Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[dockman]

3 minutes ago, arabrab said:

Yes, it may be a factor:

 It is possible that using CPAP could increase the risk of spreading the virus to others around you. Be sure to talk to your medical provider about this risk.

https://aasm.org/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-cpap-sleep-apnea-patients/

 

Passengers have said they are happy to leave cpac machines behind to get onto Rotterdam.  As said waiting for a decision from CDC people.

[mellow moog]

It is beyond crazy to transfer any people to the rotterdam as the whole point is this virus leaves you with no symptoms for on average at least 5 days so guaranteed there are people who will transfer that already have it.

It is awful for anyone who thinks they may not have the virus but there is no point in transferring people right now. All you are doing is risking yet more people (crew of Rotterdam and debarkation port) getting infected who had no exposure before.

[sansterre]

Regarding:  test results

Remember a few days ago when the Zaandam made a turn in towards a port on the North shore of Ecuador?  I wonder if they were able to send some tests into that port, maybe via the Pilot Boat.

Why else would they have taken that turn off their otherwise beeline toward the Rotterdam?

Edited March 27, 2020 by sansterre

[Bluewake]

According to the Business Insider article:

 

"The chances that anyone will become ill from well guests is very low," it said. "There is a higher chance of becoming ill traveling through an airport to get home than there is on the ship." It also said that once at the port in the United States, the "well guests" would be "allowed to freely disembark go to a hotel or fly home with no restrictions."

 

Sure, just dump them in Florida and let them go.   What could go wrong there?  Apparently, Carnival and Holland America officers haven't heard that people who are asymptomatic spread the disease.  This from the same company officials who managed the Diamond Princess...and look how well that one went?

 

 

 

[dockman]

6 minutes ago, sansterre said:

Regarding:  test results

Remember a few days ago when the Zaandam made a turn in towards a port on the North shore of Ecuador?  I wonder if they were able to send some tests into that port, maybe via the Pilot Boat.

Why else would they have taken that turn off their otherwise beeline toward the Rotterdam?

The ship did not have coronavirus tests available on board until Thursday evening when it rendezvoused with Holland America's MS Rotterdam for additional supplies and medical personnel. On board the Zaandam there are four doctors and four nurses, and the Rotterdam is carrying two doctors and four nurses, the cruise line said.

[Seasick Sailor]

Please don't think me morbid, but how much space is available on Zaandam for deceased? 

[dennism]

Just now, Seasick Sailor said:

Please don't think me morbid, but how much space is available on Zaandam for deceased? 

Plenty of freezer and cooler space I am sure. 

[DaveSJ711]

Just posted on the NY Times.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/us/coronavirus-cruise-ships-zandaam.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[Covepointcruiser]

How can a passenger leave without their CPAP machine.   I thought those machines were required to keep them alive at night.   Those folks would never travel without their CPAP machines.

[dockman]

1 minute ago, Covepointcruiser said:

How can a passenger leave without their CPAP machine.   I thought those machines were required to keep them alive at night.   Those folks would never travel without their CPAP machines.

Some use them to control snoring...i have several friends who use them only occasionally.

[NantahalaCruiser]

23 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

There are now 127 sick people on board, The closest U.S port is San Diego, that's where they should go..

Wrong, San Diego if more than twice the distance than going to Ft. Lauderdale.

[conwakr]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

 

I wonder if you would feel that way if this happened to you?  The passengers didn't ask for this predicament, they did not anticipate such an incident, and it would not have occurred if Chile had kept its promise.  At that point there was no knowledge of any illness.

 

The U.S. has a responsibility to assist in the return of its citizens who have unlawfully or accidentally stranded in a foreign country.  That is one of the purposes of the State Department.  It is now time for the federal government to assure that this ship will be accepted in one of the California ports and our citizens disembarked.  

I don’t disagree...the operative word is assist if needed to get these people home if needed. But I personally don’t think it needs federal intervention or is the sole responsibility of the feds unless a state or local municipality refuses to help. I would hope that wouldn’t happen at a time like this in the country. 

[rkacruiser]

50 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Even Captain Alberts blog said the ship was headed to deliver medical supplies and medical staff.  Of this we can all be sure the crew were informed.  It seems the situation changed between that meeting and the events of last night.

 

That is exact;y what I read on the Captain's blog.  The situation did indeed change after that meeting. 

 

51 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

use a little empathy for the crew and put yourself in their position.  They are probably frightened 

 

I have empathy for Rotterdam's crew and surely do understand whatever fears they have.  

 

 

[cashmeremypuppydog]

5 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Wrong, San Diego if more than twice the distance than going to Ft. Lauderdale.

This was posted 1 hour ago by Copper 10-8

 

[npcl]

15 minutes ago, dockman said:

The ship did not have coronavirus tests available on board until Thursday evening when it rendezvoused with Holland America's MS Rotterdam for additional supplies and medical personnel. On board the Zaandam there are four doctors and four nurses, and the Rotterdam is carrying two doctors and four nurses, the cruise line said.

That does not explain how the two tested positive since the analysis requires lab equipment that is not on board the ships.  The analysis had to be done somewhere on shore.  

[lostchild]

35 minutes ago, dockman said:

Update five minutes ago:  They are telling healthy passengers  with CPAC machines that they cannot be transferred to Rotterdam.  Apparently a lot of people have these and are upset.  Ship is checking with CDC re this so these people are anxiously awaiting to hear response.

 

No idea why a cpac would be a factor.

 

CPAP machines?   Maybe the Rotterdam doesn't have enough extension cables to plug those in.  Most cabin doesn't have a plug next to the bed... have to run an extension cable to the nearest plug.   Or they just don't want the crew going into the cabins to do this (running the cable under the bed and put tape over so you don't trip) when the passengers have arrived already.   

[TwoMisfits]

At this point, there may be a decision to have people ride it out on both ships.  I'm sure they are hoping the Rotterdam will be allowed to port somewhere with healthy folks, but it's almost certain the Zaandam will become a floating hospital ala the NY cruise terminal becoming a hospital for NYC...

[AlanF65]

25 minutes ago, arabrab said:

Yes, it may be a factor:

 It is possible that using CPAP could increase the risk of spreading the virus to others around you. Be sure to talk to your medical provider about this risk.

https://aasm.org/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-cpap-sleep-apnea-patients/

CPAP is constant positive airway pressure to force air in, the most likely way to infect others would be leaks  around the face or the vent to relieve pressure. The risk is to someone sleeping in the room and dissipates in about 4 hours. Other than that CPAP devices help people breathe and keep them from stopping breathing.

A-

[CruiserBruce]

21 minutes ago, Bluewake said:

According to the Business Insider article:

 

"The chances that anyone will become ill from well guests is very low," it said. "There is a higher chance of becoming ill traveling through an airport to get home than there is on the ship." It also said that once at the port in the United States, the "well guests" would be "allowed to freely disembark go to a hotel or fly home with no restrictions."

 

Sure, just dump them in Florida and let them go.   What could go wrong there?  Apparently, Carnival and Holland America officers haven't heard that people who are asymptomatic spread the disease.  This from the same company officials who managed the Diamond Princess...and look how well that one went?

 

 

 

Ah, no. Princess officials don't manage HAL. And what other solutions do you offer, as opposed to the Diamond Princess situation? A cruise line can't just dock and offload patients wherever they feel like. Curious to know what you would have done differently?

[LMaxwell]

40 minutes ago, npcl said:

 The Rotterdam would not have the equipment either. 

 

Allegedly the Rotterdam was dispatched with a number of kits to meet Zaandam.  Some tests can give results in a few hours. 

[dockman]

4 minutes ago, lostchild said:

 

CPAP machines?   Maybe the Rotterdam doesn't have enough extension cables to plug those in.  Most cabin doesn't have a plug next to the bed... have to run an extension cable to the nearest plug.   Or they just don't want the crew going into the cabins to do this (running the cable under the bed and put tape over so you don't trip) when the passengers have arrived already.   

 

I assume that was some attempt at humour.  Not least bit funny. 

 

The last thing my brother is worried about is whether he will have an extension cord or someone to plug it in for him.  He has said he will happily leave the machine behind to be transferred to the rotterdam.

[lostchild]

2 minutes ago, dockman said:

 

I assume that was some attempt at humour.  Not least bit funny. 

 

The last thing my brother is worried about is whether he will have an extension cord or someone to plug it in for him.  He has said he will happily leave the machine behind to be transferred to the rotterdam.

 

It's not humor.  If you brother could leave his CPAP machine behind, he doesn't have severe sleep apnea.  People like me, with severe sleep apnea, could die in the middle of the night without CPAP machine.   I bring my own extension cord to the hotels but when I cruise, I can't because the rule onboard prohibit bringing your own extension cord.

[TiogaCruiser]

12 minutes ago, npcl said:

That does not explain how the two tested positive since the analysis requires lab equipment that is not on board the ships.  The analysis had to be done somewhere on shore.  

I’ve been wondering about the tests also. 
The current tests we use from CDC are PCR tests and are labor intensive to run, and require a lab.

Maybe the test kits came from a source other than the US. Other countries with Covid experience have developed and tested other tests.

[WonderMan3]

29 minutes ago, Bluewake said:

According to the Business Insider article:

 

"The chances that anyone will become ill from well guests is very low," it said. "There is a higher chance of becoming ill traveling through an airport to get home than there is on the ship." It also said that once at the port in the United States, the "well guests" would be "allowed to freely disembark go to a hotel or fly home with no restrictions."

 

Sure, just dump them in Florida and let them go.   What could go wrong there?  Apparently, Carnival and Holland America officers haven't heard that people who are asymptomatic spread the disease.  This from the same company officials who managed the Diamond Princess...and look how well that one went?

 

 

 

 

The guests are "well" now but that could change; they may just not be showing symptoms yet. They have been on a ship with the virus spreading for some time now. Remember that it was stated earlier in this thread that when they reached Chile that all onboard had passed a health check and yet subsequent to that time we have 4 deaths and over a hundred sick. Why risk a situation where you may now have a second ship with sick passengers if they start to show symptoms after transferring. Makes no sense.

[LMaxwell]

25 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Wrong, San Diego if more than twice the distance than going to Ft. Lauderdale.

 

They have been denied passage through the Panama Canal, making San Diego the closest US port.