Azamara requiring letter/ form from physician...Bonnie.(merged)

[Grandma Cruising]

5 hours ago, uktog said:

I do not see any change in requirements regarding the health form and the wording is still so broad we will not be able to get it signed, so our RCL cruising days look like they will be over for a long time if not for ever come August.   As our insurance company is happy we can travel based on their criteria we will look for other travel opportunities and cruiselines if possible.  Oh well, never had that down as a problem of “old age” so early in our retirement years but it’s happened. 

 

I did wonder how many guests in the promotion video (either speaking to camera or in the background) won’t be able to continue likewise. 

No but it does include the extension of the expiration of complimentary nights to 1 January 2022, which midwestchick was asking about.

[uktog]

35 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

No but it does include the extension of the expiration of complimentary nights to 1 January 2022, which midwestchick was asking about.

Agreed, but this thread is about the letter as well so I believe my comments were fully justified.  Until the cruise line understands no UK GP will sign such a blanket document they are not going to get many bookings from that important section of their market.  We might have booked using from future cruise credits rather than flipping to refunds but as there is this condition we know cannot be met, we would not be covered by our insurers for cancellation costs down the line.

[travelordie]

16 minutes ago, uktog said:

Agreed, but this thread is about the letter as well so I believe my comments were fully justified.  Until the cruise line understands no UK GP will sign such a blanket document they are not going to get many bookings from that important section of their market.  We might have booked using from future cruise credits rather than flipping to refunds but as there is this condition we know cannot be met, we would not be covered by our insurers for cancellation costs down the line.

I agree completely.  My physician will not sign such a letter nor do I intend to jeopardize my relationship with him by attempting to coerce him to sign it.  I would certainly not sign it if I were in his position.  Fortunately, there are many cruise lines which have not adopted this policy of selective unfairness to those over 70 so if the policy is not reversed by the time my final payment is due, I will simply cancel my Azamara cruise.

[Bigdogwon]

Why is it so difficult too have a simple question answered?  We want to know if the letter from your GP is required! That is all!

[uktog]

Looks like we have the answer from elsewhere (and yes it had changed some time ago re CLIA but the link cannot be posted but part of the text is

 

Following a swirl of rumors online about policies guests can expect once cruising resumes, Royal Caribbean spoke briefly to travel agents about the issue of guests needing a doctor's note in order cruise.

Royal Caribbean Senior Vice President of Sales and Trade Support & Service Vicki Freed spoke at the beginning of her webinar by addressing the need for a letter from a doctor for guests who are 70 years old or older, or have a pre-existing chronic medical condition.

"We found out that CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association) did actually change this requirement on April 3rd. So a health form is no longer required for those travelers ages 70 plus, nor are there restrictions for those guests with underlying health conditions."

"In our current environment, everything can change at a moment's notice, so this is very fluid. But as of today, there are no requirements for doctor's notes."

"We are working on our return to service protocols, and they may look very different in the next couple weeks or months. Until that's finalized, we can't say for sure this is never going to happen, but we will keep you informed."

Edited April 29, 2020 by uktog

[BBMacLaird]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:24 AM, midwestchick said:

Because of their new guidelines I will lose my free days which I think is really unfair.  

 

14 hours ago, midwestchick said:

No news?  I didn’t see anything Bonnie.

 

The extension of earned Loyalty Benefits, specifically Earned Complimentary Nights, includes the below. 

I'm not sure why this isn't spelled out when you click the link. I'll let the office there is a kink in the link!

 

§  If you previously redeemed complimentary nights on an affected voyage scheduled to sail before June 11, 2020, we will extend the expiration of your complimentary nights through January 1, 2022. 

 

§  If your voyage wasn’t affected by the current situation, but you have active complimentary nights expiring between March 6, 2020 and October 31,2020, we will extend the expiration of your complimentary nights through January 1, 2022. 

 

§  Extended complimentary nights must be used on a new future Azamara voyage departing on or before April 30, 2022.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

45 minutes ago, uktog said:

Looks like we have the answer from elsewhere (and yes it had changed some time ago re CLIA but the link cannot be posted but part of the text is

 

Following a swirl of rumors online about policies guests can expect once cruising resumes, Royal Caribbean spoke briefly to travel agents about the issue of guests needing a doctor's note in order cruise.

Royal Caribbean Senior Vice President of Sales and Trade Support & Service Vicki Freed spoke at the beginning of her webinar by addressing the need for a letter from a doctor for guests who are 70 years old or older, or have a pre-existing chronic medical condition.

"We found out that CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association) did actually change this requirement on April 3rd. So a health form is no longer required for those travelers ages 70 plus, nor are there restrictions for those guests with underlying health conditions."

"In our current environment, everything can change at a moment's notice, so this is very fluid. But as of today, there are no requirements for doctor's notes."

"We are working on our return to service protocols, and they may look very different in the next couple weeks or months. Until that's finalized, we can't say for sure this is never going to happen, but we will keep you informed."

 

As of today.....And why wasn't anything said earlier if CLIA removed the requirement Apr 3. Could this be a way to get over 70s to book more cruises and take FCCs for cancelled cruises. No guarantee it won't be required next week or when ships start sailing. I'm hopeful that it won't be but as it says "As of today it's not required".   Link below

 

Update about No Dr's Note Required as of 4/29/20

Edited April 29, 2020 by suzyluvs2cruise

[Grandma Cruising]

19 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

As of today.....And why wasn't anything said earlier if CLIA removed the requirement Apr 3. Could this be a way to get over 70s to book more cruises and take FCCs for cancelled cruises. No guarantee it won't be required next week or when ships start sailing. I'm hopeful that it won't be but as it says "As of today it's not required".   Link below

 

Update about No Dr's Note Required as of 4/29/20

That’s RCCL, but Azamara’s website says it’s still required (FAQ’s in the latest travel advisory dated 16 April)

[uktog]

7 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

That’s RCCL, but Azamara’s website says it’s still required (FAQ’s in the latest travel advisory dated 16 April)

So why would Azamara have more demanding requirements than RCCL?  And we all Azamara’s website. 🙄 

They started the requirements together as a group position. 
 

Edited April 29, 2020 by uktog

[suzyluvs2cruise]

6 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

That’s RCCL, but Azamara’s website says it’s still required (FAQ’s in the latest travel advisory dated 16 April)

 

Possibly Azamara's website hasn't been updated. I would think all 3 brands under the RCC umbrella would have the same guidelines/restrictions. 

[Grandma Cruising]

1 minute ago, uktog said:

So why would Azamara have more demanding requirements than RCCL?  And we all Azamara’s website. 🙄 

They started the requirements together as a group position. 
 

I agree, but their websites show different positions at the moment, it would seem. Seems likely that Azamara have yet to change their wording, but I wouldn’t take it as read until I saw it on the website.

[BBMacLaird]

This is all happening 'in real time'...meaning right now!

The 70+ doctor letter requirement is being updated/removed, probably tonight, on our website. 

Stay tuned!

[travelordie]

1 hour ago, uktog said:

 

 

 

"We found out that CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association) did actually change this requirement on April 3rd. So a health form is no longer required for those travelers ages 70 plus, nor are there restrictions for those guests with underlying health conditions."

 

What I find interesting here is that all other CLIA cruise lines, with the exception of the RCCL subsidiaries (Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean) removed  the requirement for a physician's letter for travelers aged 70 or older on April 3rd or shortly thereafter.  It seems that either CLIA failed to inform RCCL or RCCL lost the communication from CLIA.  Either way, the sentence "We found out that CLIA did actually change this requirement on April 3rd. " raises the question of why there was no action whatsoever between April 3rd and April 29th.

 

Now that RCCL took the first baby step of informing their travel agents that the restriction has been lifted, let's hope that they immediately update the websites as the requirement still appears on the Azamara and Celebrity websites.

[uktog]

45 minutes ago, BBMacLaird said:

This is all happening 'in real time'...meaning right now!

The 70+ doctor letter requirement is being updated/removed, probably tonight, on our website. 

Stay tuned!

Yes the text is updated now, thanks - the form is still there so hopefully that link can also go soon.  Shame the email went out yesterday and not today!

Edited April 29, 2020 by uktog

[blag]

I may be a suspicious old goat, but to me it seems that the revised wording doesn't actually state that Azamara is removing this requirement. What it says is: While subject to change, via the Cruise Lines International Association, we have confirmed that the previous restrictions were lifted in early April after cruise lines suspended service

 

That does not explicitly state that Azamara are lifting the restriction. The stuff I saw herein via the link to RCCL, is much the same. It may well be that this is implied, but for avoidance of doubt, I feel that the wording should state unequivocally that Azamara will not require the doctor's certificate/letter/form. 

[jelayne]

Looks like this requirement is going away.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/itinerary-updates

 

See the 2nd part of this update.

Edited April 30, 2020 by jelayne

[Host Jazzbeau]

Wow, I remember not very long ago when folks on various Cruise Critic forums were beating up any cruise line that hadn't taken the most draconian approach to the virus at the earliest possible date.  Now Azamara is being beaten up for not updating their website about this issue – even though there are no cruises sailing.  Think about how your life has been affected by home lock-down – and now imagine how that affects IT website folks who have fancy computer workstations at work and probably puny laptops at home.

[blag]

3 hours ago, jelayne said:

Looks like this requirement is going away.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/itinerary-updates

 

See the 2nd part of this update.

Please see my post 140 immediately above yours. In my opinion, as a student of the law for many years, what RCL is saying is ambiguous.

 

Ask yourself this question:

Are RCL removing the requirement, or merely acknowledging that CLIA have lifted this restriction?

 

Whilst the answer may be implied, that wouldn't hold water in any court. It would be too easy for RCL to say "We haven't said that we are removing this restriction Yes, the CLIA have removed it, but we feel that the safety of the passengers on our ships is of paramount importance, and so we are going to continue this restriction"

 

It may be nit-picking. The staff at all cruise lines may be working from home using smoke signals for communication, but IMHO the wording really should not leave any room for doubt. This information is of great importance to many, many cruisers.

[excitedofharpenden]

blag, you are over complicating it. Your nit picking isn't helpful. 

 

Phil 

[blag]

9 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

blag, you are over complicating it. Your nit picking isn't helpful. 

 

Phil 

OK

[Etta1213]

BLAG, I see your point. Am hoping the letter, etc, go away, especially for us oldies. We don't have years to waste not cruising. I want to get back to it as soon as reasonably safe.

[midwestchick]

22 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

BLAG, I see your point. Am hoping the letter, etc, go away, especially for us oldies. We don't have years to waste not cruising. I want to get back to it as soon as reasonably safe.

Ditto.  But we are still debating Azamara.  Our loyalty to them doesn’t seem to matter. Who wants to tie up thousands on a cruise that probably will not happen and only to possibly have them put the restrictions back on?   I know in my heart our August Baltic cruise will be canceled.  
 

 

[blag]

36 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

BLAG, I see your point. Am hoping the letter, etc, go away, especially for us oldies. We don't have years to waste not cruising. I want to get back to it as soon as reasonably safe.

 

10 minutes ago, midwestchick said:

Ditto.  But we are still debating Azamara.  Our loyalty to them doesn’t seem to matter. Who wants to tie up thousands on a cruise that probably will not happen and only to possibly have them put the restrictions back on?   I know in my heart our August Baltic cruise will be canceled.  
 

 

 

So, perhaps I'm not over-complicating it?

[uktog]

What’s wrong with the wording?  You are over complicating things. 

All aspects of your cruising contract is subject to change. They cannot categorically say x will or will not happen as the decisions maybe outwith their hands.  
What I don’t want to see is Azamara having rules that others see unnecessary so we have ships allowing people onboard and ships not.  But I accept rules, probably driven by countries/ port authorities may still exist.  I just hope country rules cover airlines as well, they are a far greater risk than the cruise itself. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by uktog

[blag]

5 minutes ago, uktog said:

What’s wrong with the wording?  You are over complicating things. 

All aspects of your cruising contract is subject to change. They cannot categorically say x will or will not happen as the decisions maybe outwith their hands.  
What I don’t want to see is Azamara having rules that others see unnecessary so we have ships allowing people onboard and ships not.  But I accept rules, probably driven by countries/ port authorities may still exist.  I just hope country rules cover airlines as well, they are a far greater risk than the cruise itself. 

 

Of course, both you and excitedofharpenden are right. Of that there can be no doubt.

 

I am just wondering why RCL and Azamara don't just say "From today we no longer require over-70's to provide health form signed by.... "?