Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[dockman]

zaandam update five mins ago:  Got served dinner in room last night at 10 PM and breakfast at 11 AM...Say it was a feast.  Ship going 20 knots and plan a is still to go to FLL and arrive on March 30 but of course all subject to change.

[NCTribeFan]

15 hours ago, rafinmd said:

What were they supposed to do, throw everybody overboard?

 

Roy

 

Did I suggest that?  No. 

 

But ships have been struggling to find ports to allow passengers to disembark for the past couple of weeks.  Once a line decided to stop sending out ships, why didn't they stop the ones already at sea, get permission to disembark the pax BEFORE people started getting sick?  Seems it would've been much easier to do this before this pandemic had spread so much.

 

Now that they have sick people on board, it will most likely spread to others (since we now know that people can be contagious for days before they realize they're sick).  And finding a port to allow pax to disembark has gotten more and more difficult as time goes by.

 

It would've been the prudent thing to do.  Too late now, though!

[viajante74]

I am on the Zaandam. We were supposed to disembark on the 16th in Punta Arenas. It looked like we'd be allowed to do so. People were arranging their flights. Then Chile did a U-turn and denied us entry (despite everyone on board passing the health screening at the time). Not much we could do.

[Desert Diamond]

Here is some updated info from the Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/03/22/cruise-ship-is-still-trying-get-passengers-port-now-42-people-board-are-sick/

[sansterre]

24 minutes ago, Desert Diamond said:

Here is some updated info from the Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/03/22/cruise-ship-is-still-trying-get-passengers-port-now-42-people-board-are-sick/

Interestingly, this article seems to quote this thread on Cruise Critic!

[fatcat04]

WaPo paywalled that article for me. 

 

This may be the same article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-cruise-ship-is-still-trying-to-get-passengers-to-port-now-42-people-onboard-are-sick/ar-BB11ylyX

[whogo]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

OMG!  Do you think a HAL physician or nurse can tell the difference between food poisoning and "flu like symptoms?"  

 

Hank

Gastrointestinal food poisoning or respiratory flu like ailment, how will they tell, how will they tell.

[iancal]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cruise-ship-holland-america-covid-19-canadians-1.5506674

[gatour]

17 hours ago, d9704011 said:

I believe it is shorter/quicker to get to Fort Lauderdale from where they are despite the Panama Canal transit.

Yes are correct.   Ft Lauderdale is a shorter distance from their current location than LA

[wheezedr]

2 minutes ago, gatour said:

Yes are correct.   Ft Lauderdale is a shorter distance from their current location than LA

FL is closer but the big question remains whether Panama will allow them to transit the canal. Hard to predict anything in these changing times.  

[gatour]

1 hour ago, NCTribeFan said:

 

Did I suggest that?  No. 

 

But ships have been struggling to find ports to allow passengers to disembark for the past couple of weeks.  Once a line decided to stop sending out ships, why didn't they stop the ones already at sea, get permission to disembark the pax BEFORE people started getting sick?  Seems it would've been much easier to do this before this pandemic had spread so much.

 

Now that they have sick people on board, it will most likely spread to others (since we now know that people can be contagious for days before they realize they're sick).  And finding a port to allow pax to disembark has gotten more and more difficult as time goes by.

 

It would've been the prudent thing to do.  Too late now, though!

Most of the ships were on round trip cruises.  Easier to get everyone back to the their homeport where passengers has transport waiting either cars or flights.  If they had flights they could move the flights up if available.

 

If the ship stopped at the closest port (provided the port allows them to dock and disembark passengers, then the logistics of getting them becomes much harder.  Actually this cruise is an example of your thoughts.  They decided to end the cruise early and the port that they were going to disembark the passengers first agreed then reneged on the agreement.

[edward01ca]

38 minutes ago, whogo said:

Gastrointestinal food poisoning or respiratory flu like ailment, how will they tell, how will they tell.

The two problems are quite distinct.  On the news here in Canada, a gastrointestinal problem involves usually severe vomiting and diarrhea with an elevated temperature.  This could be food poisoning or Norwalk.  Covid-19 is a respiratory infection with high fever, dry throat, dry coughing and an elevated temperature.  I am quite sure that medical personnel on the ship can tell the difference.  

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

 

But ships have been struggling to find ports to allow passengers to disembark for the past couple of weeks.  Once a line decided to stop sending out ships, why didn't they stop the ones already at sea, get permission to disembark the pax BEFORE people started getting sick?  Seems it would've been much easier to do this before this pandemic had spread so much.

 

HAL started their 30 day shut down Mar 13th. Its now the 23rd. How many ports has turned Zaandam down? At least a couple. How many ports could handle 2000 (including crew) just standing around waiting for flights?

 

I think your comment to just "get permission" is a little 20-20 hindsight-ish. It sounds from people on the cruise they did in fact try to end the cruise and send people home, and they got no permission from the countries. Maasdam also tried to end in Hawaii, and got declined. 

[TiogaCruiser]

37 minutes ago, edward01ca said:

The two problems are quite distinct.  On the news here in Canada, a gastrointestinal problem involves usually severe vomiting and diarrhea with an elevated temperature.  This could be food poisoning or Norwalk.  Covid-19 is a respiratory infection with high fever, dry throat, dry coughing and an elevated temperature.  I am quite sure that medical personnel on the ship can tell the difference.  

And there is documentation that SOME have had their upper respiratory symptoms after GI symptoms, with evidence of virus in their stools. (Whether the virus is viable is not determined.) see recent Medscape article.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926856?src=mkm_ret_200322_mscpmrk_gastroenterology_covid&uac=145119HK&impID=2318549&faf=1

Edited March 23, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[Tampa Girl]

3 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

 

Did I suggest that?  No. 

 

But ships have been struggling to find ports to allow passengers to disembark for the past couple of weeks.  Once a line decided to stop sending out ships, why didn't they stop the ones already at sea, get permission to disembark the pax BEFORE people started getting sick?  Seems it would've been much easier to do this before this pandemic had spread so much.

 

Now that they have sick people on board, it will most likely spread to others (since we now know that people can be contagious for days before they realize they're sick).  And finding a port to allow pax to disembark has gotten more and more difficult as time goes by.

 

It would've been the prudent thing to do.  Too late now, though!

 

That is what HAL has been trying to do since mid-February, before before they announced a suspension.  Remember the Westerdam?  There were no cases aboard and the Captain was contacting every available port in Asia to disembark his passengers.  As far as I know, HAL immediately tried to end its ongoing the voyages at the time it announced the suspension.  Correct me, please, but which of HAL's ship have reported COVID.19?  Look at the trouble both the Amsterdam and Zaandam have had in finding a port.  The Zaandam is still trying and hoping that it receives permission to transit the Panama Canal.

[sofietucker]

1 hour ago, edward01ca said:

The two problems are quite distinct.  On the news here in Canada, a gastrointestinal problem involves usually severe vomiting and diarrhea with an elevated temperature.  This could be food poisoning or Norwalk.  Covid-19 is a respiratory infection with high fever, dry throat, dry coughing and an elevated temperature.  I am quite sure that medical personnel on the ship can tell the difference.  

I believe whogo was being sacastic. 

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

 

But ships have been struggling to find ports to allow passengers to disembark for the past couple of weeks.  Once a line decided to stop sending out ships, why didn't they stop the ones already at sea, get permission to disembark the pax BEFORE people started getting sick?  Seems it would've been much easier to do this before this pandemic had spread so much.

 

It would've been the prudent thing to do.  Too late now, though!

Chile, Argentina, Peru and Ecuador have all denied Zaandam permission to dock...I believe all since March 15. HAL froze it's cruises March 13. It would seem they tried to end the cruise pretty thoroughly, thus far.

[Tampa Girl]

7 hours ago, Hlitner said:

OMG!  Do you think a HAL physician or nurse can tell the difference between food poisoning and "flu like symptoms?"  

 

Hank

 

Are you being funny?  Because if you are not, I can assure you, having twice in the last 18 months, been treated for influenza and quarantined aboard a HAL ship, their medical staff is excellent and knows what they are doing. The latest incident, BTW, was aboard the Zaandam last December in Antarctica.  Thank goodness for large balcony cabins!  Otherwise I would have missed the main attraction.

[Hlitner]

33 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Are you being funny?  Because if you are not, I can assure you, having twice in the last 18 months, been treated for influenza and quarantined aboard a HAL ship, their medical staff is excellent and knows what they are doing. The latest incident, BTW, was aboard the Zaandam last December in Antarctica.  Thank goodness for large balcony cabins!  Otherwise I would have missed the main attraction.

Oh my,  I suspect you did not read the post to which I had responded.

 

Hank

[whogo]

52 minutes ago, sofietucker said:

I believe whogo was being sacastic. 

Indeed I was.

[LMaxwell]

Are there any updates?  I believe this information is now 36 hours old; have there been more flu like cases onboard?  What is destination and route?  Are cruisers looking at a minimum of 8 days in cabins before a port can be reached that will allow them to disembark?

[Wehwalt]

10 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Are there any updates?  I believe this information is now 36 hours old; have there been more flu like cases onboard?  What is destination and route?  Are cruisers looking at a minimum of 8 days in cabins before a port can be reached that will allow them to disembark?

According to my Navigator app, she is off the coast of southern Peru. This is an interesting article that says there are unconfirmed reports Rotterdam is moving to meet her. Rotterdam is certainly moving, according to my app.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/cruise-ship-zaandam-reports-42-people-with-flu-like-symptoms-on-board

Edited March 23, 2020 by Wehwalt

[LMaxwell]

6 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

According to my Navigator app, she is off the coast of southern Peru. This is an interesting article that says there are unconfirmed reports Rotterdam is moving to meet her. Rotterdam is certainly moving, according to my app.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/cruise-ship-zaandam-reports-42-people-with-flu-like-symptoms-on-board

 

I wonder if there will be updates here? https://www.captainalbert.com/

[DAllenTCY]

Yesterday the Captain mentioned that the Rotterdam is going to bunker fuel.

 

David

[Desert Diamond]

Here is another link although not much new information.

https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-america-cruise-zaandam-passengers-crew-flu-symptoms-2020-3