Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Randyk47]

Naval Air Station Mayport in Jacksonville might be an option.  Still in Florida and they do have port facilities. 

[geneandmary]

“We cannot afford to have people who are not even Floridians dumped into South Florida using up those valuable resources," he said, adding he is in touch with the White House over the fate of these ships. “We view this as a big, big problem and we don’t want to see people dumped in southern Florida right now.”

 

dumped?

[conwakr]

Are people thinking that they will transfer healthy passengers to military transport planes to get them to their countries and states?  I'm not sure I understand what part the military plays in this anymore to be honest. Or are they thinking the ill would be triaged at the military hospital on a  base and 2 viral tests administered to all passengers on both ships there before the healthy get transported to airports?   I'm not sure I'm seeing what role the military plays in this virus anymore.  These are the flights in the air at the time I wrote this. 

[conwakr]

3 minutes ago, geneandmary said:

“We cannot afford to have people who are not even Floridians dumped into South Florida using up those valuable resources," he said, adding he is in touch with the White House over the fate of these ships. “We view this as a big, big problem and we don’t want to see people dumped in southern Florida right now.”

 

dumped?

A touch out of touch with reality for sure. 

[Barney10]

5 minutes ago, geneandmary said:

“We cannot afford to have people who are not even Floridians dumped into South Florida using up those valuable resources," he said, adding he is in touch with the White House over the fate of these ships. “We view this as a big, big problem and we don’t want to see people dumped in southern Florida right now.”

 

dumped?

We dump garbage, we don’t dump humans.

[DFD1]

He would have been better served to stay off national television for the time being. He is not good with "off the cuff" remarks.

[capriccio]

DeSantis when announcing a "Safer at Home" policy until mid-May (without any details) for southeast Florida this morning in Miami also said

 

“We think it’s a mistake to be putting people into southern Florida right now given what we’re dealing with,” DeSantis said. He said it would be better to send medical aid to the ship. “A lot of these are foreign nationals, and we want to make sure we have the beds available for the folks here in southern Florida.”

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-florida-coronavirus-holland-cruise-fort-lauderdale-20200329-vvm6xggbbvfm5hx5a6av4piery-story.html?utm_medium=notification&utm_source=onesignal

[bob brown]

I have been following this, perhaps the most compelling thread of all time on Cruise Critic's....

Thanks to all those who have voiced their varied opinion's, whatever they may be...a microcosm of world opinion's.

And special thanks to all those with extensive cruise and marine knowledge, that have taken the time to explain thing's to us all.

With a shout out to those up all night capturing screen shots and posting them here of the AIS and Canal Cams...

 

*

 

As a South Florida resident, I am appalled by some of this NIMBYism displayed by certain politician's, as well as some of our poster's.   After having gone thru a similar dilemma of being refused disembarkation, and uncertainty on my recent Antarctica cruise, I have strong empathy for the plight of those on the Zaandam, and other's in their position.   I would welcome them to my county, and city for relief.   I believe they will disembark in Port Everglades, and will receive similar handling as the Grand Princess did in Oakland.

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, DFD1 said:

HAL is not going to give you a minute-by-minute report on its efforts to deal with this situation...whether you want it or not.

 

They would be irresponsible to constantly feed the public information which is not finalized and could change half a dozen time before it is finalized.

 

Be reasonable. This thing will be worked out the best HAL, Broward County and the Federal Government can do, but it will take some time.

 

At this point in the crisis reasonable is daily updates from leadership on the facts of the matter as they stand.  Asking leadership to be visible is a basic of crisis management. I am sure they are in talks with Broward County but what they are hoping to achieve has not really been disseminated. 

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

I wonder about that contention.  The County might own the port, but I suspect that it receives federal funds and the management is certainly subject to some extent by federal law.  The President has declared a state of emergency, which give his enormous powers over private entities.  We will see if those powers intervene.

Here is some additional information on the Port for all interested. 

 

Can the Federal Govt compel a port to open or is that under Governor DeSantis? 

 

https://www.porteverglades.net/about-us/

[arabrab]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I didn't see the show, but the description in the earlier post and your comment reminds me of the old newspaper saying "if it bleeds, it leads." My take is that the couple who didn't get moved had an axe to grind. They or someone they know contacted news stations or news stations found them from posts online somewhere and boom! we have a news story. 

 

 

Why not assume that this is their truth and their experience? Are they supposed to be all "happy happy joy joy" in this situation? 

 

From several reports (and not just theirs) passengers and (some) crew aren't being given much information. If folks still on board the Zaandam are thrilled with the way things are going they are certainly free to say so. 

[2+2]

USA will have a plan. It is in our blood, it is what we do, and continue to do. It is what we fought for. Your in good hands . Just be patient.

[Tampa Girl]

4 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Here is some additional information on the Port for all interested. 

 

Can the Federal Govt compel a port to open or is that under Governor DeSantis? 

 

https://www.porteverglades.net/about-us/

 

I think it would have to be the federal government.  It does not appear that the port receives any state funds - at least, directly.  Still, I am sure that it is operating under state-issued licenses, federal licenses, local licenses, etc., etc.  There is bound to be some portal through which any of these entities could require the port to accept the ship, under reasonable safety provisions.

[kennystwin]

19 minutes ago, Max2003 said:

On the west side of Cuba, in about 40 hours they will still have options. If things don't work out, I would look seriously at Galveston (already familiar with cruise ship ops).  Not far from Lackland (used before) and Fort Hood.  

Galveston would be a great option. Besides the cruise port, there is a large University of Texas Medical School there and there is a huge medical complex in Houston 60 miles away. Local hotels could likely be used to quarantine asymptomatic passengers, and, as you mention, Lackland AFB is not far away. Plus, our Texas culture would more likely lead to a compassionate welcome than some of the "not in  my back yard" attitudes we hear from Florida (and yes, I know that isn't everyone). Regardless of where these ships wind up, I'm sure HAL and the various authorities are working feverishly to put lots of resources in place to handle the arrivals. My thoughts and prayers are with the passengers and crews on these ships as well as all those preparing for their arrival.

 

(BTW, a selfish thought: if they decide to use a Texas port, maybe HAL would show their gratitude by home porting a ship in Galveston. I'd love to be able to drive to a HAL cruise!)

[3rdGenCunarder]

17 minutes ago, arabrab said:

Why not assume that this is their truth and their experience? Are they supposed to be all "happy happy joy joy" in this situation? 

 

From several reports (and not just theirs) passengers and (some) crew aren't being given much information. If folks still on board the Zaandam are thrilled with the way things are going they are certainly free to say so. 

 

Because sensationalism does not help. I'm not asking for happy happy joy joy. I'm asking for a rational approach. The reporter's tag line about leaving people to die was way OTT. People need to tone it down. I've seen references here to "chaos," that when explained weren't all that chaotic. 

 

As for information, how many hours did the two ships spend moving passengers? It was a huge undertaking. Better the ships put their efforts to that than to sending out "here's how we're doing" messages. It's an extraordinary situation and I know that passengers are worried. But contacting the press to complain is not helpful to anyone. And the press digging around for unhappy passengers to report on doesn't help, either.

 

Edited to add that I tracked down the Today Show report. The passengers who compared it to a "prison" are in a verandah or maybe a suite. I didn't get a good look at the whole cabin, but it was not an inside or an OV. I could see the full-length drapes. So they already had access to fresh air. They should not have been prioritized over someone in an inside cabin. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by 3rdGenCunarder

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, phil09 said:

 

Looking at the Governor's quote posted above (thanks capriccio) - he seemed to emphasize "south" Florida.  There are other Florida ports.  I can't see any way there will not be a solution for a Florida port.  One way or the other.

I think Tampa is viable.  Sailing distance possibly even shorter; there are temporary field hospitals and rapid testing sites at the Villages; 1 hour from Port Tampa 

[Boatdrill]

9 hours ago, sailingdutchy said:

 

 

I know but as a former  " Dutch " Civil Engineer , Roads , bridges , waterways and locks , I had to see the new locks of the Panama Canal 

The new gates waiting to be installed  (April 2014).   

Edited March 30, 2020 by Boatdrill

[Aquahound]

Folks, I really want this thread to stay open so can you please heed the moderator's repeated warnings and stay on topic?  This thread is about Zaandam, not FL's governor.  

[kangforpres]

In CA the Local, State and Federal Gov't all worked together on the Grand Princess emergency. It was a multiple jurisdiction, multiple agency effort.

 

The same will have to happen where ever the Zaandam winds up, maybe it would be better for the people on board the Zaandam if they went to TX, instead of FL.

[DFD1]

26 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Because sensationalism does not help. I'm not asking for happy happy joy joy. I'm asking for a rational approach. The reporter's tag line about leaving people to die was way OTT. People need to tone it down. I've seen references here to "chaos," that when explained weren't all that chaotic. 

 

As for information, how many hours did the two ships spend moving passengers? It was a huge undertaking. Better the ships put their efforts to that than to sending out "here's how we're doing" messages. It's an extraordinary situation and I know that passengers are worried. But contacting the press to complain is not helpful to anyone. And the press digging around for unhappy passengers to report on doesn't help, either.

 

Edited to add that I tracked down the Today Show report. The passengers who compared it to a "prison" are in a verandah or maybe a suite. I didn't get a good look at the whole cabin, but it was not an inside or an OV. I could see the full-length drapes. So they already had access to fresh air. They should not have been prioritized over someone in an inside cabin. 

Extremely well said. Thanks.

 

I have almost stopped watching the evening national news because of the "push" and the sensational tone of voice in the whole news cast. Every word and every syllable is pushed to the point of almost hysteria.

Sometimes it's almost like Jerry Springer doing the news. It would be funny if it were not so serious.

[ger_77]

Good morning everyone; I had to spend some time reading the posts to catch up.  I'm a pretty happy-go-lucky type of person, but the past few days I've found that I need to disconnect from electronics (TV and computer) because when I close my eyes, all I see is sad and scary.

 

I'm delighted to see that both the Zaandam and Rotterdam were granted permission to transit the Panama Canal, and that they were both in the new locks as well!  I now hope all goes smoothly for everyone on both ships, and that they'll be able to dock "somewhere" safely, without issue.  Special thanks for the screen captures of the transits, so I could catch up on what was happening with these two ships.  This is quite the community we have here.  Kudos to everyone who contributed.

 

Smooth Sailing! 🙂🙂🙂

Gerry

[Hlitner]

11 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

Folks, I really want this thread to stay open so can you please heed the moderator's repeated warnings and stay on topic?  This thread is about Zaandam, not FL's governor.  

At this point it seems impossible to separate the two.  As an American I am truly appalled at the comments and actions of several of our governors vis-à-vis cruise ships and other travelers/tourists.  The governor of Florida needs to work with the other relevant parties to agree on the best way to welcome the two HAL vessels, their passengers, and crew.  Florida has been happy to accept the large amounts of money that have been generated by the cruise industry, and there just seems to be something horribly wrong about now turning their back when the industry needs their help, not scorn.  

 

Hank

[baggal]

27 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

Folks, I really want this thread to stay open so can you please heed the moderator's repeated warnings and stay on topic?  This thread is about Zaandam, not FL's governor.  

 

I apologize for my comments in an inappropriate thread.  I too would really like this thread to continue.  I just want to remind some of the posters here that you may know one or two or more of the passengers currently on the Zaandam or Rotterdam - having met them on a previous cruise and enjoyed their company.  HAVE A LITTLE COMPASSION!

[TwoMisfits]

I haven't seen anyone discuss the possibility that rather one debarkation and having to move everyone by chartered flights...there could be as many as 3-4 debarkations - one for US passengers in the US, one for Canadians in Canada, and one for Europeans somewhere in Europe or at a European point (since Europe has used some islands as a charter jump off point), before coming back to South America with whomever is left.

 

It is probably "more containable and possible" for countries to accept their own passengers back and start dealing with the smaller number, than to also work on the logistics of 1000 more people going to tens to hundreds of places...

 

And b/c the ships made it through the canal, the multiple port debark becomes possible...

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, TwoMisfits said:

I haven't seen anyone discuss the possibility that rather one debarkation and having to move everyone by chartered flights...there could be as many as 3-4 debarkations - one for US passengers in the US, one for Canadians in Canada, and one for Europeans somewhere in Europe or at a European point (since Europe has used some islands as a charter jump off point), before coming back to South America with whomever is left.

 

It is probably "more containable and possible" for countries to accept their own passengers back and start dealing with the smaller number, than to also work on the logistics of 1000 more people going to tens to hundreds of places...

 

And b/c the ships made it through the canal, the multiple port debark becomes possible...

 

That would be be convenient for passengers and reduce the effect on each port compared to disembarking everyone at once. But I don't see it happening. Logistically difficult with so many ports refusing ships. HAL will be lucky to find one port that will take the passengers. They can't gamble on finding multiple ports, especially with the distance they'd have to travel doing that.