Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[Max2003]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:19 AM, Max2003 said:

On the west side of Cuba, in about 40 hours they will still have options. If things don't work out, I would look seriously at Galveston (already familiar with cruise ship ops).  Not far from Lackland (used before) and Fort Hood.  

 

They expect that these ships will keep coming toward Florida without a port that has given permission to dock while they ruminate??  Insane!!  The time to make a decision is dwindling to about 15 hours .  They are basically delaying until Thursday to make a decision.  Galveston is looking better all the time if they can get approval. My guess is that HAL already knows if that is feasible.   It might mean a little more time at sea but a port that might welcome them.  The culture in Texas is in their favor.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Max2003

[tgg]

I listened to the meeting and understood that they will make a decision based on a plan that Carnival must submit. Did I miss something?

[dockman]

 

It seems to me that  a hearing such as this would start off with the premise ..."there are people in distress off of our coast, some are americans, some are not....but we as Floridians will come together and we will formulate a plan to help these people....we as Floridians have been helped get through hurricane disasters time and time again and it is now our turn to help our fellow human beings".

 

 

We Floridians are blessed with living in one of the best states in one of the richest countries in the world. 

 

Let's not see a "man overboard" and sit and argue about how or why he got there, where he is from, whether we might get sued, paid,reelected, praised or criticized.  Throw the man a life buoy. It is the American thing to do.  It is the right thing to do.

 

                                     Or as JFK said  “For of those to whom much is given much is required.” 

  

 

[DFD1]

Dockman,  I think you're right.  That's the way it SHOULD be.

[ajstahle]

 

Let's not see a "man overboard" and sit and argue about how or why he got there, where he is from, whether we might get sued, paid,reelected, praised or criticized.  Throw the man a life buoy. It is the American thing to do.  It is the right thing to do.

 

Dockman, your analogy is spot on.  We pray for those in peril on the sea.

[purrlinda]

9 minutes ago, dockman said:

 

It seems to me that  a hearing such as this would start off with the premise ..."there are people in distress off of our coast, some are americans, some are not....but we as Floridians will come together and we will formulate a plan to help these people....we as Floridians have been helped get through hurricane disasters time and time again and it is now our turn to help our fellow human beings".

 

 

We Floridians are blessed with living in one of the best states in one of the richest countries in the world. 

 

Let's not see a "man overboard" and sit and argue about how or why he got there, where he is from, whether we might get sued, paid,reelected, praised or criticized.  Throw the man a life buoy. It is the American thing to do.  It is the right thing to do.

 

                                     Or as JFK said  “For of those to whom much is given much is required.” 

  

 

Dockman, have you heard from your brother in recent days?

[LMaxwell]

29 minutes ago, StLouisCruisers said:

Leave it until the last second, then expect chartered planes to be ready Thursday afternoon.   Right...

 

On the other hand; it is unknown on Tuesday afternoon what the status of hospitals will be even on Thursday. If the ship arrives to port they can still do a staggered and delayed debarkation like with Grand Princess in Oakland. And until permission IS granted, chartering planes is difficult I will admit 

[conwakr]

1 minute ago, LMaxwell said:

 

On the other hand; it is unknown on Tuesday afternoon what the status of hospitals will be even on Thursday. If the ship arrives to port they can still do a staggered and delayed debarkation like with Grand Princess in Oakland. And until permission IS granted, chartering planes is difficult I will admit 

Were you thinking the international countries would send in charter planes for their sick internationals?  I'm alittle confused by the posts about charter planes.  The nonsick can get flights out of MIA - there are still regular international direct flights out of MIA. 

[Copper10-8]

30 minutes ago, Max2003 said:

 

They expect that these ships will keep coming toward Florida without a port that has given permission to dock while they ruminate??  Insane!!  The time to make a decision is dwindling to about 15 hours .  They are basically delaying until Thursday to make a decision.  Galveston is looking better all the time if they can get approval. My guess is that HAL already knows if that is feasible.   It might mean a little more time at sea but a port that might welcome them.  The culture in Texas is in their favor.

 

They will continue on their way to FLL via the Florida Straits with an expected ETA of Thu, 02 Apr 20. Sounds like they will have to wait outside U.S. territorial waters, so twelve miles off-shore, until the Broward County Commision, as well as the Broward County Unified Command, will vote on a plan of action involving the ships and their pax/crew. That plan is currently being worked on by the County Attorney staff who stated he "will need at least one full day" to get it done. It sounded promising with the possible exception of County Commissioners Bogen who appeared to be overthinking the entire issue - just my opinion on the last; give me two minutes to put my kevlar on 🙃

Edited March 31, 2020 by Copper10-8

[Seasick Sailor]

@Copper10-8 02 Apr 20

[bluesea321]

4 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

They will continue on their way to FLL via the Florida Straits with an expected ETA of Thu, 02 Mar 20. Sounds like they will have to wait outside U.S. territorial waters, so twelve miles off-shore, until the Broward County Commision, as well as the Broward County Unified Command, will vote on a plan of action involving the ships and their pax/crew. That plan is currently being worked on by the County Attorney staff who stated he "will need at least one full day" to get it done. It sounded promising with the possible exception of County Commissioners Bogen who appeared to be overthinking the entire issue - just my opinion on the last; give me two minutes to put my kevlar on 🙃

 

What constitutes the Unified Command?  Is the CDC, Coast Guard, etc. involved?  Who has the ultimate decision?  Not clear to me.

Edited March 31, 2020 by bluesea321

[iancal]

Does the  Federal Gov't have any say in this?  Appears to be very quiet on that side or are they working behind the scenes.

Edited March 31, 2020 by iancal

[capriccio]

2 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

What constitutes the Unified Command?  Is the CDC, Coast Guard, etc. involved?  Who has the ultimate decision?  Not clear to me.

Post #1331 lists it or see the Zaandam update at www.porteverglades.net.

[dockman]

10 minutes ago, purrlinda said:

Dockman, have you heard from your brother in recent days?

yesterday...he and wife are now on rotterdam and very happy to be there...said it is great as ship is super clean...they had been in their room on Zdam for long time obviously no room stewards cleaning though they did get fresh towels / sheets etc...they are fingers crossed that they get off ship soon...they have no idea if they will be quarantined or flown home and are anxiously awaiting news..

 

i have not heard from him today for first time in long time...i suspect they are all sitting and waiting to learn their fate....they are healthy and trying their best to keep calm.

 

thank u for asking.

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

What constitutes the Unified Command?  Is the CDC, Coast Guard, etc. involved?  Who has the ultimate decision?  Not clear to me.

 

A unified command is widely used in police work, as well as in the fire service. It is basically a combined incident command system where in the manager and supervisors of different services or units come together and form a "unified command" to deal with a serious issue. That way, all the various components to solve that issue are already present, and don't have to be contacted one at a time to fulfil requests needed for "problem solving." The concept has been around for a while. I remember working it as a Patrol sergeant in my prior career. It comes in very handy to the incident commander and "lightens his/her load" tremendously. The ultimate decision rests with that incident commander 

[rkacruiser]

5 minutes ago, capriccio said:

Post #1331 lists it or see the Zaandam update at www.porteverglades.net.

 

And, that is a long list of the entities that need to be aboard.  

 

 

[Vict0riann]

4 minutes ago, dockman said:

yesterday...he and wife are now on rotterdam and very happy to be there...said it is great as ship is super clean...they had been in their room on Zdam for long time obviously no room stewards cleaning though they did get fresh towels / sheets etc...they are fingers crossed that they get off ship soon...they have no idea if they will be quarantined or flown home and are anxiously awaiting news..

 

i have not heard from him today for first time in long time...i suspect they are all sitting and waiting to learn their fate....they are healthy and trying their best to keep calm.

 

thank u for asking.

Hoping and praying that the whole ship remains clean and healthy!

[purrlinda]

10 minutes ago, dockman said:

yesterday...he and wife are now on rotterdam and very happy to be there...said it is great as ship is super clean...they had been in their room on Zdam for long time obviously no room stewards cleaning though they did get fresh towels / sheets etc...they are fingers crossed that they get off ship soon...they have no idea if they will be quarantined or flown home and are anxiously awaiting news..

 

i have not heard from him today for first time in long time...i suspect they are all sitting and waiting to learn their fate....they are healthy and trying their best to keep calm.

 

thank u for asking.

My people, though not exhibiting any signs of illness, were left on the Zaandam.  I am beside myself to hear this.  They were moved from their ocean view room to something with a balcony this morning.  I have been trying to get in touch with them via phone.  Their children are incredibly frustrated and scared and have been getting very little info from the emergency line.  I am so glad to hear that your brother and his wife were able to be moved without issue.

 

I know that the rest of the wait will be anxious for all.  Thank you for the update.

[Max2003]

21 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

They will continue on their way to FLL via the Florida Straits with an expected ETA of Thu, 02 Apr 20. Sounds like they will have to wait outside U.S. territorial waters, so twelve miles off-shore, until the Broward County Commision, as well as the Broward County Unified Command, will vote on a plan of action involving the ships and their pax/crew. That plan is currently being worked on by the County Attorney staff who stated he "will need at least one full day" to get it done. It sounded promising with the possible exception of County Commissioners Bogen who appeared to be overthinking the entire issue - just my opinion on the last; give me two minutes to put my kevlar on 🙃

 

 Sounds like trying to draw an inside straight.  Isn't it still a unanimous decision??   Two different entities (and votes) by Commission and Unified Command (aka - Joint powers Authority). 

 

There Thursday, but 12 miles offshore hoping for a group of self preservation politicians to decide if the plan is perfect.  I would hope we can get better odds.  If it falls thru, then where, Port Canaveral, Jacksonville or ?  They are then committed to east coast of Florida and north.  

[Copper10-8]

1 minute ago, Barney10 said:

The US is not the only country in the world that ever helps anybody. How soon we forget, Nineteen years ago, this small Canadian town on an island in the North Atlantic Ocean took in nearly 6,700 people – almost doubling its population – when the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in New York and Washington forced 38 planes to land here.   

 

Who can forget the people of Gander, Newfoundland and what they did to the pax and crews of all those flights? Heartwarming! 

 

 

 

[Copper10-8]

1 minute ago, Boatdrill said:

 

Since prior medevac requests of critically ill people have been denied (example Zaandam), could it be that the Crown's captain came into port withholding the info to be sure the sick crew members would be taken off ?   

And he's willing to take the heat for it.  

 

Certainly, that's a possibility!

[rkacruiser]

13 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Perhaps this helps.......

 

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/what-is-a-flag-of-convenience-31395

 

Yes, it would help those who don't understand the reason for such flagging.  If, they chose to read it.  (Lots of words, you know!)

[rafinmd]

15 minutes ago, tascoa said:

I realize the US is the only country in the world that ever helps anybody. That’s  a given fact.  It’s just in these times of crisis maybe somebody else needs to step up to the plate.  

Really?

 

2 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Who can forget the people of Gander, Newfoundland and what they did to the pax and crews of all those flights? Heartwarming! 

 

 

 

And January 27, 1980 in Tehran.

 

Roy

[Floridiana]

dockman, I'll cross my fingers for them and all the other passengers.

[Vict0riann]

2 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Who can forget the people of Gander, Newfoundland and what they did to the pax and crews of all those flights? Heartwarming! 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Copper!  DD's boyfriend was one of the cooks - he had gone in to work (ATC), but as they had a full complement, he was sent off - he's a great cook, DD is very lucky.😀