Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Lovincruisin1321]

1 hour ago, sail2day said:

I agree with your comments. As a Floridian and a resident of Miami we cannot turn our backs on the passengers and crew of the Zaandam. The ship will have to dock somewhere. We could handle the docking the same as the Grand Princess in Oakland. Offload passengers and fly them out to their respective countries. The balance of the passengers should go in to quarantine somewhere in the U.S.

"Offload passengers and fly them out to their respective countries. The balance of the passengers should go in to quarantine somewhere in the U.S."

Respectfully I am commenting on this statement - I would prefer that where ever they dock, passengers are immediately quarantined for 14 days at that location facility and not transported to fly out to respective countries or somewhere in the U.S.  This is how the virus is spreading and exploding.  We need to keep it contained.

[Digjharper]

Why can they not drop US citizens off in Florida then head up the coast and let the Canadians off in Halifax. At the same time, second ship could cross the Atlantic and drop off all the European guests in Rotterdam.

 

any non US/ Canadian / European guests could also get off in either Florida port or even Halifax and put on to chartered flights (paid for by either HAL or their own countries).

[Vict0riann]

Unfortunately, a lot of the ill people are crew.

[bluesea321]

24 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Maybe Galveston, TX would work?

 

Doubt Galveston would be available, anyone arriving from even Louisiana (and NY, NJ, etc.) is being quarantined.  The DPS is manning main roads at the borders to enforce the rule.  Galveston is locked down.

 

https://abc13.com/health/texas-quarantine-order-now-includes-all-louisiana-travelers/6060832/

Edited March 30, 2020 by bluesea321

[conwakr]

2 minutes ago, Lovincruisin1321 said:

"Offload passengers and fly them out to their respective countries. The balance of the passengers should go in to quarantine somewhere in the U.S."

Respectfully I am commenting on this statement - I would prefer that where ever they dock, passengers are immediately quarantined for 14 days at that location facility and not transported to fly out to respective countries or somewhere in the U.S.  This is how the virus is spreading and exploding.  We need to keep it contained.

I don't know if that is practical anymore.  In general people are being asked to self quarantine after traveling from one location to another in many states.  To assume that how something was handled 3 weeks ago is what will happen today is just an unknown.  We will just need to wait a day or so until the ships are closer to the US but I do think they need to arrive at a port where international flights are fairly close - direct flights - not flights that go to New York or Chicago or LA so near Miami International makes the most sense to me.  

[Cindy]

3 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

Just after making my post above, I received this notification.  Governor DeSantis on Fox News says no.

 

“We cannot afford to have people who are not even Floridians dumped into South Florida using up those valuable resources," he said, adding he is in touch with the White House over the fate of these ships. “We view this as a big, big problem and we don’t want to see people dumped in southern Florida right now.”

Dumped? We’re talking about 300+ US citizens trapped in an untenable situation, not the kitchen garbage.😢

 

I understand the need for planning and caution, but I also think some compassion is in order. 
 

This may not be a popular sentiment, but I believe we need a federal response and action plan. As things are right now, there are so many decisions being made by individual states it would take a week just to become familiar with the restrictions. United we’re not.

[Tampa Girl]

49 minutes ago, zonacruiser25 said:

HAL is likely working diligently on arrangements for both ships.  Once they finish the dance with port authorities and government authorities I am certain we will get information form HAL or those currently on these ships.  It was gratifying to see the excitement and joy as they transited the canal.  Unfortunately the CC lawyers and other experts seem to not be able to contain themselves to out do each other with their "knowledge".  I pray for the health and saftey of all of the HAL passengers and crew and I hope that their return will be safe and all get care or quarantine or both and get home safely to families and loved ones! 

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to as "knowledge."  Many posters, myself included, have thrown out suggestions for the sake of discussion, hoping to get further info or answers to our questions.  My apologies if you find these suggestions or questions objectionable.  I have always found that exchanges of ideas to be most worthwhile.

[dockman]

update from brother on ship rotterdam:

 

says new captain making lot of announcements re his commitment to keep them all safe etc...says no word yet as to destination as situation is fluid....says very nice to be on rotterdam as everything very clean...of course no room stewards in rooms on zdam for long time so no serious room cleaning though they did get clean sheets and towels left at door...

 

that's about it...he did say that they are through canal and that everyone had to keep their drapes and verandah doors closed during canal passage

[arabrab]

4 minutes ago, dockman said:

update from brother on ship rotterdam:

 

says new captain making lot of announcements re his commitment to keep them all safe etc...says no word yet as to destination as situation is fluid....says very nice to be on rotterdam as everything very clean...of course no room stewards in rooms on zdam for long time so no serious room cleaning though they did get clean sheets and towels left at door...

 

that's about it...he did say that they are through canal and that everyone had to keep their drapes and verandah doors closed during canal passage

I'm glad your brother is doing well. Someday, I hope there is an explanation for the drapes closed requirement while they were passing through the canal. That is...weird.

[2+2]

What I am saying is, the US had a plan for the Grand Princess, and also did a great job with the American passengers on the Diamond Princess, for both those that were sick and those that were quarentined. And now they will have a similar plan for the passengers of these two ships. It may not be perfect, but it will happen. And for those sick, you need to know that the US has some of the the best health care in the world.  Now let's prove it.

[npcl]

Personally I think that Holland America should make arrangements with a shutdown hotel, near a port. Pay for all associated expenses including 1. transport from the ship to the hotel  2. use their medical personnel  and equipment to provide medical support 3. The hotel itself operated as a quarantine site, with part of the hotel set aside for ill passengers. 4. Only transport those that cannot be cared for to hospitals (this assumes that they do have some equipment from ships to provide oxygen support).

 

This would not be unlike what the military did at Miramar, Travis and Lackland.  But using cruise line resources, not state or federal.

 

They can then discuss with various countries if they want their residents back and if so the process. There are hotels with multiple buildings to separate the ill from those in quarantine without symptoms.

Edited March 30, 2020 by npcl

[Boatdrill]

57 minutes ago, Digjharper said:

Why can they not drop US citizens off in Florida then head up the coast and let the Canadians off in Halifax. At the same time, second ship could cross the Atlantic and drop off all the European guests in Rotterdam.

 

any non US/ Canadian / European guests could also get off in either Florida port or even Halifax and put on to chartered flights (paid for by either HAL or their own countries).

A similar situation in San Diego with the Celebrity Eclipse, which docked there this morning,. The Eclipse had also come from South America, where they were denied ports. The ship has no reported health problems, and is disembarking passengers to fly home.  However,  according to news reports and passengers onboard,  once disembarkation is completed in a day or so, the Eclipse will sail for Acapulco, to disembark passengers who don't have valid travel documents to enter the United States.    

 

The important difference between the Eclipse, and the Z and R, is that the HAL ships have ill passengers and crew, and time is of the essence to get them ashore .  

Edited March 30, 2020 by Boatdrill

[Sailor_Sally]

The Diamond Princess incident happened before our hospitals got overrun with the virus .Our healthcare is taxed to it's max. .Sorry this has happened but the plan needs to come from Holland America and they also need to bear the costs .

[gatour]

Someone posted a link to the ports website.  On the page linked, it said "the port doesn't use any LOCAL funds for capital project" blah blah.  The capitalization is mine.  That implies that they may use state and federal funds for certain projects.  And I bet they can hit up Broward County for funds.  Jacksonville is busy deepening the St Johns river channel.  The first phases were funded with Federal and State dollars.  Late last year they threw out the number of dollars that the city/county (we have a consolidated gov't) need to provide.

 

I did some research,  Port Everglades received permission from the Corp of Engineers to deepen their port starting in 2021.  So yes the federal gov't does have pressure points that they can apply to "encourage" the governor/Broward county

 

Jacksonville has NS Mayport where two conventional powered carries were home ported along with destroyers.  Now it is hosting the east coast fleet of littoral ships along with a few others.  There is also NAS Jacksonville across town.  AS stands air station so it has big runway.

 

Someone mention Kings Bay.  I did some research and I don't think the channel is deep enough.  I believe subs leave and return on the surface.

 

Someone asked.  The closest airport to Kings Bay is Jacksonville International.

 

Jacksonville is already hosting three crew only NCL ships along with the Carnival ship that is home ported here.  The three NCL ships are utilizing various cargo terminal docks spread along the St Johns river.

 

As a resident of Jacksonville, I would have no issue if they decide to send either or both HAL ships here as long as they have a plan based on lessons learned from the Princess ship.

[HokiePoq]

20 minutes ago, arabrab said:

I'm glad your brother is doing well. Someday, I hope there is an explanation for the drapes closed requirement while they were passing through the canal. That is...weird.

Yes, it is.  Only time we've had to do that was sailing through the area frequented by the Somali pirates.   

[AmBear]

12 minutes ago, gatour said:

Someone posted a link to the ports website.  On the page linked, it said "the port doesn't use any LOCAL funds for capital project" blah blah.  The capitalization is mine.  That implies that they may use state and federal funds for certain projects.  And I bet they can hit up Broward County for funds.  Jacksonville is busy deepening the St Johns river channel.  The first phases were funded with Federal and State dollars.  Late last year they threw out the number of dollars that the city/county (we have a consolidated gov't) need to provide.

 

I did some research,  Port Everglades received permission from the Corp of Engineers to deepen their port starting in 2021.  So yes the federal gov't does have pressure points that they can apply to "encourage" the governor/Broward county

 

Jacksonville has NS Mayport where two conventional powered carries were home ported along with destroyers.  Now it is hosting the east coast fleet of littoral ships along with a few others.  There is also NAS Jacksonville across town.  AS stands air station so it has big runway.

 

Someone mention Kings Bay.  I did some research and I don't think the channel is deep enough.  I believe subs leave and return on the surface.

 

Someone asked.  The closest airport to Kings Bay is Jacksonville International.

 

Jacksonville is already hosting three crew only NCL ships along with the Carnival ship that is home ported here.  The three NCL ships are utilizing various cargo terminal docks spread along the St Johns river.

 

As a resident of Jacksonville, I would have no issue if they decide to send either or both HAL ships here as long as they have a plan based on lessons learned from the Princess ship.

If you mean the port downtown, I think Mayport farther to the East away from the City would be a better location because of infections!

About Kingsbay, not sure of the depth there but those tridents even on the surface have a lot below the surface, so who knows???

About the waterways, Ports only own the land, the Feds own the water!

Edited March 30, 2020 by AmBear

[RJB]

3 hours ago, 2+2 said:

USA will have a plan. It is in our blood, it is what we do, and continue to do. It is what we fought for. Your in good hands . Just be patient.

There are many sick people on this ship and they must be taken care of.  That is what we do in our country

[gatour]

25 minutes ago, arabrab said:

I'm glad your brother is doing well. Someday, I hope there is an explanation for the drapes closed requirement while they were passing through the canal. That is...weird.

I have same question in regards having the balcony lights off and the drapes closed. 

 

I just came up with one theory.  While the locks are lit up like a Christmas tree, Gatun lake etc are not.  Having the lights off and the drapes close would help with navigation during the transit.

[Tampa Girl]

15 minutes ago, gatour said:

Someone posted a link to the ports website.  On the page linked, it said "the port doesn't use any LOCAL funds for capital project" blah blah.  The capitalization is mine.  That implies that they may use state and federal funds for certain projects.  And I bet they can hit up Broward County for funds.  Jacksonville is busy deepening the St Johns river channel.  The first phases were funded with Federal and State dollars.  Late last year they threw out the number of dollars that the city/county (we have a consolidated gov't) need to provide.

 

I did some research,  Port Everglades received permission from the Corp of Engineers to deepen their port starting in 2021.  So yes the federal gov't does have pressure points that they can apply to "encourage" the governor/Broward county

 

Jacksonville has NS Mayport where two conventional powered carries were home ported along with destroyers.  Now it is hosting the east coast fleet of littoral ships along with a few others.  There is also NAS Jacksonville across town.  AS stands air station so it has big runway.

 

Someone mention Kings Bay.  I did some research and I don't think the channel is deep enough.  I believe subs leave and return on the surface.

 

Someone asked.  The closest airport to Kings Bay is Jacksonville International.

 

Jacksonville is already hosting three crew only NCL ships along with the Carnival ship that is home ported here.  The three NCL ships are utilizing various cargo terminal docks spread along the St Johns river.

 

As a resident of Jacksonville, I would have no issue if they decide to send either or both HAL ships here as long as they have a plan based on lessons learned from the Princess ship.

 

Thank you for all that research.  Perhaps some possibilities, hopefully.

[gatour]

2 minutes ago, AmBear said:

If you mean the port downtown, I think Mayport farther to the East away from the City would be a better location because of infections!

About Kingsbay, not sure of the depth there but those tridents even on the surface have a lot below the surface, so who knows???

In regards to the terminals.  NAS Jacksonville is south of Jax and is not a place where ships dock.

 

I think you are referring to Tallyrand as that is the closest cargo terminal to downtown.  That has historically a bulk cargo terminal.  NCL has been using that for one of their ships.  Then as you head east you pass by the Carnival cruise terminal which Carnival naturally has their ship docked. A bit farther, you have the relatively new Dames Point terminal.  This is a container terminal that NCL is also using.  On the other side of the Dames Point bridge you have the Dames Point Terminal, again a container terminal.  Then as you get closer to the St Johns river's outlet to the ocean NS Mayport.

 

The logical places for the HAL ships would be NS Mayport, Blount Island and Dames Point.

[whogo]

32 minutes ago, arabrab said:

that's about it...he did say that they are through canal and that everyone had to keep their drapes and verandah doors closed during canal passage

Ships in Antarctica have to limit outdoor lights to prevent bird strikes, the Panama might require the same.

[Copper10-8]

Look people (bear with me; talking to the involved state and local politicians here, from a soapbox no less) It's not that difficult! Oakland, CA showed you how it can be done through, as was already mentioned, a collaborative effort, what a concept! They - the two ships - are not just going to have their pax trounce into the FLL cruise terminal and into Ft. Lauderdale propper, Broward County, the state of Florida, and wherever else in the world they reside. Let's get real here!

 

There was a protocol established with Grand Princess! Learn from it and apply it! The vast majority of Grand Princess folks did their quarantine period and are now home. Quit the B.S.ing, get your caca and your heads together, and get it done, for peete's sake! These are your fellow human beings on Zaandam and Rotterdam we're talking about here! Show us something positive for a change!

Edited March 30, 2020 by Copper10-8

[drowelf]

I might have missed it in this forum, as its quite active, but what caused the PCA to reverse their decision on allowing the Zaandam to transit the Canal? 

[rabidstoat]

48 minutes ago, gatour said:

I just came up with one theory.  While the locks are lit up like a Christmas tree, Gatun lake etc are not.  Having the lights off and the drapes close would help with navigation during the transit.

 

Yeah, I had a forward suite on a NCL ship once, and it was very near the bridge. I had to keep outdoor lights off and drapes closed at night when we were sailing so as not to adversely affect the bridge crew.

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, drowelf said:

I might have missed it in this forum, as its quite active, but what caused the PCA to reverse their decision on allowing the Zaandam to transit the Canal? 

 

There was some government pressure applied, and not just from the U.S/, but from at least two foreign countries. I won't name them but one with always friendly/helpful folks with a border to the north of the U.S., and the other, a tiny country in Western Europe known for tulips, windmills and clogs