put their lives on the line? I don’t think it’s an ethical plan.


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I fully agree; see my later post. 

 

While I realize we may not have the full story, HAL appears to be only reluctantly updating the information on these events, in part due to leaks like the BI story.

 

The optics do not look good for HAL and this is not the first time it has happened during this pandemic event. 

 

There have been some intimations that at least some crew are quite concerned at the current turn of events. I just hope that things are better than they seem...

 

 

Edited by cruisemom42
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58 minutes ago, JazzyV said:

The Zaandam had planned to pass through the Panama Canal en route to Florida, but after being inspected by Panamanian authorities, the request to use the canal was denied, said canal Administrator Ricauter Vásquez. The Health Ministry “did not give permission,” Vásquez told reporters Friday. “The ship is in territorial waters but has to remain isolated.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/4-passengers-dead-aboard-cruise-183733702.html

This is sad, but not unexpected news.  I imagine the Rotterdam might now head to Ft. Lauderdale.

And the Zaandam....will need to pick up supplies, food, and fuel in Mexico.  Perhaps California ports will receive the Zaandam and treat all aboard well.

If only Chile had allowed them to fly home from Santiago, much of this could have been avoided.  Most passengers were packed and ready to disembark at the port nearby.  Only a few were booked on the continuing cruise to Ft. L. and hoping that cruise would take place.

Sad, very sad.  No one, not even HAL, could have expected this as the Zaandam cruised Antarctica.  I put the blame on Chile port authority.

 

 

Edited by sansterre
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Where is everyone getting this idea that the Rotterdam crew had no knowledge of this?  I find it very hard to believe that a ship took on a bunch of passengers without the crew knowing in advance.

Edited by Cruzaholic41
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I support anyone's contribution, whether of not they cruise on HAL.   As to this situation with the Zaandam, it has now become a very serious problem that is truly a matter of life and death.  I assume the Panama Canal Authority has taken a tough position because they must put some of their own employees and pilots aboard any ship transiting the canal.  As to moving folks over to the Rotterdam, that sounds like a humanitarian move that could potentially backfire in a big way.  There is no way to be absolutely sure who is healthy on the Zaandam, and even if they could test every passenger, which is not being proposed, the tests do have some false negatives...especially with those who may have recently been exposed to the virus and not yet symptomatic.  At any rate, the Rotterdam would likely be treated as an infected ship by other ports and would need to go all the way back to a California port where the CDC might well insist that everyone be quarantined for 14 more days. We did notice that HAL has not posted an update on HAL's web site so we only have the Miami Herald as a news source.

 

This is not the kind of news needed by the cruise industry and our own thoughts and prayers are with all the folks on both ships.  To put it mildly, what a mess.  

 

Hank

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2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We did notice that HAL has not posted an update on HAL's web site so we only have the Miami Herald as a news source.

I first saw it on NBC. Pretty shabby that people aren't getting notified if they've been past or present or future pax of HAL. I'm pretty stunned.

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2 hours ago, SilvertoGold said:

TWO positive out of 138 reporting symptoms?  Does this make sense?

It would make perfect sense if the two testing positive received false positive results. 

That would be my hope, but err on the side of caution and assume there could be more cases.

 

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Since none of us were in the crew meeting, perhaps we should reserve judgement.  Rumors among employees, especially in times of great stress, are rampant, and generally not entirely accurate.  I'm in HR (not with HAL).  I can't count the number of times I've said "Who told you THAT?!"

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3 minutes ago, HAL4NOW said:

It would make perfect sense if the two testing positive received false positive results. 

That would be my hope, but err on the side of caution and assume there could be more cases.

 

It makes sense if they had a limited number of testing kits.  And the dead were, I'd imagine, not tested.

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14 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

There seems to be a lot of negative sentiment on this board toward HAL’s plan to transfer the healthy to Rotterdam. From what I’ve read from HAL, the media, and knowledgeable insiders on this board, this wasn’t just some rash decision made by HAL. Government agencies like CDC and USCG were also involved in the planning. I guarantee they know much more about this situation than the rest of us. I’m thankful for these men and women who make decisions based on known facts rather than anonymous internet opinions. 

 

I think one of the issues driving the plan  is population density. Look at the land "hot spots." They're cities, where people are close together and it's difficult to do social distancing. Epidemiology 101 says the denser the population, the faster a disease spreads. We've all seen posts about "all those people crammed in close quarters on Diamond Princess." They were a VERY dense population, and look what happened.

 

Getting some of the passengers off Zaandam and onto a ship with no passenger cabins occupied reduces the population density. Put simply, they can spread people out. There are roughly 80 inside cabins and 150 or more verandahs, not counting Neptune suites. I would hope they're kind enough to put people in verandahs on Rotterdam so that it's easy to self quarantine without having to schedule outdoor time. They can probably do this without having to use too many adjacent cabins. I don't know how many additional "over 70s" there are, so that does add to the Rotterdam group. If they spread people out, there won't be the corridor from hell that was in the photo. And getting the inside cabin people off Zaandam means nobody in an outside or verandah has someone across the hall. 

 

Yes, there still is risk on Rotterdam. "Healthy" today can change to "sick" tomorrow. But it's unlikely that all of the "healthy" Zaandam passengers will get sick, especially if they can be quarantined in a less dense population. And now the crew have PPE, which should reduce the chance of this spreading. 

 

It isn't ideal, but nothing is. If the CDC signed off on this, I'll accept their judgement.

 

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I am trying to remain optimistic that all the experts involved know what the risks are and know a heck of a lot more about it than all of us on line speculators do:

 

As of yesterday, with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance, the Zaandam ship has been transferring healthy guests to another ship, the Rotterdam

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33 minutes ago, Adoptionmsw said:


It seems to me the Rotterdam crew was sandbagged. They held a meeting before the mission began and told the crew only half the story. The crew agreed to participate. As far as I can tell, this transfer of guests was a surprise. There is no guarantee the transferred guests are healthy. We know many people do not show symptoms at first but they can infect others. The memo says if they don’t want to participate, they don’t have to. Will there be peer pressure on crew members who would rather not?
My husband and I have more than 300 days on HAL and I have always thought they were an upstanding, ethical company. Now I have my doubts. The room stewards and dining stewards are not highly paid. And now to ask a healthy crew to put their lives on the line? I don’t think it’s an ethical plan.


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So you know for a fact that the decision to take on pax not displaying "flu-like symptoms" from Zaandam to Rotterdam, besides transferring medical staff and supplies from three other HAL ships to Zaandam, was made prior to the March 22 "ship's council" meeting with Rotterdam's crew? 

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44 minutes ago, Adoptionmsw said:


It seems to me the Rotterdam crew was sandbagged.... They held a meeting before the mission began and told the crew only half the story.... The room stewards and dining stewards are not highly paid. And now to ask a healthy crew to put their lives on the line? I don’t think it’s an ethical plan.


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 For me, unless I was at that meeting, I don't know what was said, or what information the Captain had at the time, and what the crew understood to be their options.  

That said,  safety at sea is the highest priority on a ship. The Rotterdam crew that's assisting the Zaandam  may someday need the favor returned.  Ships routinely help other mariners in distress and sometimes crew have to put their own lives at risk to do so. The crew member you don't help today, maybe your life boat captain tomorrow.   

 

 

 

Edited by Boatdrill
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19 minutes ago, HAL4NOW said:

It would make perfect sense if the two testing positive received false positive results. 

That would be my hope, but err on the side of caution and assume there could be more cases.

 

Yes and it could be both flu and coronavirus.  The symptoms are very similar and it is toward the end of flu season across the US.  

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